Slow off the floor with deadlifts.

[Pabs]

Hello everyone.

I'm looking for a bit of advice with a problem I have with deadlifting. I seem to have trouble from the floor to the knee part of the deadlift when I get to my heavier weights. Once up to my knees it comes up easily and I can lift a lot more doing rack pulls from the knee than I can doing full ROM.

I suspect my hamstrings are a large part of the problem here as my legs are pretty undeveloped and weak compared to my back/upperbody. (No, not from being a "curl monkey" etc , rather from a physical disability I once had)

I was told that deficit deadlifts could help with this. I already do stiff-legged deadlifts as part of my routine, would deficits be better for me?

Someone also mentioned power cleans could help. (The problem here is I workout at a commercial gym who frowns on "loud noise", ie. weights clanging).

Anyone have any ideas/advice? Anything would be much appreciated as it's frustrating knowing I'm strong for one part of the motion but weak in the other. Cheers.

[drizzt]

I'm the complete opposite to you - terrible, terrible lockout, but I can get any weight I've ever tried above the knee before hitting an impenetrable wall where I can't break the bar through - which is unfortunate for me, but maybe can help for you in that I can shed a little light on it.

I've always been told to exert the same amount of force on a 100kg deadlift than I would exert on a max effort deadlift. I treat everything like 300kg and it really helps with that mindset to break it quick off the floor. Mentally you need to think speed, pull it as if you were going to throw it back over your head (well, not literally, but with that intent off the floor). I think Benny Magnusson says - Speed is King. So true, and sounds simple but if you think about doing it, it will make a difference :nod:

When my speed dropped after I took a little break, deficit deads very quickly got it back where it was. In fact, I felt just as strong from the deficit position than I did from the floor - maybe start with a small deficit, and increase it gradually as you get more comfortable with it. Definitely worth a try though.

I think when I initially started to train deadilft a couple of years ago, deads to the knees Sheiko-style (i.e. deadlift to an inch below the knee, pause for 1 second, complete the lift) gave me a good boost of speed to start with.

[nate225]

Agree re: deficit advice. Mainly 2" deficits, as 4"+ seems to bust up the groove too much and I didnt feel helped me a lot.

I kinda think that most people should miss a weight below the knees when it gets too heavy (LOL Drizzt! :grin: ) as if you can pull fast the momentums there & all you have to do is drive the hips through. Easier said than done sometimes I know (hitching etc) butits about getting the "midnight manuvere" going early on after it hits mid shin.

Anyway - hit the deficits bro! GHR's will help the hammies as much as anything too, but I suspect your focus might be better served on driving fast off the floor THROUGH the HEELS.

Just my 10 cents! :grin:

[Pabs]

Thanks, Drizzt. Much appreciated.

Hmmm, the more I think about it the more the mindset of "speed, speed, speed" could be a huge help. If I'm honest with myself part of the problem could be psychological. Sometimes I'll look at the weight and think "Good lord....this is going to be tough." so I'm probably partially defeating myself right from the get go.

From now on I'll endeavour to think of the higher weights as I do with the lower ones. "It's in my way and has to moved."

I think I'll definitely try some deficits as well. Thanks again for the advice, have a good one.

[Pabs]

Thanks Nate. Agreed, I'm trying to focus on the drive your heels through the floor thing.

One thing I've noticed about myself deadlifting as well. A lot of people scrape their shins/knees regularly. I hardly ever do. At all. This makes me wonder if my technique/form is off a bit. Not that I want to scrape my skin off for the hell of it but it seems weird that I never really do whereas most seem to. *shrug*

*Edit due to brain being a numbnuts and refusing to spell correctly.

[drizzt]

No probs bro, all the best with it.

I kinda think that most people should miss a weight below the knees when it gets too heavy (LOL Drizzt! :grin: ) as if you can pull fast the momentums there & all you have to do is drive the hips through. Easier said than done sometimes I know (hitching etc) butits about getting the "midnight manuvere" going early on after it hits mid shin.

Haha! :grin:

But yeah, definitely agree, more a mental thing with me (thinking about engaging the hips earlier) and haven't had time to work on it since earlier on in the year. Mike Zero gave me some good advice re: bands a while back, have some on the way from Iron Woody so hopefully I'll see the deadlift increase quickly!

[Pabs]

One more question guys. If I'm implementing deficit deadlifts, should I do these instead of conventional or just as an added extra exercise?

