Squats- First Movement?

[whiterhyno]

Hey guys

Question, when squatting (for size ie bodybuilding not powerlifting suat) what is your first movement?

Hips back then squat down is the more common movement keeping chest high etc

But Poliquin reccomends to not go hips back but rather knees first

So slightly knees out then squat down

I have been doing this for the last 6 weeks or so but my knees are starting to ache alot

Never been a massive free squatter but rather hit heaps of diff angles with volume ie Hack Squat, Leg Press, Smith Squats much like Dorian did and got good results

But trying to give free squats a decent run and see the results would like to know what others thoughts are re the movement etc

Thanks

[HarryB]

I alternate the order in which I do my exercises from week to week. So one week I will squat first, the next hack squat or something else and I look at my increases in strength as occurring over a time period of say 4-6 weeks on any one given exercise. I might be able to squat more quicker if I squat every week and do it first but I get less joint pain if I squat less frequently, it just takes me longer to get my numbers up.

[whiterhyno]

I alternate the order in which I do my exercises from week to week. So one week I will squat first, the next hack squat or something else and I look at my increases in strength as occurring over a time period of say 4-6 weeks on any one given exercise. I might be able to squat more quicker if I squat every week and do it first but I get less joint pain if I squat less frequently, it just takes me longer to get my numbers up.

Cheers Harry, good info there mate thanks

But in regards to the Squat, do you start the squat with knees out then drop down OR Hips back and drop down???

[HarryB]

I alternate the order in which I do my exercises from week to week. So one week I will squat first, the next hack squat or something else and I look at my increases in strength as occurring over a time period of say 4-6 weeks on any one given exercise. I might be able to squat more quicker if I squat every week and do it first but I get less joint pain if I squat less frequently, it just takes me longer to get my numbers up.

Cheers Harry, good info there mate thanks

But in regards to the Squat, do you start the squat with knees out then drop down OR Hips back and drop down???

Knees out then drop. I try and stay as upright as possible although the weight dictates that most of the time lol

I have been trying to get my squat numbers up lately and have some knee issues so what I find is helping a lot is keeping my volume down. Lower reps and not pushing to failure on squats, just setting number targets. Then I can crank out reps on my other leg movements.

[nate225]

As a former hasbeen PLer I have always emphasised breaking from hips first. I haven't tried the other way but if its hurting your knees then its obviously not right for you?

Whats CP's reasoning behind breaking at knees first?

[steak]

Couple of questions:

1. Where is the bar placed..other than on your back...ie: high on the back across base of neck or lower down across rear delts?

2. In the bottom of your squat do your knees travel out past the end of your toes. Is your lower leg angled forward?

LMK

[whiterhyno]

As a former hasbeen PLer I have always emphasised breaking from hips first. I haven't tried the other way but if its hurting your knees then its obviously not right for you?

Whats CP's reasoning behind breaking at knees first?

Yeah your right if its hurting than change it up

I beleive his reason is due to keeping tension / forces through quads and hams in a full range squat

Rather than hips break first the spine and hip flexors are loaded more

Here is a link to a article of similar thoughts of his

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Articles ... inish.aspx

[whiterhyno]

Couple of questions:

1. Where is the bar placed..other than on your back...ie: high on the back across base of neck or lower down across rear delts?

2. In the bottom of your squat do your knees travel out past the end of your toes. Is your lower leg angled forward?

LMK

1 Bar is placed high on the back with elbows under the bar(but as I fatigue I am finding elbows back more)

2 Yes my knees are over toes (I am pretty sure anyway) which if the case then this would be the reson for my knee pain

Is it a bad thing muscle wise ie for size to break at the hips first???

[whiterhyno]

I alternate the order in which I do my exercises from week to week. So one week I will squat first, the next hack squat or something else and I look at my increases in strength as occurring over a time period of say 4-6 weeks on any one given exercise. I might be able to squat more quicker if I squat every week and do it first but I get less joint pain if I squat less frequently, it just takes me longer to get my numbers up.

Cheers Harry, good info there mate thanks

But in regards to the Squat, do you start the squat with knees out then drop down OR Hips back and drop down???

Knees out then drop. I try and stay as upright as possible although the weight dictates that most of the time lol

I have been trying to get my squat numbers up lately and have some knee issues so what I find is helping a lot is keeping my volume down. Lower reps and not pushing to failure on squats, just setting number targets. Then I can crank out reps on my other leg movements.

Thanks Harry, yeah my prob is sometimes overtraining as I wanna smash the quads from all angles but might try a lower volume approach with Squats and see how it goes

[steak]

Couple of questions:

1. Where is the bar placed..other than on your back...ie: high on the back across base of neck or lower down across rear delts?

2. In the bottom of your squat do your knees travel out past the end of your toes. Is your lower leg angled forward?

LMK

1 Bar is placed high on the back with elbows under the bar(but as I fatigue I am finding elbows back more)

2 Yes my knees are over toes (I am pretty sure anyway) which if the case then this would be the reson for my knee pain

Is it a bad thing muscle wise ie for size to break at the hips first???

I see this quite a bit. you are pretty new to squatting?

Try the bar a little lower on your back/shoulders...not much 1-2 cm maybe and break at the hip first pushing back while you drive the knees outwards. Drive the knees outwards on the way up to. This will help straighten the lower leg and take some of the loading off your patella tendon which I suspect could be the cause of your pain.

[nate225]

^^ This.

Reads straight like advice from Louie! :nod:

[startinfromscratch]

^^ This.

Reads straight like advice from Louie! :nod:

come on louie, lets get serious.

[HarryB]

^^ This.

Reads straight like advice from Louie! :nod:

come on louie, lets get serious.

PLing advice lol... awesome squats but you know ....

[whiterhyno]

Cheers for the replies

Did hips back this morning and felt better on knees which was good

Slightly weaker but oh well

Keep this up and see how it goes, feel bit more in the Glutes also

[HarryB]

Cheers for the replies

Did hips back this morning and felt better on knees which was good

Slightly weaker but oh well

Keep this up and see how it goes, feel bit more in the Glutes also

Yeah it activates more posterior chain.. I kind of like a higher bar straighter back and not breaking at the hips first. Just because I feel it more in my quads. (my ass is big enough lol)

[whiterhyno]

Cheers for the replies

Did hips back this morning and felt better on knees which was good

Slightly weaker but oh well

Keep this up and see how it goes, feel bit more in the Glutes also

Yeah it activates more posterior chain.. I kind of like a higher bar straighter back and not breaking at the hips first. Just because I feel it more in my quads. (my ass is big enough lol)

Yeah makes sense, think that's why I did smith squats over free for years as it hit my quads better

But smith squats shall not be mentioned on here as its the devil to some

Yeah not sure I want my ass much bigger, lunges are hitting it also

[steak]

you could add old school hack squats with a bar and front squats to your regime to target quads more. A bigger back squat will help your whole body grow though and provide you with more power in other lifts over time.

[whiterhyno]

you could add old school hack squats with a bar and front squats to your regime to target quads more. A bigger back squat will help your whole body grow though and provide you with more power in other lifts over time.

Thanks Steak, would you put slight raise under heels for front squat? Like a small 2.5kg plate

Also are the old school hacks like a deadlifts but behind the legs ???

[steak]

Thanks Steak, would you put slight raise under heels for front squat? Like a small 2.5kg plate

Also are the old school hacks like a deadlifts but behind the legs ???

If you aren't flexible enough to front squat with feet flat then make yourself more flexible. Forget the raised heels for this.

Re: old school hackies...yup your onto it. Push hard through the floor and bring hips through.

[whiterhyno]

Cool thanks will give it a crack next leg session