Non Sanctioned Regional Meets Rule

[bar-belle]

With the introduction of a new powerlifting fed in NZ I have been doing a bit of research into being a NZPF registered lifter and lifting in non IPF sanctioned events at a regional level.

This effects not only myself but several CBC members and probably quite a few others around NZ that may wish to lift for the new fed but are concerned about being banned from NZPF. I think that we all need to be informed so that we can make any decisions regarding the two federations in NZ based on accurate information rather than heresay and supposition. So this is what I have discovered on http://www.powerliftingwatch.com some American lifters had the same question that I did.

Clarification Of New IPF Rule Change IPF rule 14.9:

Brad Madvig offers some clarification at the USAPL forum on the IPF rule which bans lifters who compete in non-sanctioned IPF events.

The rule :

Any lifter, coach, referee or official who competes or participates in a Powerlifting or Bench Press competition not organised, sanctioned or approved by the IPF shall not be permitted to take part in any IPF international or regional competition for a period of 12 months from the date of that non-approved competition.

Here's what Madvig says:

Most of the calls and emails I have gotten where from local lifters who where concerned that since they have competed in non USAPL events in their area that their status with the USAPL was in jeopardy.

I have since made some calls regarding this subject and found the following information. This rule was in creation from the IPF congress WAS NOT intended to be aimed at or enforced on the local level what so ever. It was only to intend for International events that where not IPF sanctioned for which International lifters compete in. Some confusion has occurred on how this rule is being interpreted in the IPF . The matter is being worked out.

So if I was a local lifter who wanted to compete at a non sanctioned event I would go ahead and do so. From my research the leadership of the USAPL is going to make it clear to the IPF that applying such rules on the local level would make no sense and would be almost impossible to enforce.

We should expect some more information on this coming in the near future.

Jeff Butt, president of the Canadian Powerlifting Union (Canadian affiliate of the IPF) offers his interpretation:

The interpretation I got is that it is at the International level only. So you could lift locally but not on an International stage with another Federation. I will verify this and ask about when it is in effect.

I have also emailed the president of NZPF asking for his clarification in writing and Emmanuel Scheiber Secretary General IPF for clarification as well. If this it to be the case NZPF will have to allow this as they must follow the IPF rules strictly

Watch this space!

[red machine]

niiice digging, if you stick to the ipf testing rules and what not they should just let you lift in any comp you want as its not affecting them in anyway, plus it would prob help them keep some lifters who may be tempted to new beginnings....

[tomleegolf]

What was the reasoning behind IPF creating this rule in the first place?

[EESSSPEEE]

Im not expert on NZPF regs and constitution, but independently of any IPF rule you have to follow teh NZPF regs and constitution (if such things exist) as a NZPF member. Maybe someone who knows whats what with NZPF can respond.

In Australia, as a PA member, you can only lift in PA or IPF sanctioned events. This is not derived from the IPF rule, but from conditions within the PA regulations.

[EESSSPEEE]

What was the reasoning behind IPF creating this rule in the first place?

Its a difficult question to answer.

Here is a "general picture" ansdwer based on my limited understanding.

In most countries that participate in powerlifting there is only one federation that has government recognition. Other feds exist, but typically without official government endorsement or support. That fed is the IPF. I think at the higher levels of the sport it is generally accepted that unification is the best scenario for powerlifting and multiple feds is unproductive and undermines the sport. In view of this the IPF has drawn a line at the upper levels (international events) and said either you are IPF or not IPF. Thats my understanding anyway. It flows on from the belief that multiple feds is not a good thing and that non-tested feds are not a good thing. Not good in terms of the IPF's objectives and goals anyway- which is developing and building the sports recognition and professionalism.

In some countries- like Norway and Australia- this is taken further- often through developments at the government recognition process- that place limitations at the national level as well. I think it is often tied to a drug testing issues- I believe to address the problem where lifters lift in a tested fed- take a year off in the non-tested fed and then return. This is over-simplifying things, but it gives you the vibe.

