Pre Contest Cutting Cycle Qs

[MrSI]

I am trying to get in nice and early to get myself prepared and to get some feedback from you guys to help me out. I have done alot of looking around and have found something i like the sound of but wouldnt mind tweeking it slightly to fit my needs a bit better. I just have a couple of questions id like to get some feedback or advice on.

The cycle is:

1 – 10 Test Propionate 100mg/EOD

1 – 8 Masteron 100mg/EOD

1 – 6 Anavar 40mg/day

11 – 15 Nolvadex 20mg/day

Now this cycle is for 10 weeks i had planned on cutting for 12-16 weeks (prefer 12 but realistic its going to be 16... :roll: ). So my first question is can i run Masteron 100mg/EOD for say 12 weeks and Anavar 40mg/day for 10 weeks or is this a no go :naughty: , if not what would your suggestions be??

also in almost all the cycles i read they used Test Prop not Test E so their must be a good reason for that but as i will have some test e left over from a previous cycle could i run that insteed or even just for the first half then go onto prop or is it not as good for cutting?? (it also means less pinning).

Next Question is contest timing, going off the 10week plan above would i time it so that my show is at the end of the 10th week or do i need time to come of it?

And would you add anything else to it, with most of the compounds being taken at the start then coming off them as you progress through would you sugest say running winny or clen at the end of the cycle, or no need?

Haha Also please dont say: 95% of it is getting your diet/ training right... i totally understand this but would like some advice on nailing that exta 5%.

:pray:

thank you!!

[Diab0lic]

As far as the prop vs enanthate goes, I'm pretty sure prop is favoured due to quicker onset of action, less potential for bloating (solved by running an AI) and quicker to get out of your system in the case of tested comps so you can pin closer to the date. Otherwise test is test is test.

Haven't run masteron so won't comment on how to do it.

[MrSI]

Yeah contest are not test so not a biggy, but would make more sense for someone who is reading it wanting to compete in a tested comp i guess. Am thinking i will start runing the Test E a couple weeks ealier so it can build up then once it has gone swith to Prob but not sure of the transition as one is obviously quicker than the other... :?

cheers

[Hone]

Here's an example of a cutting cycle, test, deca

Here's an example of a bulking cycle test, deca

Cutting cycle = less food

Bulking cycle = more food

The drugs needn't change. Diet is everything, the only factor to be concerned with when trying to cut is the control of water retention so switching to short esters we can remove the drug from our system and within 48 hours or so be shot of the water retention the drug was causing, in other words the short estered drug causes exactly the same effect as it's longered estered brother, if we were a week out from a show and still looking watery and dropped the drug (long estered)we would most likly be looking at a fortnight to see the water go rather than the 2 days when using a short estered drug. That is the only reason why competitive bodybuilders use short acting esters in the latter half of their contest prep.

Another misconception about when starting a cutting cycle that people have taken broscience as gospel is they like to wait for the drugs to kick in (longer esters) before dropping their calories which can be 10 days plus. in realilty blood plasma levels peak within about 48 hours for virtually all ASS (short and long estered) introduced into the system, contrary to what many have convinced themselves of. Start dropping those calories straight away.

There no magic cutting formula out there, having a very good understanding of nutrition and how effects YOUR body is the key. The drug part is easy it is the nutrition side that will have a huge effect on winning or loseing. I am doing a 4 year degree in sports nutrition just so I have a better understanding of the subject.

The best advice I can give to you is record, record and record everything you do. (training, diet, drugs, how you feel etc etc)That way over a peroid of time you will build up a valuable data base of information relevant to YOU.

[MrSI]

after the first 5 lines you had almost lost me! after i said i just wanted to know about the drugs for that extra 5% didnt want to hear about the other 95% and then you started going on about the nutrition straight away :doh: ... haha but good save thanks for explaining that, thats very handy. nutrition aside for just a second if you think you can, obviously some drugs will be better than others for cutting thats what i am wanting to know more about and people experiences. If i dont win lotto in the next 3months i will probably have to drop the Anavar and try clen maybe?

cheers

[Android]

how much muscle mass do have?

Your Anavar looks enough for a 50kg competitor is all. Have used 60mg and 100mg/ day.

With any Test you will get some water retention but you can cut Prop out easier and cleaner closer to the comp date than you can with longer esters.

Personally I would pin Enanthate as a base for the week and do your current EOD with Prop. On paper it just gives a smoother blood level betwen spikes if you miss one day pinning and it's an extra 200-300mg/week which is helpful during cutting cos 350mg isn't much. It is very common to gain muscle mass while cutting for a comp so I'd give yourself a chance.

