Natural Health Products Bill

[HarryB]

Its a good thing if they are conning people by putting drugs in thier herbs. or not even putting herbs in their herbs. Its the con artists making things shit for everyone. Not the regulators. boo.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

and

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h a ha ha ha

Cos it's so cost effective to put illegal drugs into your products.

[Dinahlady]

Its a good thing if they are conning people by putting drugs in thier herbs. or not even putting herbs in their herbs. Its the con artists making things shit for everyone. Not the regulators. boo.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

and

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h a ha ha ha

Cos it's so cost effective to put illegal drugs into your products.

I didn't say illegal just noone wants to be taking shit that isnt labelled! Its like the Chinese baby formula scandal. If it isn't regulated people could actually get hurt.

[HarryB]

Its a good thing if they are conning people by putting drugs in thier herbs. or not even putting herbs in their herbs. Its the con artists making things shit for everyone. Not the regulators. boo.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

and

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h a ha ha ha

Cos it's so cost effective to put illegal drugs into your products.

I didn't say illegal just noone wants to be taking shit that isnt labelled! Its like the Chinese baby formula scandal. If it isn't regulated people could actually get hurt.

It sounds like a way to create jobs and regulations that so far we have existed very well without. Oh it sounds like that cos that's exactly what it is.

Again small business loses and consumers lose.

Nothing likethe govt creating a captive market for big players.

Just being a hater sorry. Won't say any more on this topic, thanks for first hand insight dinahdad and extra thanks for using your taxpayer wages to take away more of the taxpayers liberties.

[Dinahlady]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

and

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h a ha ha ha

Cos it's so cost effective to put illegal drugs into your products.

I didn't say illegal just noone wants to be taking shit that isnt labelled! Its like the Chinese baby formula scandal. If it isn't regulated people could actually get hurt.

It sounds like a way to create jobs and regulations that so far we have existed very well without. Oh it sounds like that cos that's exactly what it is.

Again small business loses and consumers lose.

Nothing likethe govt creating a captive market for big players.

Just being a hater sorry. Won't say any more on this topic, thanks for first hand insight dinahdad and extra thanks for using your taxpayer wages to take away more of the taxpayers liberties.

Theres no jobs being created the teams they are using are pre existing officials just like him who already have different roles relating what the bill is about. Though that there leaves room for vested interests to creep in I guess. Maybe it will create jobs within the supplement companies though. More employment for NZers.

Yeah its nice srs. Won't complain about paying my taxes I'm getting them right back! haha his other income is a pension from the UK NHS. Rinsing two countries at once. That is how it is done.

[HarryB]

I didn't say illegal just noone wants to be taking shit that isnt labelled! Its like the Chinese baby formula scandal. If it isn't regulated people could actually get hurt.

It sounds like a way to create jobs and regulations that so far we have existed very well without. Oh it sounds like that cos that's exactly what it is.

Again small business loses and consumers lose.

Nothing likethe govt creating a captive market for big players.

Just being a hater sorry. Won't say any more on this topic, thanks for first hand insight dinahdad and extra thanks for using your taxpayer wages to take away more of the taxpayers liberties.

Theres no jobs being created the teams they are using are pre existing officials just like him who already have different roles relating what the bill is about. Though that there leaves room for vested interests to creep in I guess. Maybe it will create jobs within the supplement companies though. More employment for NZers.

Yeah its nice srs. Won't complain about paying my taxes I'm getting them right back! haha his other income is a pension from the UK NHS. Rinsing two countries at once. That is how it is done.

Disgusting really.

[Pseudonym]

Come on guys... You've got a unique opportunity to have more input on this process than you'd ever normally get. Don't waste it shooting the messenger! :doh:

I have to confess - I tried reading that bill, but my eyes glazed over pretty quickly. Much respect to Dinahdad if he can work with that stuff! So that being said, here are my uneducated opinions...

I don't have a problem with businesses (big or small) being required to back up any claims they've made about their products. If they can't support it, they shouldn't say it.

Likewise, as a consumer, I'd like to know that what I'm buying is what I thought it was, and in the quantity/strength that I paid for.

Where I DO have a problem is if this legislation limits my choice of products - either because the increased costs make it nonviable for companies to do business here, or because the filter is too restrictive.

Instead of excluding everything except for "approved" products, I'd rather see a system where the default position was to allow everything, but where a blacklisted product could be removed from the shelves. That way the public could nominate a dodgy product, and the ministry could investigate the claims being made. If the manufacturer can't produce the evidence, THEN the product gets pulled - but not before.