[startinfromscratch]

well the nzpf constituition is available online, on restricted net atm or i would cut and paste.

The biggest thing that needs to come from these questions is the clarification from nzpf. Many people (actually just me) think that its highly likely that with lifters in nz actually having a choice now, they will make some form of amendment to their constitution to restrict thing just like P.A did.

probably already in motion.

[ThreeWhiteLights]

probably already in motion.

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

[steak]

probably already in motion.

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

As an Auckland Powerlifting Association Committee member Chris is this the APAs official stance?

[ThreeWhiteLights]

Nah just purely speculation. You will have to wait to here back from the NZPF Presidente

[steak]

IPF secretary general actually. He's very helpful

[EESSSPEEE]

The response I saw from the IPF secretary referred only to IPF rules. IPF rules are distinct and separate from NZPF or PA regulations etc.

One example of this is the rule for bench records in 3 lift. Under IPF rules you can bmb in squat but still claim a bench record so long as bonafide attempts are made in squat and deadlift. For PA the rule is different because there are no bench only records for PA.

The arguments go both ways. In Oz you could say the PA regulations limit choice. But choice for what? To lift in an untested fed without government accreditation? The choice to lift in a many feds with different rules doesn't necessarily help the sport at all. I know the arguments, just saying the requirement that its IPF or not IPF is motivated by the desire for unified, government supported and drug-tested PL.

With the creation of a new fed NZPF will have to decide how they address the issue. My hunch is also that they won't care much at all.

[BarBrother]

probably already in motion.

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

As an Auckland Powerlifting Association Committee member Chris is this the APAs official stance?

If you want apa official stance then that will come out as a decision via nzpf. Just because people are on committe should not stop them having a personal opinion.

Just getting tired of people being asked if this is official stance etc. it's personal opinion unless otherwise stated

[steak]

The official word back from the IPF

"If the competition is on national level, the NZPF is responsible to

decide if they allow it or not!

If it is on international level the IPF and OPF will be responsible

and there the By-Law 14.9 is valid!

You must only take care on national level that if there is a IPF

lifter competing, who competes also on international championships,

that for this person also the IPF By-Law 14.9 is valid!

That means an international NZPF lifter can not compete on national or

international championship which is not sanctioned by the NZPF or if

there are also non IPF or suspended IPF athletes!

The same situation will be at strong men competitions!

If a non NZPF lifter wants to join the NZPF it is in the hand of the

NZPF to decide it, if they allow it or not!"

Emanuel Scheiber

Secretary General IPF

We have asked the NZPF for their stance on this issue so we can let our NZPF lifters know where they stand, but nothing back yet and I cannot find anything in the online constitution.

[EESSSPEEE]

So basically if its international the IPF rules apply and if its at a local/national level the affiliate nation's rules/constitution/regulations apply.

So its up to NZPF to decide for local NZ comps.

[bar-belle]

I have had a reply from the NZPF president to my initial question. The following is his response.

"I recently sent an email to all the secretaries which may not have filtered down to the members yet. The gist of it is........

CAPO has made an appearance in NZ. Our constitution does not include any provision to prohibit lifters from competing in another Federation. However the IPF's does- and it makes it a legal nightmare to try and enforce something we have no grounds to. My experience in this area tells me that whenever there is a dispute of this nature the rules stop at our constitution. What may happen is if the IPF gets wind of any lifters competing in a non-IPF sanction event that another Federation runs and drug testing is not carried out, they may refuse any international nominations with that lifters name on them.

Ergo--lifters going in CAPO comps do at their own risk. Powerlifting Australia's constitution is more robust thans ours and being a legal company, has enforced this rule and sanction 7 lifters for a one year suspension.

If CAPO lifters want to compete in NZ comps--again we have no grounds to refuse except they would need to comply with our rules--esp. the one about going on the DFS programme.

In short, the NZPF won't take any action. My enquires to the IPF were met with vague replies which didn't really give clear direction on what action they would take..

