How do you cruise?

[trainlikeafreak]

Harry, let's just be clear on one thing! The system I'm advocating isn't a system for people, it's a system for androids, an imaginary system. Imagine building an android, half human/half machine, that's designed to take out Bodybuilding shows. How would you program this device to get up to size as quickly as possible? With an IDW style blast/cruise, that's for sure. 8)

I look forward to seeing you onstage...

bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint

[I Declare War]

bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint

No. Bodybuilding is bodybuilding, Marathons are marathons, and sprinting is sprinting.

Harry, let's just be clear on one thing! The system I'm advocating isn't a system for people, it's a system for androids, an imaginary system. Imagine building an android, half human/half machine, that's designed to take out Bodybuilding shows. How would you program this device to get up to size as quickly as possible? With an IDW style blast/cruise, that's for sure. 8)

I look forward to seeing you onstage...

You too mate! Hopefully I can pull it all together.

[musclenz]

It's not the doses it's the mentality that wrecks people.

If we talk about progression which I agree is what its about. Maybe I could have stayed on cycle for years but I didn't and I progressed ok. Maybe you could progress without needing to be on all the time?

I don't much like this topic cos once guys make a decision it just becomes an exercise in convincing others it's a good one and it just becomes circular.

And for perspective, right now I'm taking 1ml of sus. 1.5 ml of tren 1ml of deca and 2.5ml of bold every 10-12 days. And I'm almost as strong as I have ever been and carrying more muscle than ever. It's not a small amount for me but I've only been hitting it for 5 weeks after have some months off. Maybe the does warp my perception cos I just don't see all that steroid use just to be average.

Inb4every1thinksIlieaboutmydosing!

Thats quite a nice combination of anabolics & androgens that should give good strength & size & still amounts to around 800mg PW. Just got to know what yr doing when you are mixing those 19 Nors, but I guess an ol bugger like you should be pretty well onto it. How long will you "blast" on that, or is that yr "cruise" :grin:

Re : Cruise & Blast

This should not be normal practice unless you are at a advanced level of BBing & /or competing. Apart from the cost alone, you cannot get size out of a bottle. However as a "older" lifter, I believe there is a place for it more or less as a form of HRT providing you are getting regular medical checks for BP,hormones, liver & kidney function, lipids, PSA, electrolytes, thyroid etc

[Android]

bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint

No. Bodybuilding is bodybuilding, Marathons are marathons, and sprinting is sprinting.

Ouch :pfft:

Harry, let's just be clear on one thing! The system I'm advocating isn't a system for people, it's a system for androids, an imaginary system. Imagine building an android, half human/half machine, that's designed to take out Bodybuilding shows. How would you program this device to get up to size as quickly as possible? With an IDW style blast/cruise, that's for sure. 8)

I look forward to seeing you onstage...

You too mate! Hopefully I can pull it all together.

So should I not come off after 20 week cycle?

Many people aiming high in BB are on for a year or more.

I thought I hadn't done a blast cruise but during last years 9mth cycle I think I did a month of just Test while I prepared to change from bulking to cutting compounds....I dunno :shock: did I ?

Didn't help me even get close to the overalls :pfft: hahaha

[HarryB]

It's not the doses it's the mentality that wrecks people.

If we talk about progression which I agree is what its about. Maybe I could have stayed on cycle for years but I didn't and I progressed ok. Maybe you could progress without needing to be on all the time?

I don't much like this topic cos once guys make a decision it just becomes an exercise in convincing others it's a good one and it just becomes circular.

And for perspective, right now I'm taking 1ml of sus. 1.5 ml of tren 1ml of deca and 2.5ml of bold every 10-12 days. And I'm almost as strong as I have ever been and carrying more muscle than ever. It's not a small amount for me but I've only been hitting it for 5 weeks after have some months off. Maybe the does warp my perception cos I just don't see all that steroid use just to be average.

Inb4every1thinksIlieaboutmydosing!

Thats quite a nice combination of anabolics & androgens that should give good strength & size & still amounts to around 800mg PW. Just got to know what yr doing when you are mixing those 19 Nors, but I guess an ol bugger like you should be pretty well onto it. How long will you "blast" on that, or is that yr "cruise" :grin:

Its just what I'm doing. I don't blast or cruise. I just do what I do. It works out to around 900 a fortnight really cos I'm always closer to 2 weeks and I don't divide dose. Its 2 shots then 10-12 days in between. Works for me.

When I diet I might take more but if I'm responding well then why? Certainly not just for the sake of it. I'm not chemist smart like you guys but I do ok... Lol

[I Declare War]

So should I not come off after 20 week cycle?