Then last few weeks before comp stop the Enanthate just do your EOD Prop with the 350mg/ week. So if show is at Week 10, and you were doing let's say 650mg/week Test you'd lower that over the last two weeks to let water retention drop to your 100mg EOD or 350mg/week Prop only.

You're doing Masteron, would hope it is Masteron Prop and not just Test Prop...but if it is you should use it closer to the comp unless you want to use Tren. Masteron or Tren will give you that hard drier look that you want on stage, not necessary 10 weeks out imo. Of course nothing wrong with looking like that 10 weeks out, just not necessary is all...Tren-A gives pretty good results within 6 weeks and when the body fat is low enough to see the muscle.

Bit of generalising in my post, don't know what you look like or your body composition, or how many cycles you've done...just sharing what I do and some of what my friends do. If you're a first timer with gear then ignore the recommendation to take more Test!

Just read hone's post

Agree with nutrition and record, record, record. Can't make changes based on guessing.

Also we agree about why people switch to short esters, it's onyl because you can stop it short of the show (I'd drop Enanthate out 2 weeks prior and I even drop all Test 2 days out I think from memory and go into show with Tren and Winny).

Also agree on long esters, Deca half-life is 6 days yet many talk of no benefits until 6 weeks later.

But Deca for cutting? I don't agree. I've tried Dianabol 4 weeks out from a show for giggles and gained 1 and 1/2" on my waist from blowing up so am extra gun-shy about these anabolics close to a show. How can you make rational decisions about bodyfat using caliper skin-fold test when alot of it is water? You can't imo.

Disclaimer: I haven't used Deca close to a show maybe Hone has, but I'd stop it at least 4 weeks out, but then if I was taking any anabolic that close to the show I'd want it to be Boldenone :pfft:

[MrSI]

:pray: :clap: brilliant! thanks very much thats awesome and what i am wanting to know! i agree with skin folds to used to do them every month same day same time same trainer and they were up and down like a whore knickers. from experience and to look at i would estimate imo i would be 18ish% and sit around 103-105kg (with weedy arms... :cry: )

thanks a lot for your post!

[Hone]

how much muscle mass do have?

Your Anavar looks enough for a 50kg competitor is all. Have used 60mg and 100mg/ day.

With any Test you will get some water retention but you can cut Prop out easier and cleaner closer to the comp date than you can with longer esters.

Personally I would pin Enanthate as a base for the week and do your current EOD with Prop. On paper it just gives a smoother blood level betwen spikes if you miss one day pinning and it's an extra 200-300mg/week which is helpful during cutting cos 350mg isn't much. It is very common to gain muscle mass while cutting for a comp so I'd give yourself a chance.

Then last few weeks before comp stop the Enanthate just do your EOD Prop with the 350mg/ week. So if show is at Week 10, and you were doing let's say 650mg/week Test you'd lower that over the last two weeks to let water retention drop to your 100mg EOD or 350mg/week Prop only.

You're doing Masteron, would hope it is Masteron Prop and not just Test Prop...but if it is you should use it closer to the comp unless you want to use Tren. Masteron or Tren will give you that hard drier look that you want on stage, not necessary 10 weeks out imo. Of course nothing wrong with looking like that 10 weeks out, just not necessary is all...Tren-A gives pretty good results within 6 weeks and when the body fat is low enough to see the muscle.

Bit of generalising in my post, don't know what you look like or your body composition, or how many cycles you've done...just sharing what I do and some of what my friends do. If you're a first timer with gear then ignore the recommendation to take more Test!

Just read hone's post

Agree with nutrition and record, record, record. Can't make changes based on guessing.

Also we agree about why people switch to short esters, it's onyl because you can stop it short of the show (I'd drop Enanthate out 2 weeks prior and I even drop all Test 2 days out I think from memory and go into show with Tren and Winny).

Also agree on long esters, Deca half-life is 6 days yet many talk of no benefits until 6 weeks later.

But Deca for cutting? I don't agree. I've tried Dianabol 4 weeks out from a show for giggles and gained 1 and 1/2" on my waist from blowing up so am extra gun-shy about these anabolics close to a show. How can you make rational decisions about bodyfat using caliper skin-fold test when alot of it is water? You can't imo.

