Squat technique

[Android]

Hey guys,

I notice my knees float inward during squatting, in this vid am doing a set of 180kg but I reckon my 200s prolly look worse.

Is this a problem, is it normal? Will it limit my maximum capable lift or will it leave me open to injury...?

How do I go about correcting it if this is a problem? Tips, ideas, most welcome from the powerLifting community!

[I Declare War]

Hey guys,

I notice my knees float inward during squatting, in this vid am doing a set of 180kg but I reckon my 200s prolly look worse.

Is this a problem, is it normal? Will it limit my maximum capable lift or will it leave me open to injury...?

How do I go about correcting it if this is a problem? Tips, ideas, most welcome from the powerLifting community!

I do the same... I find that my lack of flexibility is the cause of the issue. I find that when I bottom out on Squats my flexibility pulls my legs into the wrong groove so to speak. Looks like that's happening to you as well. Try loading up the bar with two plates per side and watch yourself in the mirror. Feel where the weight shifts over the soles of your feet. Does it shift away from the heels as you go lower?

You could try stretching your Quads. A good one is to stand facing away from the safety pins in the squat rack and hook a foot up on the safety pins... you can really feel the stretch in your quads doing that.

Looking forward to seeing some of the more experienced lifters give their 2c on this one myself! This is something I've been thinking of lately as well.

[Android]

cheers,

Here's a vid with 2pps, can see the start of the knees tracking but it's less prominent.

I do splay toes outward if that makes a difference to the track a knee will follow

[BeastBuilder]

I always find that having my weight on the outside of my feet, not just pushing through my heel helps with this.

So picture there is a crack in the floor running right down the middle of your squat stance and you're trying to push it open as you're pushing up. This should strengthen and activate your Hip Abductors (Gluteus Minimus etc) and it will become second nature once you get used to it. :nod:

[HarryB]

I would say one of the contributing factors is the fact that you come down slow and controlled until that last bit and then drop and almost bounce back up.

Maybe next squat workout pause in the bottom position of the squat, you won't be able to go as heavy as normal but your quads will fry and you'll be able to better address the issues of your knees coming in.

[I Declare War]

I would say one of the contributing factors is the fact that you come down slow and controlled until that last bit and then drop and almost bounce back up.

Maybe next squat workout pause in the bottom position of the squat, you won't be able to go as heavy as normal but your quads will fry and you'll be able to better address the issues of your knees coming in.

I did that this morning, works well. 8)

[Big john]

Best thing to do when squating into the hole is to really focus on forcing the knees out, by doing this this will allow you sit back more and stop the knees from tracking in

just my 2c 8)

[drizzt]

As I understand it, the issue with the knees coming inward is it puts greater stress on the weaker inner part of the knee, putting you at risk of a pretty hairy injury in this area (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here).

I remember when I had this issue, I did a bit of reading up on it (riffing now), and found that the general consensus is knees caving in are usually due to either overdeveloped muscles (taking over and forcing your knees into a different line), or weak/underdeveloped ones.

Bit of a search gave up this thread which has some good posts in it.

Knees caving in on squats

Probable Overactive Muscles:

-Adductor complex

-Biceps femoris (short head)

-TFL

-Vastus lateralis

Probable Underactive Muscles:

-Gluteus medius/maximus

-Vastus medialis oblique

This was a direct reference from a chart in the NASM book. The overactive muscles means that there is a lot of tension in this area and they are whats pulling your knees in during the movement. The underactive muscles are not providing equal leverage to allow for fluid movement in a natural ROM.

Bill Starr says:

Bill Starr":1kylve43]When an athlete’s knees turn inward when he’s squatting or pulling heavy weights, his adductors are relatively weaker than his quads and hams. It’s easy to spot once you know what you’re looking for, and the nice thing about working the adductors is that they respond to direct attention rather quickly.

So maybe look at these muscle groups and see if there is a culprit?

Otherwise technique could be a factor - tracking issues can sometimes be resolved by thinking about forcing the knees outward as you squat down.

When I was trying to fix my problem with it, a drill I was made to do was wrap a small band around the knees, and force your knees out against it as you descend. If you don't force the knees out, the band will fall down to the floor. As soon as you begin to sit back to squat, think about pushing the knees out. This post from the above link could also help if you're an office worker - potentially your hips are causing the issue?:

Hip flexors are tight (prob sits all day) Glutes are either inhibited or weak,,Start working on X Band Walks, Single Leg Bridging, Anterior reach..

What Beastbuilder said is good also, imagine spreading the floor with your feet. (I'm terrible at this - apparently being flat-footed isn't good for it - and it often results in Tibialis Anterior issues IME).

Also play with feet-positioning a bit more, I know you say they are splayed outwards, but try a few different ones. Ultra-wide, straight ahead etc... see what effect they have in relation to each other.

