Cycle advice/input needed

[Tayrab]

Hey all

Just need abit of advice from the more experienced. I'm 21 years old been training naturally for 4 years now started at 72kgs and at my heaviest/strongest bulked to around 95kg at 5'10(looked impressive in a shirt/singlet but put on a bit too much fat aswell). Just finished a cut and ended around 83kg not to sure about BF levels but was pretty lean and happy with how it went.Now looking to bulk again and add some more lean muscle.Have taken my diet/training very seriously (pretty much just been eat/sleep/training these last few years) and been wondering if its time to join the other side.

My question is what would the risks of running a cycle at my age be? Most boards seem to think that waiting until 25 is essential due to HPTA development and the possible permanent shutdown/damage running at this age could cause.Is this likely to occur?Would be running a 12 week cycle of Test E 500mg/Week,arimidex on hand if needed and pct ready to go too.

cheers

[thatwaslight]

No one can tell you what you will experience only what you might, what boards suggest being 25? Please tell me it's not bbing.com. I'm 99% sure that information will be based on bro science and not anything scientific.

You could be shut down permanently from one cycle or bounce back after years and years of use. However perma shutdown is very rare. But like I said no one can tell you if you will or won't, the only way to find out is to go through with it. You just have to weigh up risk and reward.

Doitphaggot

[train hard]

no extra risks of running gear at your age compared to any other age the risks are there regardless

[HarryB]

You'll never know until you go....

[Tayrab]

Thanks guys I was mainly concerned due to the number of threads I have read over at sites like steroidology.com/forums.steroid.com which seem to make one believe that when running a cycle before 25 years old the odds of permanent shutdown are extremely likely.Definitely didn't want to start too young and set myself up for failure.

[Hone]

Hey all

Just need abit of advice from the more experienced. I'm 21 years old been training naturally for 4 years now started at 72kgs and at my heaviest/strongest bulked to around 95kg at 5'10(looked impressive in a shirt/singlet but put on a bit too much fat aswell). Just finished a cut and ended around 83kg not to sure about BF levels but was pretty lean and happy with how it went.Now looking to bulk again and add some more lean muscle.Have taken my diet/training very seriously (pretty much just been eat/sleep/training these last few years) and been wondering if its time to join the other side.

My question is what would the risks of running a cycle at my age be? Most boards seem to think that waiting until 25 is essential due to HPTA development and the possible permanent shutdown/damage running at this age could cause.Is this likely to occur?Would be running a 12 week cycle of Test E 500mg/Week,arimidex on hand if needed and pct ready to go too.

cheers

It is a risk everytime we put something into our bodies. Permanent shutdown unlikly but yes it does happen from time to time. Plenty of guys out there at your age and younger doing gear and alot higher than 500mg per week.

No one can tell you what you should be doing, they can give advice but at the end of the day you are responsible for your actions.

12 weeks of Test E sounds good. Don't have the adex on standby take it E3D at 0.5mg. See how you get on with that. some take 0.5mg EOD. Taking an AI like adex will prevent bloat, stop test flu etc. Have some nolva on standby in case you start getting signs of gyno. If gyno does start to show then important you stop it early, 20mg of nolva per day for length of cycle.

I don't run any type of cycle without HCG. Taking it on cycle will greatly assist your recovery when you start your PCT. 1000iu once a week seems to be the standard dose. I personally take 500iu three times a week.

PCT of clomid/nolva

[AZIDE]

.

[Hone]

":1uli8fl9]why is it that when reading info from overseas (youre living in UK right Hone?) everyone is saying take adex on cycle, yet on here everone is saying not to take it (unless maybe sides are bad), since it will dry/f*ck your joints. serious question which is relevant to my planned cycle.

also is clomid really necessary for PCT, and is HCG even widely available in NZ?

Not sure why you say everyone does not like adex on this fourm. I don't spend much time on here to be fair. I think in general not just aimed at this fourm that many people do not understand the difference between an AI and a SERM and the correct use of the compounds.

Yes I'm in the UK. I never use to take an AI however will never do a cycle with out it now. Been taking adex for around 2 years now. I have personally have not had problems with dry joints while taking adex. Yes some guys do suffer from joint problems while on adex, aromasin is another option that guys can use.