[nate225]

One more question guys. If I'm implementing deficit deadlifts, should I do these instead of conventional or just as an added extra exercise?

Alternate between the two, week about.

[Pabs]

One more question guys. If I'm implementing deficit deadlifts, should I do these instead of conventional or just as an added extra exercise?

Alternate between the two, week about.

Awesome, thanks for that.

[Big john]

I'm the complete opposite to you - terrible, terrible lockout, but I can get any weight I've ever tried above the knee before hitting an impenetrable wall where I can't break the bar through - which is unfortunate for me, but maybe can help for you in that I can shed a little light on it.

I kinda think that most people should miss a weight below the knees when it gets too heavy (LOL Drizzt! :grin: ) as if you can pull fast the momentums there & all you have to do is drive the hips through. Easier said than done sometimes I know (hitching etc) butits about getting the "midnight manuvere" going early on after it hits mid shin.

i think alot of the problem with people having lockout problems is steming from imo doing a "shrug" like manuvere (more so in the double over hand lifters)to lock out the bar instead of rolling the shoulders back, i find when i roll the shoulders back the hips come thru better

if you want to lock out heavy deadlifts you must do heavy lockout deadlifts

-deads againest bands

-reverse band deads

-rack pulls from inch below knee

just my 2c

[drizzt]

True bro - I'm not sure the overhand/hook has a lot to do with it in my case, as it was just as bad when I used to alternate my grip :pfft: In saying that, food for thought and something to be aware of, cheers :nod:

[Pabs]

I tried deficit deadlifts for the first time today (feet on plates, so about 2.5 inches maybe?). I like them.

I took the advice given on here and tried to keep a speed mindset, treat the lifts like comp lifts etc etc. It really does seem to help. The weights definitely seemed to be moving up a lot faster.

As the weights got heavier the speed was still pretty good until I got to my last set of 190kg x3. This was one hell of a grind. Speed was pretty much non-existent here and just pure stubborness and my son yelling at me got them up to the knees where I could then lock out easily enough.

After analyzing the lifts I decided my main problem with the 190's was I got lazy, lost focus and really didn't try to drive through the floor with my heels. If I'm honest my weight was probably far too forward on the balls of my feet. Live and learn.

Thanks again for the advice guys, looking forward to the improvements.

[Dr Squat]

In my experience, speed off the floor is often a result of a poor starting position i.e. straightening the legs before the bar even moves. If you can, post up a video.

[Pabs]

In my experience, speed off the floor is often a result of a poor starting position i.e. straightening the legs before the bar even moves. If you can, post up a video.

I know that when I first started deadlifting I tended to straighten my legs too early and was basically turned the lift into a glorified goodmorning or stiff-legged deadlift. I've been working on that a lot and think I pretty much have it nailed now. I could be wrong however.

I'll get my son to take a video on our next session which should be next Friday. Then I'll have to figure out how to post the damn thing. I'm pretty much a computer/internet numbnuts.

[startinfromscratch]

In my experience, speed off the floor is often a result of a poor starting position i.e. straightening the legs before the bar even moves. If you can, post up a video.

this ^^ x 1000

alot of the time people who stall at or above knee height mistakenly think they need lockout work, when actually the problem is that they compromised their form for speed off the floor.

take video from directly side on, and look at stills of your hip/back position at 2 points: when the bar leaves the floor, and at knee height. if your start position is good, but your knees are locked out/extended by the time its at knees, usually means a weakness in the pos. chain and that youve broken it off the floor with your back strength and taken your legs out of it.

just my 2c 8)

[Big john]

the lift into a glorified goodmorning or stiff-legged deadlift

pretty much how i deadlift

[Pabs]

take video from directly side on, and look at stills of your hip/back position at 2 points: when the bar leaves the floor, and at knee height. if your start position is good, but your knees are locked out/extended by the time its at knees, usually means a weakness in the pos. chain and that youve broken it off the floor with your back strength and taken your legs out of it.

just my 2c 8)

Hmmm, the more I think about it, you could be right. My legs are definitely my glaring weakness due to prior injuries etc and I may well be trying to compensate by using my back far earlier than I should be. I'll get a video as soon as possible and take a gander. Cheers mate.

[The Legend Killer]

Yeah, I have dodgy knees and I found that I have to use knee wraps, otherwise I compensate for my knees with my back too much, which isn't good.