[Mike Zero]

It's just your legs finding their strongest pushing position.

Solution depends on what you want to get out of your squats.

[I Declare War]

It's just your legs finding their strongest pushing position.

That makes perfect sense and that's how I look at it. Well put.

As stated in my reply up there... with me, it's my lack of flexibility that that pulls my legs out of that groove. Maybe not the same with Android, but something to look into along with Drizzts suggestions of trying out different stances and working out possible muscle imbalances.

[Android]

cheers BigJohn, BeastBuilder and Harry - I'll have to drop back in weight to focus more on this, makes sense and I do this moreso with the lighter warm-ups...those warm-ups might become my Max for a while :shock:

cheers Drizzt, I've got some anatomy to read up on with those Latin names. My adductors don't get any direct work at all but I was thinking since adductors pull the Leg into the middle of the body they were fine and maybe it was my abductors that were weak...but Bill Starr says compared to Quads they aren't as strong as they should be.

cheers IDW, my Hip Flexors are tight as and always have been. I might have to review why I don't want to lay down for 10mins in the gym stretching them out.

cheers Mike Zero yeah from the vid it looks like my teardrop pulls them in.

I want to Squat a bit heavier yet remain injury-free.

I don't want to Squat so heavy that I injure myself but reckon 200kg Squats with good form to bodybuilder-sets and failure would satisfy me. I can now do 4 reps at 200kg...so got a bit more to push before I can get 12-rep sets out.

thanks for the feedback guys, will take it all onboard and drop back in weight and concentrate on form for a while, increasing only when I can do good steady sets.

[Riccardo]

Really common problem!

Basically, as Drizzt mentioned, It is a problem stemming from poor activation of the glutes and abductors, you need to strengthen these muscle groups to fix the problem. Focus on trying to spread the floor with your feet as you come up and do some accessory work for your glutes and abductors: GHR and box squats, glute bridges with bands etc etc.

Edit: abductors not adductors

[Pseudonym]

As I understand it, the issue with the knees coming inward is it puts greater stress on the weaker inner part of the knee, putting you at risk of a pretty hairy injury in this area (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here).

Very true. Pretty sure my current knee issues were caused in large part by this. A while back, my osteopath sister looked at my squat and hit the roof. Knees caving in with pressure on top is not a good combo - in fact I imagine it produces the same direction of force on the joint as a side kick to the knee, and we know that's not healthy!

It's actually one of my pet peeves, seeing a PT coach a client on squats - insisting that their knee must stay behind the toe at all times (I've never been able to see what good that does), while saying nothing about the fact their client was squatting so bow-leggedly his knees are almost touching. :evil:

It's just your legs finding their strongest pushing position.

That does make perfect sense, but the strongest pushing position (which may be affected by muscle imbalances as the others have said) isn't necessarily the best pushing position for joint health, surely? Better to fix the imbalances so that your strongest position moves to one that's good for your joints as well.

[Big john]

Some great tips here from California strength, been following them for accouple of weeks now, and they have some great squaters. the strength coaches are the real deal too v knowledgable

[nemesis]

Some great tips here from California strength, been following them for accouple of weeks now, and they have some great squaters. the strength coaches are the real deal too v knowledgable

Interesting video. Looked like the second guy lifting 190kg had the same inward floating knees that you were talking about Android.

[Android]

Wicked looks same ay, cheers Big John appreciate the link.

Have backed right off and will spend time on this, just want to lift safely not just heavy and looks like it will help with both

[Android]

Quick update, thanks again for your feedback and links they have helped me focus on what to strive for.

Backed off and did working sets at 100kg.

Concentrated on splitting the floor between my Legs. Really felt my teardrop worked more than my Quads doing it like this though, while that's ok for now I would prefer to feel the Quads more...

Could feel the blood rushing into the Legs so happy overall. Noticed that I don't have to splay toes outward as much as I was, locking the knees outward already seems to move knees outward enough.

Technique ok?

[BeastBuilder]

Looking much better, good work !

I think the VMO activation will just be getting used to the new technique, as it has probably not been used in this manner before since this technique is new to you, once it becomes ingrained you'll be able to focus a lot more on the Outer Quads and it will feel natural again :nod:

[Wookie]

Could move stance in slightly and bring the toe angle in even further if you want more quad activation.

[tinytraps]

technique at light weight is totally different to technique at the heavy weights. To get better technique with your working weights you need to practice with them

[Android]

Ok gotcha, will progress up like this and c what happens with the technique. First time was pretty tiring at such a low weight :oops:

I did find it less easy to drop low-low, didn't sink down as quickly more springy if that makes any sense, which for heavy weight sounds like a good thing...

Could move stance in slightly and bring the toe angle in even further if you want more quad activation.

Yeah I did feel that I can physically push knees out a lot so was thinking about this, my old wide stance isn't required if I change to this technique it seems, cheers!