Also, this should only cover products sold within NZ. You should be able to import products from overseas at your own risk.

[Android]

Am pretty sure none of the US supplements available don't have to prove that they work anymore, they've removed the claims since the FDA started on at them about it, they've done the workaround to this ridiculous govt. inteference....I need protecting because I'm an idiot :doh:

It's been replaced by marketing hype so we hear about 400% better and then in fine print results may vary, this product is not intended to cure or enlarge your tiny penis. That's the shit we should be protected from right there, marketing spin.

So, it's really a waste of time and money when it's pretty obvious to all us consumers what the workarounds are.

BTW,

This wouldn't have saved the milk powder scandel in China that's an incorrect assumption right there.

They do the tests, they did the tests.

The results came back as high in protein as stated...they're not going to do a "does this milk contain Melamine or Arsenic" test LOLOLOL

[HarryB]

Am pretty sure none of the US supplements available don't have to prove that they work anymore, they've removed the claims since the FDA started on at them about it, they've done the workaround to this ridiculous govt. inteference....I need protecting because I'm an idiot :doh:

It's been replaced by marketing hype so we hear about 400% better and then in fine print results may vary, this product is not intended to cure or enlarge your tiny penis. That's the shit we should be protected from right there, marketing spin.

So, it's really a waste of time and money when it's pretty obvious to all us consumers what the workarounds are.

BTW,

This wouldn't have saved the milk powder scandel in China that's stupid thinking right there.

They do the tests, they did the tests.

The results came back as high in protein as stated...they're not going to do a "does this milk contain Melamine or Arsenic" test LOLOLOL

Well that was more an issue of processing than an intentional attempt by the chinese to poison everyone! lol

[Dinahlady]

Come on guys... You've got a unique opportunity to have more input on this process than you'd ever normally get. Don't waste it shooting the messenger! :doh:

Lol you said it.

Also, this should only cover products sold within NZ. You should be able to import products from overseas at your own risk.

I definitely agree with this. But not to sell within NZ to the people of NZ. In the UK this is basically what happens. If I'm clever enough to read up on melanotan and decide i wanna take the risks associated with taking it then why shouldn't I be able to buy it from out of the UK online etc. Likewise if I am dumb enough to buy it without reading about it and use it then surely it is my fault. But still I'd rather know that what I am actually taking is melanotan and isn't made with like random other shit I might not want to be putting into my body.

However I think that saying wait until something goes dodge to test it isn't great cos then people are already getting hurt. Like the Chinese baby formula scandal it was too late and real babies actually died. If it was tested before for truth of ingredients then this would have been prevented. (although I realise this was a massive f*ck up and unlikely to happen a lot just illustrates my point)

It sucks at first because companies will have to get their products all tested to comply. But tbh in terms of busniess im pretty sure that you could plan in the cost of these tests into your business plan or whatever before launching a new product and it would just increase the cost of each item that you are projected to sell by like a dollar or something. (obviously I am just guessing) But I'm sure if the businesses are smart enough to work out anyway they can factor these extra costs in.

Its sad that maybe some products might not make it because of this new process but at the end of the day maybe the processes being introduced will force businesses to create products that actually work?! Surely you'd rather have that than something bogus.

They don't have to prove that they work they just have to not put on the label "Will cause 5kg weightloss in 2 days" or something outrageous. Its more to stop outrageous claims than to make every company test their products. For example if a company is selling vitamin C they don't have to test their claim that "vitimin C can help create a healthy immune system" or whatever. You guys are just making it seem more rediculous than it actually is.

[Android]

Would this bill cause people to pro-actively go and test Ribena before it went to market?

It's a drink, a juice, not a supplement and it was found to have been selling everyone a lie for 30-odd years. Would this bill have "prevented" a single sale or would it just be as it was...someone got around to testing it for the claim of loads of Vitamin C 30 years later....

[HarryB]

What exactly is rediculous? Now just poking fun.

[Dinahlady]

You're all ridiculous.

There.

I said it.

nt srs

[Android]

that's rediculous

intredasting, but rediculous

[Dinahlady]

None of you can spell ridiculous and this discredits all your arguments.

[hhhh1]

None of you can spell ridiculous and this discredits all your arguments.

You guys are just making it seem more rediculous than it actually is.

[Dinahlady]

LOL dammit. I'm dyslexic though....

I knew I did spell it wrong previously when I subsequently spelled it right.

Which makes my point even more valid?

