How much Running is too much?

[timolio]

Hey I've been stuck between 75-80kg for a while and am wondering if I'm running too much? I'm also looking to get bigger legs and am not sure if i run too much so there getting too toned instead.

I do a hill run 7km on mondays and flat 6km on wednesdays and 4km friday.

18-20km a week.

I also workout on mondays, wednesdays and fridays afterwards. Is this bad?

And Im not on supplements, I eat tuna 20g protein each before and after. plus other protein throughout the day. But I usually burn about as much as I eat.

[teamfatboy]

Ummmmm - coupla things:

Running's a specific form of cardio - at one end, sprinters are hugely muscular with massive legs, at the other end, marathon runners are lean, but carry only enough muscle to transport themselves long distances as fast as possible.

At that sort of distance/ time - maybe 30-45 min for the long run? - you'd be doing 2-3 hours of cardio a week, which isn't of itself excessive, except:

doing cardio before weights will never build muscle - it's about the worst sequence. Either do weights first, or do weights and cardio at separate times (3 hours or more apart); and

if you're burning everything you eat - not gaining or losing bodyfat or muscle, that might be a clue. There's an old adage, about "Train, Eat, Grow" - and it's that middle piece that'll get you. Diet's about three things:

total calories in (most important);"macros" - how many cals from protein/ carbs/ fats; and

timing - when do you get the calories in.

If you want bigger legs, then fuel them with more food, and time your diet to give them what they need when they need it; train them for growth by making weights your priority.

Just my 2c worth, of course

[timolio]

Omg thanks bro. Alot of that is really useful, especially the running before working out and the sprint training.

Will definitely look more into it.

Cheers for the advice.

edit : Just out of curiosity if you run straight after a workout, will it affect how much I grow back for that workout?

[teamfatboy]

Here's 2c more:

Running medium distance like that won't help with muscle growth - whether it's right after weights or not..... the point about the timing is that the energy when the muscles are fresh, is better spent on weights for growth than it is on running. Running when the muscles are depleted forces them to use other energy sources for motion - but it won't do anything for growth.

If you're running for cardiovascular fitness, then do it on separate days from weights.

If you're running for growth... don't. No sprinter got legs like that from covering long distances at a moderate intensity, the kind that can be sustained for long periods.. they do intervals at massive intensity.

If you're running to get leaner, then steady-state's less effective than high intensity interval training (HIIT) regardless of the timing relative to weights training sessions.

Having read your intro post, I think the key thing to understand is that medium distance is not going to make your legs grow in size...

The "conventional wisdom" is that:

Muscle strength comes from low-reps, high weights (4-6 reps or less per set)

Muscle size comes from 8-10-12 reps per set and

Muscle endurance (like running) is effectively sets of hundreds of reps.. hence no size doing what you're doing.

You've also pointed out that you were having problems, and added in a back day. So, if your legs aren't growing, consider a specific leg day.

A three day split might be:

a. legs

b. chest-arms

c. back-shoulders

For instance.. add in an ab exercise at the end of each day, do running on the off days... do arms on running days - but done right, they'll get a good hammering during chest and shoulders workouts.

Oh, and when it comes to diet... that will take fuel. No two ways about it. Done right, you don't need to blow-out and add massive body fat, but nothing grows without food.

PS - avoid ham... salt (water retention), nitrates, possibly sugar (in the curing process). Nothing wrong with lean red meat, grilled steak, or even mince with the fat skimmed off, tuna, chicken or eggs - but save those processed foods for cheat meals.

[severe]

Hill sprint relays are awesome for cardio improvements. Short and sweet.

After the weight room, let your body deal with repairing the muscles you worked on.

I run for 30 mins every 2nd Sunday.

In my opinion you should change to a more sprint based cardio (as TFB mentioned).

[timolio]

Cheers thanks alot guys.

Yea fatboy I think I'm gona try out your method and Ill post up how it goes.

I've been using ham as a source of protein but yea i'll try use a diff source for protein. And cheers for clearing up the running after weights. I completely understood what you said.

And yea thanks, I think I'm going to try sprint sets, I know the perfect hill. Gona go all outs on short high intensity runs.