Disclaimer: I haven't used Deca close to a show maybe Hone has, but I'd stop it at least 4 weeks out, but then if I was taking any anabolic that close to the show I'd want it to be Boldenone :pfft:

Yep with deca just stop it early enough. Must try NPP sometime and see how that goes. Skin fold callipers! I got access to better ways of measuring bro :grin: underwater weighing, DEXA (dual energy x ray absorptiometry).

Mr SI yeah reread your post and see what info you wanted, sorry fella on a heavy cycle of DNP at the mo and my brain is fried :grin: Got sick of sleeping in a pool of sweat so got up (5am here).

You mentioned anavar, winny and clen, now I know you know that 2 of those are ASS and one is used for weight loss. Is it using clen to help strip off the fat you want to know about?

[Chemo]

how much muscle mass do have?

Your Anavar looks enough for a 50kg competitor is all. Have used 60mg and 100mg/ day.

that dosage of var on top of mast wouldn't be enough to cut up?

[Android]

how much muscle mass do have?

Your Anavar looks enough for a 50kg competitor is all. Have used 60mg and 100mg/ day.

that dosage of var on top of mast wouldn't be enough to cut up?

Didn't think about the synergy that's a good point :-) but then I haven't met anyone that's done Mast plus Anavar.

I do know that with Tren plus Anavar it had to be 100mg/day for me even when Tren was 100mg EOD so just made an assumption, have you tried that combination or know anyyone cos it's an interesting angle and be good if there was some synergy to learn about, cheers Chemo

What I was thinking when I was deciding on dosage was:

1. That it was a replacement for Winny (Winny is the poor man's Anavar), and I am not aware that anyone takes less Winny when they combine it with Tren...

2. I got hooked on the pump its famous for and 100mg did it for me, farrrrk!

3. I noticed it drying me out without the sore joints that Winny gives so wasn't prepared to lower my dose to see if it worked with less when the comp date was looming

4. At 60mg/day it was noticeable just, but once I tried 100mg there was no turning back :twisted:

[Chemo]

how much muscle mass do have?

Your Anavar looks enough for a 50kg competitor is all. Have used 60mg and 100mg/ day.

that dosage of var on top of mast wouldn't be enough to cut up?

Didn't think about the synergy that's a good point :-) but then I haven't met anyone that's done Mast plus Anavar.

I do know that with Tren plus Anavar it had to be 100mg/day for me even when Tren was 100mg EOD so just made an assumption, have you tried that combination or know anyyone cos it's an interesting angle and be good if there was some synergy to learn about, cheers Chemo

What I was thinking when I was deciding on dosage was:

1. That it was a replacement for Winny (Winny is the poor man's Anavar), and I am not aware that anyone takes less Winny when they combine it with Tren...

2. I got hooked on the pump its famous for and 100mg did it for me, farrrrk!

3. I noticed it drying me out without the sore joints that Winny gives so wasn't prepared to lower my dose to see if it worked with less when the comp date was looming

4. At 60mg/day it was noticeable just, but once I tried 100mg there was no turning back :twisted:

Nah never tried it mate, don't know anyone who has either.

2012 is the year of var for me

From what i've read from international forums that for us mere mortals (sub 100kgs) 50-60mg does the trick, even if just running solo for a period of time that dosage does well for body composition. 100mg must be a cracker time!

*disclaimer I am novice gear user, dont listen to me at all*

My questioning came from the idea that test with the mast is gonna control that estrogen/water retention quite well, and have some androgenic effect on top of that. So if the diet is spot on, or even reasonable, the addition of a strong androgenic AAS like var/winny would be the icing on the cake?

Because var is quite expensive my solution would be to lower the var and get some filthy clen in there. Cheap as chips and direct, as long as you don't mind the sides.

Winny may not be a bad option, cheaper. And from what i've learned from that other topic binds to shbg (thanks NZBB), so even better for estrogen control.

On a side note, I was reading an article saying nolvadex reduces joint stiffness when using something like Winny. Can anyone confirm?

[Android]

So if the diet is spot on, or even reasonable, the addition of a strong androgenic AAS like var/winny would be the icing on the cake

Anavar a strong androgenic?

Not sure if you will notice any strength gains from it to call it that, might want to check your references again....

You're prolly right about Mast with Test, same as Tren is with Test so good call on that mate novice or not.

Be keen to hear what you thought of Var when you do it, cheers

[Chemo]

Mmm bad choice of words maybe lol

I know it's known as a mild AAS what I meant to say is that it's known for is fat burning, lean gaining and mainly androgenic effects, rather than anabolic.

From what u've said it doesn't increase strength? ... Bugger lol

Will write something up when I try it solo as a bridge and with test an prov combo