Regards

Steve

[startinfromscratch]

I have had a reply from the NZPF president to my initial question. The following is his response.

"I recently sent an email to all the secretaries which may not have filtered down to the members yet. The gist of it is........

CAPO has made an appearance in NZ. Our constitution does not include any provision to prohibit lifters from competing in another Federation. However the IPF's does- and it makes it a legal nightmare to try and enforce something we have no grounds to. My experience in this area tells me that whenever there is a dispute of this nature the rules stop at our constitution. What may happen is if the IPF gets wind of any lifters competing in a non-IPF sanction event that another Federation runs and drug testing is not carried out, they may refuse any international nominations with that lifters name on them.

Ergo--lifters going in CAPO comps do at their own risk. Powerlifting Australia's constitution is more robust thans ours and being a legal company, has enforced this rule and sanction 7 lifters for a one year suspension.

If CAPO lifters want to compete in NZ comps--again we have no grounds to refuse except they would need to comply with our rules--esp. the one about going on the DFS programme.

In short, the NZPF won't take any action. My enquires to the IPF were met with vague replies which didn't really give clear direction on what action they would take..

Regards

Steve

quoted for awesome :clap:

[EESSSPEEE]

I have had a reply from the NZPF president to my initial question. The following is his response.

...What may happen is if the IPF gets wind of any lifters competing in a non-IPF sanction event that another Federation runs and drug testing is not carried out, they may refuse any international nominations with that lifters name on them...

quoted for awesome :clap:

Hmmmmm :naughty: :clap:

[startinfromscratch]

I have had a reply from the NZPF president to my initial question. The following is his response.

...What may happen is if the IPF gets wind of any lifters competing in a non-IPF sanction event that another Federation runs and drug testing is not carried out, they may refuse any international nominations with that lifters name on them...

quoted for awesome :clap:

Hmmmmm :naughty: :clap:

maybe i am understanding it wrong? does this not mean that the 95% of nzpf members that arent eligible/planning on competing internationally can lift at any pl comps without sanctions? or have i missed something????

[startinfromscratch]

probably already in motion.

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

after september, i will send you my bank account number bro.

[ThreeWhiteLights]

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

In short, the NZPF won't take any action.

after september, i will send you my bank account number bro.

Correct me if I am mistaken but doesn't that mean you owe me $5 :nod:

[startinfromscratch]

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

In short, the NZPF won't take any action.

after september, i will send you my bank account number bro.

Correct me if I am mistaken but doesn't that mean you owe me $5 :nod:

no, as you are not 100% aware as i am. bet will be settled after the comp...

[ThreeWhiteLights]

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

In short, the NZPF won't take any action.

after september, i will send you my bank account number bro.

Correct me if I am mistaken but doesn't that mean you owe me $5 :nod:

no, as you are not 100% aware as i am. bet will be settled after the comp...

IF any amendment is made to the NZPF constitution I don't think it would come into effect until the next calendar year so even after September I would still be right. This is just speculative however, inb4 steak asks if this is an official APA stance...

[startinfromscratch]

Correct me if I am mistaken but doesn't that mean you owe me $5 :nod:

no, as you are not 100% aware as i am. bet will be settled after the comp...

IF any amendment is made to the NZPF constitution I don't think it would come into effect until the next calendar year so even after September I would still be right. This is just speculative however, inb4 steak asks if this is an official APA stance...

well the thing is, they WILL take action against anyone that lifts in capo that wants to lift internationally under nzpf, so effectively your blanket statement

5 bucks says they will take no action against NZPF lifters lifting CAPO

is wrong. but i also have a gut feeling that before the comp even happens, there will be other spanners in the works....

[steak]

inb4 steak asks if this is an official APA stance..

quit with your pointless digs :roll: We've all been warned :naughty:

[Pseudonym]

Indeed you have been warned by the mods, and collectively our suspension fingers are starting to twitch. Let me be clear to both sides in this: if these digs continue, suspensions will result.