Thoughts on cycle for a 43 year old?

[musclenz]

You guys crack me up :pfft: 1ml EOD...how hard is that :roll:

[musclenz]

You guys crack me up :pfft: 1ml EOD...how hard is that :roll:

[HarryB]

You guys crack me up :pfft: 1ml EOD...how hard is that :roll:

I wouldn't do it now cos I am too much of a pussy...

This is what I don't get.... how come you so small? Like seriously? Was size not something you want or just bad genetics or what? You have a lot of knowledge and lots of ideas about application. I don't get it?

Only being a bit cheeky... here but seriously I know the most knowledgeable guys are rarely the biggest but I am just curious as to why that is.

[thatwaslight]

any more than 250mg on a first cycle and complete organ failure is likely and other irreversible side effects such as death

[HarryB]

any more than 250mg on a first cycle and complete organ failure is likely and other irreversible side effects such as death

Any less than 1.5gms and no gains at all and an affinity for party drugs, overindulgence and a general fear of success ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[thatwaslight]

any more than 250mg on a first cycle and complete organ failure is likely and other irreversible side effects such as death

Any less than 1.5gms and no gains at all and an affinity for party drugs, overindulgence and a general fear of success ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

what does me taking party drugs have to do with this argument? im on a gram maintaining 100kg and drunk a whole bottle of whiskey on sat night u mad? some of us have lives out side of pursuing plastic trophys

[thatwaslight]

any more than 250mg on a first cycle and complete organ failure is likely and other irreversible side effects such as death

Any less than 1.5gms and no gains at all and an affinity for party drugs, overindulgence and a general fear of success ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

what does me taking party drugs have to do with this argument? im on a gram maintaining 100kg and drunk a whole bottle of whiskey on sat night u mad? some of us have lives out side of pursuing plastic trophys

[HarryB]

any more than 250mg on a first cycle and complete organ failure is likely and other irreversible side effects such as death

Any less than 1.5gms and no gains at all and an affinity for party drugs, overindulgence and a general fear of success ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

what does me taking party drugs have to do with this argument? im on a gram maintaining 100kg and drunk a whole bottle of whiskey on sat night u mad? some of us have lives out side of pursuing plastic trophys

Nothing at all just thought I'd throw it in there cos it contributes to the validity of your protocols and practices... a whole bottle of whiskey? Bro what a champion, up your dosage so you don't slip down to 99 kilos...

[PeterDolan]

Wouldn't 250mg pw be to a 40yo like 500mg pw be to a 20yo on a first cycle given their decline in natural test? Or is the decline not really as great as I've heard it worked up to be?

Bump

[thatwaslight]

Any less than 1.5gms and no gains at all and an affinity for party drugs, overindulgence and a general fear of success ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

what does me taking party drugs have to do with this argument? im on a gram maintaining 100kg and drunk a whole bottle of whiskey on sat night u mad? some of us have lives out side of pursuing plastic trophys

Nothing at all just thought I'd throw it in there cos it contributes to the validity of your protocols and practices... a whole bottle of whiskey? Bro what a champion, up your dosage so you don't slip down to 99 kilos...

i don't take it seriously personally..... but ive put on over 40kg in my time training so my partying really has nothing to do with it. you just cant handle when anyone has a differing opinion to you because "your bigger" etc :roll:

[HarryB]

what does me taking party drugs have to do with this argument? im on a gram maintaining 100kg and drunk a whole bottle of whiskey on sat night u mad? some of us have lives out side of pursuing plastic trophys

Nothing at all just thought I'd throw it in there cos it contributes to the validity of your protocols and practices... a whole bottle of whiskey? Bro what a champion, up your dosage so you don't slip down to 99 kilos...

i don't take it seriously personally..... but ive put on over 40kg in my time training so my partying really has nothing to do with it. you just cant handle when anyone has a differing opinion to you because "your bigger" etc :roll:

Actually that's not the case at all.... I like differing opinions and I recognise we all respond differently to steroids. I don't think I am bigger than you, we weigh about the same, you're always pretty lean. Just the same as I might be heaps bigger if I followed higher dosing protocols, you might (would) be a lot better if you didn't f*ck around so much and you know it. You don't take it seriously?? Your livelihood and lifestyle revolve around bodybuilding subculture.. are you even serious saying that. Go to the big shows, always follow whats going on. Bro I don't even take it seriously. What was once a passion is now a 4 day a week hobby, but I take it seriously enough to not sabotage myself.

