i just dont understand.

[DANIEL8]

Taking slin means can still stay natty.

this

if taking insulin and hgh is fine because its undectable in tests etc or "nattyish" because they are produced by the body, surely taking testosterone should also be ok to claim natty (for guys). extra slin extra gh extra testosterone. all of them are made by the body.

what is the difference?

i just dont get it fellas,. enlighten me!

also i am aware twl was joking, and that my grammar and paraghraphing is worse than a 11 year olds.

[Diab0lic]

If the hormones in your blood stream were not made by your own brain, balls or pancreas, then natty you aint

[nate225]

If the hormones in your blood stream were not made by your own brain, balls or pancreas, then natty you aint

This.

PS - HGH is detectable by drug testing (only blood testing atm, though a urine test is in trial stages I believe). A British league player was first to be banned in 2010-11.

Unsure re: Insulin. Either way point is moot - use slin you're about as natural as Vader LOL :grin:

[Dinahlady]

If you're taking slin whilst not taking anything else at all then you're more than likely gonna be a fat f*ck anyway so who cares if you are natty or not... ???

Also I know a guy who is actually diabetic who tampers with his slin dose to help his gains at the gym... but doesn't take anything else... is this natty?

[hhhh1]

If you're taking slin whilst not taking anything else at all then you're more than likely gonna be a fat f*ck anyway so who cares if you are natty or not... ???

Also I know a guy who is actually diabetic who tampers with his slin dose to help his gains at the gym... but doesn't take anything else... is this natty?

if he was natty he wouldnt take any insulin at all and would most likely be dead

[nate225]

If you're taking slin whilst not taking anything else at all then you're more than likely gonna be a fat f*ck anyway so who cares if you are natty or not... ???

Also I know a guy who is actually diabetic who tampers with his slin dose to help his gains at the gym... but doesn't take anything else... is this natty?

if he was natty he wouldnt take any insulin at all and would most likely be dead

Does raise a good point re: Theraputic Use

Steaks hot on this topic as a guy he knows uses TRT prescribed by the Doctor so can't compete in NZPF Powerlifting for fear of being banned. No TUE (Theraputic Use Exemption) is available for Testosterone, however I'm sure it is for Insulin. Seems a little discriminatory to pick one hormone over the other and say to one guy "f*ck it - unless you drop your valid medication and get back to being a depressed estrogen filled girl you can't play with our weights"!! :pfft: :grin: and the to the diabetics say "sweet boys - heres your get out of jail free card"! :pfft: :grin:

Being a little sarcastic but it does raise a very valid point.

[tomsammce]

If you're taking slin whilst not taking anything else at all then you're more than likely gonna be a fat f*ck anyway so who cares if you are natty or not... ???

Also I know a guy who is actually diabetic who tampers with his slin dose to help his gains at the gym... but doesn't take anything else... is this natty?

if he was natty he wouldnt take any insulin at all and would most likely be dead

Does raise a good point re: Theraputic Use

Steaks hot on this topic as a guy he knows uses TRT prescribed by the Doctor so can't compete in NZPF Powerlifting for fear of being banned. No TUE (Theraputic Use Exemption) is available for Testosterone, however I'm sure it is for Insulin. Seems a little discriminatory to pick one hormone over the other and say to one guy "f*ck it - unless you drop your valid medication and get back to being a depressed estrogen filled girl you can't play with our weights"!! :pfft: :grin: and the to the diabetics say "sweet boys - heres your get out of jail free card"! :pfft: :grin:

Being a little sarcastic but it does raise a very valid point.

why doesnt the guy take a lower dosage of TRT then? so if and when he gets tested his testosterone levels will be in the normal range. testosterone doesnt show up as a compound in drug tests for example the test wouldnt come back positive for test cypionate or sustanon250 like it would for something like nandrolone.

the drug tests use a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio to determine a positive or negative result.

sounds like a weak excuse to me.