[Todd]

They don't have to prove that they work they just have to not put on the label "Will cause 5kg weightloss in 2 days" or something outrageous

Pretty much all usa/canada based companies gaspari, usp, muscletech (not really fussed on these guys), pharma freak, isatori all have claims on their products such as "increase lean muscle mass, improve muscle recovery, loose body fat fast". Does that mean they are no longer allowed in NZ unless the labels are changed?

[Dinahlady]

They don't have to prove that they work they just have to not put on the label "Will cause 5kg weightloss in 2 days" or something outrageous

Pretty much all usa/canada based companies gaspari, usp, muscletech (not really fussed on these guys), pharma freak, isatori all have claims on their products such as "increase lean muscle mass, improve muscle recovery, loose body fat fast". Does that mean they are no longer allowed in NZ unless the labels are changed?

Like I said big companies will already comply with the standards. Companies that large already invest time into some kinds of scientific study before launching products its pretty much standard. It doesn't have to be 100% emperically true tested upon thousands but from their testing. NZ will probably be basing its regulations on pre existing regulations like in other countries etc its not like NZ suddenly gonna go lockdown on all supps. Not that it isnt pretty bad with the medsafe etc already geez.

[Dinahlady]

Basically its just going to be a weaker/watered down system of what Aus has at the moment and from my conversations with the gymeez guys aus is seen to be more lax about these kinda things than here.

Previously there were dietry supplement regulations but no regulations for herbs like western medical herbs, vitamins and minerals, homeopathy, chinese medecine, ayurveda etc etc. But the dietry supplements will come under this now but it isnt much different than what was there before for those guys.

Also Ribena etc doens't count under the bill it counts as a fortified food, even vitamin water does. So does protein powder etc.

I would of thought all you atheists would be pleased this means the homeopathic remedies are going to have to be put under testing. Most atheist fanboys love to hate on those.

Any more q's?

[Dinahlady]

Yeah its nice srs. Won't complain about paying my taxes I'm getting them right back! haha his other income is a pension from the UK NHS. Rinsing two countries at once. That is how it is done.

Disgusting really.

[tomleegolf]

Well done Dinahlady, I am very impressed by your intelligent replies to everyone. I think that a lot of these guys have watched too many conspiracy movies.

[Ronin]

Basically we can piss and moan about this as much as we want, but at the end of the day, The People's Republic of Kiwistan is NOT a democracy, so the govt will just go right ahead and do whatever the f*ck they want. We are all too imbecilic and self-destructive to know what we want, or what is right for ourselves and our families. Therefore the State must intervene for our own protection, even though we do not realise that it is in our best interests to have all decision-making abilities removed from our child-like hands.

So, 90%+ of the country doesn't want an anti-smacking law? "Too fucking bad, we're gonna pass it anyway. What are you gonna do about it?" "Well, we're gonna bitch and moan for a bit, then we'll get sick of it and distracted by something else and that'll be the end of it". And now the government is set to once again spend a metric f*ck-ton of money to "fix" a problem that doesn't really exist, hasn't existed for centuries, and pretty much doesn't need to be fixed...just left up to people to make their own responsible decisions.

"That government is best which governs least" - Henry David Thoreau

[Android]

Well done Dinahlady, I am very impressed by your intelligent replies to everyone. I think that a lot of these guys have watched too many conspiracy movies.

You're in on it too then?...gotta watch you :shock:

[Darkmanx]

Okay so a few things....

This will not cost taxpayers anything. The companies are the ones who have to pay to create evidence that their products are safe, true to claim and true to label.

Secondly, it will not affect any of the big label brands as they already comply with standards like this....

Its only going to affect small companies who distribute to or in NZ.

So small companies are getting hit with extra expenses.

And you're saying that's a good thing? How are they supposed to hire more staff and pay workers more if they're getting hit with extra expenses?

I can't believe what I'm reading...

Hey wookie, did you watch news last night. Looks like national cant do the math. This is the way they want to run NZ with smaller business closing and getting all the asian and europian companies into NZ Hence the sale of state assests. Anyway national is trying to force about 40 000 doll receivers into a a jobmarket that only about +- 4000 jobs at the moment. This was on news last night. And yes this bill is surely gonna kill the small business

[Wookie]

As one of the conspiracy theory oafs here, I recommend watching this video about what rampant government regulation has done to the USA.

42 mins long, but you can probably just watch the first 5mins then jump to any number of case studies...building consents, food products, lemonade stalls, drugs, prostitution etc.