I do kind of get annoyed at you guys assuming that I am just a product of genetics.. I am not Bigkiwi who was born bigger than the rest of us and I remember as a teenager was just enormous. I've been as much as 65 kilos over the weight I started training at. Yeah I started training at about 60k.... I work hard, I know how drugs work and interact and I know how to apply those interactions. Some of the stuff you guys say is just dumb so why not pull you up on it? Especially when someone asks a serious question.

[musclenz]

You guys crack me up :pfft: 1ml EOD...how hard is that :roll:

I wouldn't do it now cos I am too much of a pussy...

This is what I don't get.... how come you so small? Like seriously? Was size not something you want or just bad genetics or what? You have a lot of knowledge and lots of ideas about application. I don't get it?

Only being a bit cheeky... here but seriously I know the most knowledgeable guys are rarely the biggest but I am just curious as to why that is.

Yeah I'm just a wee guy around 98kg 5'9" with shit genetics. I'm also quite a bit older than you. I prefer to be lean most of the year so size is not too much of an issue for me. I have worked in my own business for 30yrs. Its hospitality so its very busy. Only recently have I decided to sit on a computer all day :wink: Maybe I will put some size on now

[HarryB]

You guys crack me up :pfft: 1ml EOD...how hard is that :roll:

I wouldn't do it now cos I am too much of a pussy...

This is what I don't get.... how come you so small? Like seriously? Was size not something you want or just bad genetics or what? You have a lot of knowledge and lots of ideas about application. I don't get it?

Only being a bit cheeky... here but seriously I know the most knowledgeable guys are rarely the biggest but I am just curious as to why that is.

Yeah I'm just a wee guy around 98kg 5'9" with shit genetics. I'm also quite a bit older than you. I prefer to be lean most of the year so size is not too much of an issue for me. I have worked in my own business for 30yrs. Its hospitality so its very busy. Only recently have I decided to sit on a computer all day :wink: Maybe I will put some size on now

I knew there had to be some reason. Surely it wasn't misapplication of all that knowledge. I now have a huge sense of relief and await your impending massiveness.... ha ha ha ha ha

Excuse me for not getting it, if you take drugs the way you advocate others do then you'd imagine you'd be bigger. Older isn't too much of a big deal really and 98 at 5'9 is kind of small for a hard core drug user :wink:

[HarryB]

That's enough shit talking from me, usual diatribe and of no help whatsoever to the poor guy asking the original question... sorry Pseud !!

:shifty: :shifty: :shifty:

[soundsgood]

This is all getting a bit personal. It's just differing opinions. I'm not sure why MuscleNZ advocating 350mg test over Harry's 250mg /week is such a big deal.

For the record MuscleNZ is not a small guy at all, gets alot of second glances. He's not as big as you Harry, but not many of us are.

[AZIDE]

.

[HarryB]

":30p9nxqk]has anyone advocating 250mg/week actually put on a decent amount of size on that dosage over a short (length of a single cycle) time-frame (inb4 e-stats)?

most people who actually make the decision to use do so because they're hoping for good gains...or hoping to actually get big.

if you just want to f*ck around and have shit gains you might as well stay natty and just train once every few days and chew nicotine gum.

My first cycle was a joke compared to what guys do now, peaked at less than 200mgs, grew like a weed. had already been training a few years and didn't piss around at all. Does that count?

[Phedder]

There's no need for things to get personal here guys, everyone's entitled to an opinion.

Wouldn't 250mg pw be to a 40yo like 500mg pw be to a 20yo on a first cycle given their decline in natural test? Or is the decline not really as great as I've heard it worked up to be?

Bump

Also interested to hear some responses to this :nod:

And I'll bump my own very early comment that got no interest :cry:

Why do people jump to 500mg as first cycle?

Further on this, why is it that if someone believes 250mg isn't enough, the next step is always 500mg? Is it really that much harder to measure out 0.75ml twice a week, or 1.5ml once a week for a 375mg weekly dosage.

With two 10ml vials, that's a 10 week cycle at 500mg a week. Using 375mg a week, you get a 13.3 week cycle. Purely speculation here, but wouldn't a 13.3 week cycle at 375mg/w give more maintainable gains, with less side effects?

Thoughts?

[HarryB]

This is all getting a bit personal. It's just differing opinions. I'm not sure why MuscleNZ advocating 350mg test over Harry's 250mg /week is such a big deal.

For the record MuscleNZ is not a small guy at all, gets alot of second glances. He's not as big as you Harry, but not many of us are.

Started at 500 with 140 mg of dbol on top. That's where this started, came down to a modified lower dosing. First timer and 43? Just asking for some common sense is all.