Many people aiming high in BB are on for a year or more.

I thought I hadn't done a blast cruise but during last years 9mth cycle I think I did a month of just Test while I prepared to change from bulking to cutting compounds....I dunno :shock: did I ?

Didn't help me even get close to the overalls :pfft: hahaha

You've been on for so long now, that you are due for some time off, from a health standpoint.

Sounds like you did already blast/cruise, just not a very structured one.

You're on pretty much all the time. If you commit properly to being on, then you can build your off period into the cruise periods as I do, and not have to take extended time off, where you loose your gains.

[Pseudonym]

This is a really interesting discussion. Thanks, guys!

I'm probably showing my ignorance here, but what are the dangers of long-term low-dose cruising? Is it that you may eventually damage the HPTA to such an extent that natural test production never starts back up, and you end up cruising (or on HRT) for life? Or are there other complications like increased risk of heart disease, cancer, etc? And if it's the latter, are these complications not also present with HRT?

[southernsamurai]

IDW.... You have TALKED about getting on stage so many times and have NEVER actually done it... TLAF has done it..... Has made awesome gains lately so I don't know why you'd make it personal like that.

Wouldn't it be wise to get the most out of the least?

[Android]

So should I not come off after 20 week cycle?

Many people aiming high in BB are on for a year or more.

I thought I hadn't done a blast cruise but during last years 9mth cycle I think I did a month of just Test while I prepared to change from bulking to cutting compounds....I dunno :shock: did I ?

Didn't help me even get close to the overalls :pfft: hahaha

You've been on for so long now, that you are due for some time off, from a health standpoint.

Sounds like you did already blast/cruise, just not a very structured one.

You're on pretty much all the time. If you commit properly to being on, then you can build your off period into the cruise periods as I do, and not have to take extended time off, where you loose your gains.

I didn't think I was on an extended time apart from one cycle last year.

Had6 weeks off after the Nats and 2 blood tests to show natty levels were back to normal. Am I supposed to wait longer between cycles....for what? Is there some other value to follow aside from LSH and FSH etc that I don't know about....srs question....or is this the "same time on same time off" philosophy?

I dropped back to 108kg, then climbed to 122kg this time so coming off doesn't have to set you back...it's like climbing a dozen stairs and dropping back 6....then up another 12 stairs, back another 6. In the end you should be gaining.

[soundsgood]

I like your approach Harry. Just using gear as an aid when needed, not solely relying on it for your gains. Have you always been so sensible? Did you ever run much higher doses when you were younger?

I guess you come from a time when gear was a lot more expensive and not as readily available so you had to make the most of what you had yeah?

[nate225]

I like your approach Harry. Just using gear as an aid when needed, not solely relying on it for your gains. Have you always been so sensible? Did you ever run much higher doses when you were younger?

I guess you come from a time when gear was a lot more expensive and not as readily available so you had to make the most of what you had yeah?

Only so much of the 50mg/mL Aussie Vet product guys could get in over a week! Pretty much SEO's by default!! :pfft: :grin:

[HarryB]

I like your approach Harry. Just using gear as an aid when needed, not solely relying on it for your gains. Have you always been so sensible? Did you ever run much higher doses when you were younger?

I guess you come from a time when gear was a lot more expensive and not as readily available so you had to make the most of what you had yeah?

Only so much of the 50mg/mL Aussie Vet product guys could get in over a week! Pretty much SEO's by default!! :pfft: :grin:

Well it was a combination of things one of which was the sheer volume of shots needed and two was just the idea that you didn't need to take that much. I have always been minimalist when it came to how much I was prepared to take. I mean 2 grams of test back in my day meant 20 mls of prop!!! Or 30 something mls of cyp or enan at 75mgs per ml.. NOt like the convenient 8mls it would be now.

I have taken bigger doses, around the 2.5 gram mark but I never really noticed much more than I did at lower dosing except a general sense of ill health. I have also done the whole cocktail of drugs thing, IGF, thyroid, insulin, GH, peptides... over time I have had a good honest crack at everything and I kind of know how much of what I need to take to get the response I want. I also have a decent idea about how my body responds to different things and which drugs I don't think have any personal benefit. I have also done long cycles, 20-24 weeks at a time. I didn't delude myself that I was blast/cruising.. lol I just recognised that I was on it for that long. It was only because I would sometimes do 3 or 4 shows with 3 or 4 weeks in between each one so I that would drag things out. That was early on, I soon transitioned into one or two shows a year. I will probably be on around 20 weeks once I start prepping for wgtn, but will try and have a 4 week gap somewhere depending on how I am going.