P.S do you reckon short high intensity runs burn more body fat? or do long endurance runs? for example if they were both 30min long but the short runs had small rests.

[severe]

Using a bit of bro-science, I would say the high intensity, short duration wins for fat burning.

You can walk for hours and not change a thing.

That is my bro logic. So I say hill sprints for the win. When I did them, I lost fat and improved my endurance better than extended duration medium-low intensity.

But people will differ.

If you are weight training, chose hill sprints. Let your rest be the time it took to do a set.

First time, try to run to the top and back. time it. and also time how long it takes to be run ready again.

Then workouts like 1/4 way, down, 1/2 way, down, 1.4 way down work.

rest for teh time it took to complete the set.

do 2 or 3 times. twice a week.

then after 3 months take the top of the hill again.

I did Liverpool street behind Real Groovy records, aucks. Struggled doing 1/2 way to start. By the 3rd month, I could run to the top, then down, 30 pushups, then top and down, 30 push ups. legend.

If you have access, check that motherfucker out.

Also ran to the top of Baldwin street, Dunedin, as well as their Hill street, to the top.

Got right into it. The biggest thing I noticed (as it still hurt to runit) was my recovery times went from like 10mins down to a couple. Made running on teh flat a breeze too. Always thought that if I was outnumbered, I would head to a hill and boost it, then wait till they got to the top and cream them.

The guy who got me into it was combat ready, and as he was busy travelling the world, he often didn't have the luxury of time to train, so hill sprints formed his cardio. 5-10 minutes of hell and it's done.

[timolio]

Hey Cheers man thats really interesting.

I know the perfect track, takes like 4-5min to the top. Really Tiring.

But I'm not quite sure what your method is.

Do you mean I run straight to the top and straight down. Then run 1/4 way up then down, then 1/2 way up then down, then 1/4?? or whole way up then down?

I'm gona try this tomorrow and how long do you reckon I should be doing this high intensity training for all up in one session?

Really interesting stuff btw

Oh and do push ups help much? are they to keep you puffed and tired while letting your legs rest? and get a bit of arm muscle too?

[severe]

1st time only: run (or crawl) your way to the top. time it, gauge your recovery.

Then start training a day or 2 later. Then you do the relays.

If teh hill is massive, try running 30/or 40 mtr, down, 50/ or 60 mt,r down, 30/ or 40 mtr, down etc and that is your workout. Try resting between each 'up' by resting for as long as it took to do it. if you ran the first relay to 30 mtr and took 30 secs, then rest 30 secs.

When you have finished your first set of relays, rest for how long the entire event took place (including rests), then repeat once more. So, do it twice.

Depending on how steep it is. You can alter to suit.

I did the pushups to stay fatigued. try it once you get better at it. and your O2 uptake improves. Not recommended to start with, unless keen for punishment.

After a few months, or even once a month, try doing the top again. You will notice a change

[timolio]

Thanks bro, Gona try this now.

I've been doing long runs trying to burn fat and keep my abs, but apparently high intensity is the way to go. Sweeeet! cuz its alot shorter

[M.T]

anything over 10 meters

[hjp]

4-5min to the top of the hill means it isn't a sprint, its cardio lol :pfft: . That's interval training for endurance. Still high intensity but not sprints. I agree with severe, go with some hills approx 30-40m.

My conditioning sessions - it's not fitness or cardio, conditions me to recover better when lifting weights + keeps weight in check - involves about a 35-ish metre hill and I sprint to the top, walk back down then do it again. Normally do sets of 5 then a short break and go for another 5 for a few sets. OR I push a sled. Same thing, short distances (~60m) a couple of minute or so rest an go again.

Remember if you are trying to grow and you are running it will mean you need to be eating in excess of your base AND then some more for the calories spent in cardio. So any running = more eating needed to grow.

[timolio]

Yea haha, I pretty much did what you said, Like a 70m hill, did 5 sprints jogged back, like 3min rest, then 5 again walk back.

Omg was so tiring i love it, felt like I was going to pass out of not enough oxygen, but was great cuz felt good-tired for like 3 hours afterwards