And I didn't advocate 250, I advocated getting some blood work done and going through an HRT clinic instead of looking online for assistance.

MNZ is probably bigger than me in terms of lean body mass. You're a hell of a lot bigger than I am SG. I have said that many many times... was I getting personal? I guess so... sorry dad.

[HarryB]

There's no need for things to get personal here guys, everyone's entitled to an opinion.

Wouldn't 250mg pw be to a 40yo like 500mg pw be to a 20yo on a first cycle given their decline in natural test? Or is the decline not really as great as I've heard it worked up to be?

Bump

Also interested to hear some responses to this :nod:

And I'll bump my own very early comment that got no interest :cry:

Why do people jump to 500mg as first cycle?

Further on this, why is it that if someone believes 250mg isn't enough, the next step is always 500mg? Is it really that much harder to measure out 0.75ml twice a week, or 1.5ml once a week for a 375mg weekly dosage.

With two 10ml vials, that's a 10 week cycle at 500mg a week. Using 375mg a week, you get a 13.3 week cycle. Purely speculation here, but wouldn't a 13.3 week cycle at 375mg/w give more maintainable gains, with less side effects?

Thoughts?

you guys put these things in while we are all being super hard brainiacs and expect we will notice...

Actually having spoken to PD about his point it's very valid, maybe more receptive due to their being less test in general in the advancing years. I would be interested to know if anyone has any knowledge in this area also.

As to your suggestion I agree, why does it need to be 250-500 stupid but real answer is... 1 ml then two mls like it's a natural progression. No reason at all....

[Optimass]

":74a9e44h]

I'm with Harry on this ... Ihave been on 250mg test per week now for 4 months and I still look pretty special. (currently 117kg @ 12-13%)

and you are losing weight at the moment no? and also you probably never go off so you using 250mg/week for a few months while cutting is totally different to someone doing that as a first cycle, presumably to gain muscle

would the net gains (after pct) made really worth shutting down your natty test production using 250mg/week. i think not

No weighed in this morning at 119.5kg :grin: ... almost where I started from but I have lost nearly 4 inches off my waist ...

Had my first bfat caliper in over 8 years a few weeks ago and plan to do another in a few weeks - will post up a comparison for you.

And I do go off mate - but havent used pct so my gains are what they are. I don't use more because I don't have to. I'm not in a hurry - and as a result hold on to most of what I put on for longer. I'm not sayn I havent used more in the past but I prefer to make sure everything else is lined up first and only cycle after I have held it for a while.

You should just post under your normal handle - I dont mind :nod:

My first cycle wasnt very scientific - 40 ml of winnie 2ml a day until it ran out - gain 7kg from memory (may be a bit more :-s ) I had already been seriously training for 5 years though so I was primed.

I dont actually think what MNZ posted up was excessive - but it makes a lot of sence when you apply his logic (and vast experience) - I would feel very comfortable following his advice even now - you are never too old to learn something new - and I always pick up little things here and there. Android has been good at broadening my old school approach.

But IME starting off at 250mg p/week and getting a good result because you have lined up nutro/training/recovery 100% is better in IMO. Means when you take your next step you have a good plan to follow and more knowledge about what you are doing. Is more my approach ... logic.

I see a lot of younger guys hitting their first cycle on much more because they expect to lift like me and look like me tomorrow.

Lose all their gains in a matter of weeks because they dont do enough to support either side of the cycle.

- Dorian Yates was made decades not weeks.

[genetic freek]

So after that cat fight... whats the advice to the OP lol

[HarryB]

So after that cat fight... whats the advice to the OP lol

LOL sorry OP.

[thatwaslight]

500 will def yield solid results where as 250 may be under whelming (it may not)

there is nothing dangerous or OTT about 500mgs a week.

TO A POINT more gear = more muscle

[severe]

any more than 250mg on a first cycle and complete organ failure is likely and other irreversible side effects such as death

This! Damn straight. My doc has said that because I went over 250 on my first cycle, I was doomed to die at some stage in my future.

Freaking now.

As for the question on whether 250 for someone 40+ is like 500 for a 20 year ld. I don't think it is like that. Sure, maye the % of change is similar due to the decline in natty test on the 40+ guy, but I don't think it is a % that helps grow. I think it must be a mg/wk level that enables it.

My reasoning for this is that if I had no test what so ever, and had 10mg/wk, I have a big boost in %, but not enough to enforce the things that make us males. Would still ave a soft cock, and talk like M Jackson.

So, I reckon we have a golden zone (personal to each of us), and it is up to us to find it.

In saying that, brb, going upstairs to pin 500