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Steroids question for those that are knowledgable

gareththomasnz
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gareththomasnz Junior member

gareththomasnz

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Hey I dont use roids but am planning to start using "Pine Pollen" tincture that contains phyto-androgens

My question is this - free testosterone is measured in ng/dl

Thats millionths of mg's per 1/10 of a litre

So as the body uses so little testosterone - why the hell are synthetic testosterone dosages in milligrams 1000-10,000x higher than the natural level ?

Is this because most of the synthetic testosterone is not converted to natural testosterone ?

It must be. I know the by products of the conversion are what causes health problems.

Most of the steroid dose even when injected is not used by the body at all. Looking at the info on Pine Pollen people are reporting the free testosterone elevating to high normal levels regardless of age.

It has DHEA and other androgens - not just testosterone so this makes sense.

I am just wondering exactly why synthetics are taken in such high doses compared to the ng levels the body uses. Even on roids you will only get up to 2000-4000 ng/dl absolute max so all the rest is toxic ?

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Android Veteran member

Android

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That's an interesting question u have there...comparing a finite weight like mg to nmols/liter sounds ... wrong to me

Nmol is per liter so 2,000-4,000 is not the final amount ... how many liters of blood ? 7. It's not released at once either so

Ah f*ck I dont know the answer, just take the damn stuff!

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severe Senior member

severe

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How do I administer this pine pollen tincture? .. injection, snort or rectal lozenge? I think last cos it sounds like something that comes straight out of someone's ass! lol

TWL evaporates his workout sweat, and sells the resulting powder to unsuspecting people.

I secret suspect it is fap sweat (after seeing the full nude in my PM box)

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Android Veteran member

Android

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How do I administer this pine pollen tincture? .. injection, snort or rectal lozenge? I think last cos it sounds like something that comes straight out of someone's ass! lol

TWL evaporates his workout sweat, and sells the resulting powder to unsuspecting people.

I secret suspect it is fap sweat (after seeing the full nude in my PM box)

Who's "unsuspecting people"...how do you think I got so big :shock:

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crazyfacials Veteran member

crazyfacials

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How do I administer this pine pollen tincture? .. injection, snort or rectal lozenge? I think last cos it sounds like something that comes straight out of someone's ass! lol

TWL evaporates his workout sweat, and sells the resulting powder to unsuspecting people.

I secret suspect it is fap sweat (after seeing the full nude in my PM box)

you still have not paid me for that pic, he has send me a whole photo shoot of him modeling different towels =P~ =P~

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Pseudonym Veteran member

Pseudonym

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Come on guys... Put your scepticism of pine pollen aside, and get back on topic. Focus on this bit:

My question is this - free testosterone is measured in ng/dl

Thats millionths of mg's per 1/10 of a litre

So as the body uses so little testosterone - why the hell are synthetic testosterone dosages in milligrams 1000-10,000x higher than the natural level?

It's actually quite a reasonable question, isn't it? :shrug:

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Android Veteran member

Android

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Come on guys... Put your scepticism of pine pollen aside, and get back on topic. Focus on this bit:
My question is this - free testosterone is measured in ng/dl

Thats millionths of mg's per 1/10 of a litre

So as the body uses so little testosterone - why the hell are synthetic testosterone dosages in milligrams 1000-10,000x higher than the natural level?

It's actually quite a reasonable question, isn't it? :shrug:

The answer is irrelevant to someone taking the stuff for real though that's all this banter is about. It doesn't matter and it prolly needs a degree to work it out and when you do work it out...it still doesn't matter!@

Is "why am I prescribed 500mg of Panadol when the overdose amount in rats per body weight is 1/2 that"...answer "because the liver takes 1/2 away".

End result tho: "who cares, if you want to feel better take 500mg like it says on the packet."

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nate225 Veteran member

nate225

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[MOD EDIT: content not consistant with topic.]

Did you just MOD EDIT yourself TWL?!

Or were you practising for when Pseudo announces you joining the Mod team?

Yeah just practicing bro the big day can't be far off now :)

Shit sorry bro - was supposed to be a PM!! Didn't know if Pseudo wanted it to be public knowledge yet! Oh well.... :grin:

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gareththomasnz Junior member

gareththomasnz

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Well Liver Cancer and all the rest of the shit that steroids can cause is one reason why its worth asking.

Also some folks who only know about synthetic androgens are biased by the high dosages used with steroids.

With pollen you are using only a few hundred or maybe thousand ng daily as a sublingual.

Plus as its organic substance it does not have the synthetic molecular waste products.

So the question is - is Pine Pollen not gunna work coz its too little dose - or are Roids by nature of the extreme dose toxic no matter what or how you take it ?

PS: I ordered a 5 month supply of Pine Pollen from ebay and also nettle root, I plan to use these and some ginseng and antler velvet in my own blend of tincture- just mix with bacadi 151 and shake daily for a month & its good to go. One teaspoon sublingual daily.