No idea what the availability of HCG is like in NZ but widely available here and cheap as chips.

AI = Aromatase Inhibitor.

SERM = Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator.

HCG mimics LH (luteinizing hormone), LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG can be taken during cycle in which it will maintain testicular function or at the end of the cycle to kick start your testicular function.This is good as it make the job of clomid and nolvadex much easier. I prefer to use it on cycle. HCG can aromatize pretty heavily so another good reason to use adex (AI) or aromasin (AI). It is a lot stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary gland puts out.The trick is to use as little as possible to achieve success. So to sum up taking HCG is going to greatly assist the clomid (SERM) and nolvadex (SERM) when you start your PCT.

An average man will produce around 7mg of test per day (49mgs per week), some more some less. So a low dose of 250mgs of test a week can shut you down plus for the guys who just do a oral only cycle it will still shut you down.

PCT (post cycle therapy) - The object is to return your hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) back to producing it's own endogenous testosterone.

Clomid is a superier compound than nolvadex. Clomid can however cause some nasty side effects in some people hence they have no option but to just use nolvadex. Clomid at 100mg per day for 5 to 7 days will double LH and increase FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) by 20% to 50% per cent!! When you take clomid and nolva together they produce better results.

Clomid and nolva block estrogen. The body knows it is low in testosterone and as the estrogens suppressive effects are not there due to the receptors being blocked, the body (assisted by the clomid and nolva) will turn on the hypothalamus to produce GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH. FSH also stimulats the sertoli cells in the nuts to produce sperm.

That is a very brief description of how the compounds work.

There are plenty of people who don't use HCG or clomid just like there are people who don't do any PCT at all. Do they recover 100%. I can't say as I havn't seen their blood results. Maybe it just takes them longer to recover fully. Or maybe some don't fully recover but just don't realize it. I take HCG, clomid and nolva so I am giving my body the best possible chance of full recovery in the shortest amount of time. Although I do my share of blasting and crusing

[musclenz]

Most of Hone's comments are gtg. However, the reality of it in NZ is, that AI's are expensive to buy UG & doctors will not prescribe them in most cases to males for use as an anti-E. HCG is the same & is not readily available. You put the cost of HCG & AI's & SERMs on top of a cycle & many decide its just too much. So what has resulted is a mentality that you can survive without these except as an emergency backup. This is true where low dose cycles that are short term exist but typically there should be some anti-E present at a low dose during a standard or long term AAS cycle.

Clomid is not a good choice as an anti-E. It is only marginally effective in reducing estrogen levels on its own & must be used in conjunction with Nolvadex or an AI like Arimidex or Aromasin. Clomid works a bit like HCG in stimulating LH signals to the pituitary. Lets say its the poor mans choice & is best used straight after a cycle to do this. However, there are conflicting opinions on how & when to take it.

Aromasin is the better choice in PCT because of its ability to whack both E1 & E2 in the male body but is the more expensive & harder to find option in NZ. Adex is better on cycle because it does not reduce estrogen to too low a level to cause joint & growth problems. Yes you do need estrogen in the body to allow for muscle growth. Its part of the equation.

Yes you can recover HPTA & balance Estro/test levels without using HCG on cycle (best option) or as a big hit after your last shot of gear at the end of a cycle, but it just takes longer.

[Tayrab]

Yea I did look into running HCG but as mentioned it is pretty expensive to get hold of in New Zealand :/ As I said my main concern was starting too early and screwing my test production for life..TRT at 21 doesnt sound like fun and wasnt too sure on the whole hold off till 25 theory.Seems like the only way to know for sure is to just take the risk and go for it haha.

[dannyjay]

just go for it bro

if hcg was easier to get i'd use that for sure

[tomsammce]

the less stuff you need to use the better... who gives a f*ck about abit of bloat, i mean really its a 12 week cycle of 500mg/week or whatever it is. no need for any cancer medication ed -e3d.

[I Declare War]

the less stuff you need to use the better... who gives a f*ck about abit of bloat, i mean really its a 12 week cycle of 500mg/week or whatever it is. no need for any cancer medication ed -e3d.

This.