[tomsammce]

If you're taking slin whilst not taking anything else at all then you're more than likely gonna be a fat f*ck anyway so who cares if you are natty or not... ???

thats incorrect.

its everything to do with nutrition, how can you get fat if your nutrition is spot on. it doesnt come down to steroids when using insulin, although they can help.

insulin use by itself can increase a persons LH and FSH which both stimulate testosterone production

iv seen some of the heaviest gear users i know turn into fat shits on insulin so you worded you post pretty inaccuratly

[Dinahlady]

If you're taking slin whilst not taking anything else at all then you're more than likely gonna be a fat f*ck anyway so who cares if you are natty or not... ???

thats incorrect.

its everything to do with nutrition, how can you get fat if your nutrition is spot on. it doesnt come down to steroids when using insulin, although they can help.

insulin use by itself can increase a persons LH and FSH which both stimulate testosterone production

iv seen some of the heaviest gear users i know turn into fat shits on insulin so you worded you post pretty inaccuratly

Yes but the point of using insulin would be to achieve something that is not possible without it - or why would you use it. Therefore if you want increased anabolism you are going to have to fuel that differently therefore changing the goalposts of your "spot on" nutrition. Due to the nature of the action of the hormone you're going to have increased body fat unless you are doing something ot combat it i.e T3/Epic epic cardio with continued use of epic fatburners/HGH etc.

Exactly the same as when heavy gear users can turn into fat shits from using it, it is even easier for someone natty to have this happen to them.

I just think the use of slin on its own is counter productive, using it for anabolism is likely to increase bf, increased bf in itself causes more problems for muscle gains for someone who is otherwise natty than the gains from using slin would give.

The general consensus aswell is it is a hard substance to deal with, unless you are already really experienced, have shit shit hot nutrition/endo knowledge then using it on its own would inevetably do more harm than good IMO.

That is why I said "more than likely" not "100% completely definitely"

[tomsammce]

It's really not that complicated at all to be honest. Insulin doesn't make u fat, food does! Gear users who get fat on slim are lazy.

Sprinters use insulin Marion jones did and was she fat? No she wasn't, not lazy.

It's completley down to diet. If I was natural and could use nothing but could use slim alone I would, and I am highly confident I would benefit from

it.

Have you even used it before???

[Dinahlady]

It's really not that complicated at all to be honest. Insulin doesn't make u fat, food does! Gear users who get fat on slim are lazy.

Sprinters use insulin Marion jones did and was she fat? No she wasn't, not lazy.

It's completley down to diet. If I was natural and could use nothing but could use slim alone I would, and I am highly confident I would benefit from

it.

Have you even used it before???

No because I'd obviously get fat...

RAGEEEEEE

Going to have to do it now to demonstrate it for you.

Okay you do my diet, I'll get the slin... we'll see where I end up... it wont be pretty!

[tomsammce]

well you could use some test with it and see where you end up lol

anyway i do agree with you that using steroids with insulin is much more beneficial than without but that wasnt really the point of my argument.

peace

[nate225]

if he was natty he wouldnt take any insulin at all and would most likely be dead

Does raise a good point re: Theraputic Use

Steaks hot on this topic as a guy he knows uses TRT prescribed by the Doctor so can't compete in NZPF Powerlifting for fear of being banned. No TUE (Theraputic Use Exemption) is available for Testosterone, however I'm sure it is for Insulin. Seems a little discriminatory to pick one hormone over the other and say to one guy "f*ck it - unless you drop your valid medication and get back to being a depressed estrogen filled girl you can't play with our weights"!! :pfft: :grin: and the to the diabetics say "sweet boys - heres your get out of jail free card"! :pfft: :grin:

Being a little sarcastic but it does raise a very valid point.

why doesnt the guy take a lower dosage of TRT then? so if and when he gets tested his testosterone levels will be in the normal range. testosterone doesnt show up as a compound in drug tests for example the test wouldnt come back positive for test cypionate or sustanon250 like it would for something like nandrolone.

the drug tests use a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio to determine a positive or negative result.

sounds like a weak excuse to me.

I"ll indulge your know all mother f*cker mood tonight just this once Tom! :pfft: :grin:

You would have to use a very low level of T to meet normal "range" as you call it. It's not just a case of getting the same T level as a 'normal' person as a Doctor aims for with TRT, it needs to factor Epitestosterone levels as well (so a lower does may exceed this anyway as these are usually 1:1 in the norm - I'm guessing but low T may equal low E as well?).

T:E ratios are tight too. They were once 9:1, then 6:1 and now from memory are 4:1. Where this range is exceeded a isotope ratio mass spectrometry test is used to confirm exogenous source of testosterone (carbon skeleton isotopes differ).

Why would a guy who is simply looking after a medical condition (low test) through a valid prescribed medication want to risk entering a competition where he could test positive and have his name published as a "drug cheat". :?

Just my thoughts though....