I am not using chrysin, DIM or saw palmetto as these block DHT

Also I just want to know whay is the roid dose so high if a low dose such as with "pine pollen" can elevate the free testosterone anyway?

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nate225 Veteran member

nate225

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Well Liver Cancer and all the rest of the shit that steroids can cause is one reason why its worth asking.

Also some folks who only know about synthetic androgens are biased by the high dosages used with steroids.

With pollen you are using only a few hundred or maybe thousand ng daily as a sublingual.

Plus as its organic substance it does not have the synthetic molecular waste products.

Let's help you a little instead of taking the piss.

Firstly I don't believe steroids are linked to liver cancer? Not in any medical studies that I've read anyway. Though I believe there may have been something years ago linking one oral steroid (Oxymethalone) to hepatic Ca.

Sublingually the pollen sterols, I'll assume they're plant sterols without knowing so, are unlikely to get into the blood stream unless the molecule size is very small?

Organic versus inorganic? Maybe I missed the point, all steroids are organic compounds as such, though I suspect you are referring to naturally occurring rather than synthesised? Either way wont affect the by products, its the compound itself, and its structures that determine byproducts of the metabolic pathway.

If indeed these get into your system I would suspect that the tiny levels would be ineffective due to liver processing them and leaving even less for the receptors in skeletal muscle to interact with? I'm just guessing though Gareth.

So the question is - is Pine Pollen not gunna work coz its too little dose - or are Roids by nature of the extreme dose toxic no matter what or how you take it ?

PS: I ordered a 5 month supply of Pine Pollen from ebay and also nettle root, I plan to use these and some ginseng and antler velvet in my own blend of tincture- just mix with bacadi 151 and shake daily for a month & its good to go. One teaspoon sublingual daily.

I am not using chrysin, DIM or saw palmetto as these block DHT

Also I just want to know whay is the roid dose so high if a low dose such as with "pine pollen" can elevate the free testosterone anyway?

Who showed elevated T levels? Is there any study (not a naturopaths one please!!) that is a double blind placebo type trial with a large enough sample size, preferably published in a peer reviewed journal, showing statistically significant results?

If not I'd say you just bought five months worth of shit!

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Android Veteran member

Android

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Well Liver Cancer and all the rest of the shit that steroids can cause is one reason why its worth asking.

Also some folks who only know about synthetic androgens are biased by the high dosages used with steroids.

With pollen you are using only a few hundred or maybe thousand ng daily as a sublingual.

Plus as its organic substance it does not have the synthetic molecular waste products.

So the question is - is Pine Pollen not gunna work coz its too little dose - or are Roids by nature of the extreme dose toxic no matter what or how you take it ?

PS: I ordered a 5 month supply of Pine Pollen from ebay and also nettle root, I plan to use these and some ginseng and antler velvet in my own blend of tincture- just mix with bacadi 151 and shake daily for a month & its good to go. One teaspoon sublingual daily.

I am not using chrysin, DIM or saw palmetto as these block DHT

Also I just want to know whay is the roid dose so high if a low dose such as with "pine pollen" can elevate the free testosterone anyway?

Nate beat me to it, but I agree with him as well...repped

"The natural way"

At best any natural product can only take your Test levels as high as they can be for your age, for your lifestyle, your diet, and for you individually.

If you believe these thigns work cool, let's say a healthy YOU exercises, has no stress, and is 40. Imagine the best a 40yr old can hope for is 20nmols/l Test...Now take you today and you're stressed, you work, you've got bills, and you might not exercise or eat as well as you could...you will NEVER go above 20nmols/l...nothing from the earth can invoke you to have a better Test level than a healthy male of your age.

Synthetic Test, can take your levels up to and well beyond 80nmols/l...I think some people can handle 120nmols/l correct me if I'm wrong here...about the levels of a large mountain gorilla.

You're asking because of Liver cancer, your oral pine pollen and other sublingual stuff goes directly to your liver...my oil-based gear does not my natural little friend...not everything from nature is liver or people-friendly, heroin comes from nature.

The DHEA in your concoction will be doing all the Test-raising levels, it's a prohormone. The rest is doing very little.

I do believe (I've taken many of these things myself) that some of them free your Testosterone and you end up with boners at night or in the AM where before you didn't have them. This implies a rise in Test, it's a freeing up of Test. Has good effects but again is within normal range for someone your age.

IMO

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Diab0lic Senior member

Diab0lic

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OK to answer your dosage question in a nutshell, around 98% of the injected testosterone is bound to blood proteins leaving around 2% as "free" testosterone (this can vary). Also, there are around 50 decilitres of blood in the average male (more for bbers). So in terms of the total dose injected, you have to reduce that number by at least 2500 times to get your amount per/dl. Then you need to take into account the half life (and therefore slow release) of the ester against the pharmacokinetic clearance (body using/eliminating the drug) from the system giving you a lower amount again (which Im not going to work out here).

These are the basic mechanisms of why you need to inject milligram amounts to achieve physiological/superphysiological free tesosterone levels.

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