Now what I think about the whole drug dosing and mixing and diet and training is that.. well simple is best. You can complicate matters and over bro science it... but if it was so complex and made such a difference the quality of bodybuilder now say at our local level would be so much higher than it was 15 or 20 years ago. (it isn't) Our national champions would be leap years ahead of guys who were our national champs 15 years ago... (they aren't)

I have trained and am friends with some really top level aussie and nz bodybuilders, pros and amateurs alike and well... ask someone like Kevin O'Grady about any aspect of diet, nutrition and/or training and he keeps things as simple as anything so I sort of transitioned away from trying to be too smart about things and just keep stuff simple. It seems to work for me.

Risk vs reward, I don't see myself as any kind of awesome pro bodybuilder type so the risk definitely outweighed the rewards for me personally.

[thatwaslight]

what does competing have to do with anything? who from nz has ever made a real success/career out of bodybuilding....? i don't think you can use competing to justify drug use.

[Pseudonym]

I'm probably showing my ignorance here, but what are the dangers of long-term low-dose cruising? Is it that you may eventually damage the HPTA to such an extent that natural test production never starts back up, and you end up cruising (or on HRT) for life? Or are there other complications like increased risk of heart disease, cancer, etc? And if it's the latter, are these complications not also present with HRT?

[HarryB]

what does competing have to do with anything? who from nz has ever made a real success/career out of bodybuilding....? i don't think you can use competing to justify drug use.

I was talking from a perosnal perspective but yeah everyone has different reasons... certain things just don't make sense to me personally. Like if I wasn't competing I wouldn't be taking anything. I wouldn't see the point. I can hold good size and strength without it. I can train just fine without taking steroids... lol being off doesn't mean not training.

Lot's of guys make a great living out of bodybuilding, they just usually aren't the guys standing onstage.

[HarryB]

I'm probably showing my ignorance here, but what are the dangers of long-term low-dose cruising? Is it that you may eventually damage the HPTA to such an extent that natural test production never starts back up, and you end up cruising (or on HRT) for life? Or are there other complications like increased risk of heart disease, cancer, etc? And if it's the latter, are these complications not also present with HRT?

Short answer is yes similar problems result from HRT. However that's one of the reasons you take the therapy, is because your natural levels have declined through age or other factors. Yes you end up HRT for life or at some stage just accepting that your body is meant to age.

I think the reason HRT doesn't have the same complications as cruising is that the dosing is a lot lower and you follow protocols for blood testing and health checks. You also supplement your GH and a host of other hormones so that everything is working synergistically to give you a greater sense of well being.

[thatwaslight]

what does competing have to do with anything? who from nz has ever made a real success/career out of bodybuilding....? i don't think you can use competing to justify drug use.

I was talking from a perosnal perspective but yeah everyone has different reasons... certain things just don't make sense to me personally. Like if I wasn't competing I wouldn't be taking anything. I wouldn't see the point. I can hold good size and strength without it. I can train just fine without taking steroids... lol being off doesn't mean not training.

Lot's of guys make a great living out of bodybuilding, they just usually aren't the guys standing onstage.

agreed they are the ones behind the scenes alright....

[Android]

what does competing have to do with anything? who from nz has ever made a real success/career out of bodybuilding....? i don't think you can use competing to justify drug use.

I was talking from a perosnal perspective but yeah everyone has different reasons... certain things just don't make sense to me personally. Like if I wasn't competing I wouldn't be taking anything. I wouldn't see the point. I can hold good size and strength without it. I can train just fine without taking steroids... lol being off doesn't mean not training.

Lot's of guys make a great living out of bodybuilding, they just usually aren't the guys standing onstage.

Yeah you'd prolly still look big, lucky bugger :shock:

I was 8 years in the gym doing just fine (after a dabble in a cycle to get me kick-started off 68kg....) until I wanted to compete. I saw and knew that almost everyone winning big classes on stage was doing it and the only way to be competitive was to start taking the stuff - it's a fact of life.

But if I wasn't competing I would be happy on 200mg/ week Test cycled 3 times a year with 2 month-long breaks. Low-dose, easy come-down, no pressure.

Pseudo,

I do know that doctors are concerned that elevated Test levels can harden the prostate. Whatever that leads to isn't my fiedl of expertise LOL but there's avalue you get from blood tests and it's a scale from 1 to 10. Antyhing over a 3 and you should be concerned I think mine was 0.3 or something which indicated I was good to go for steroids :pfft: