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winstrol on a bulking cycle?

h-towngear

By h-towngear
in Steroids & prescription meds

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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A small dose of winny will decrease SHBG and free up test and other androgens so yes winny on a bulking cycle will help! There is a good post in the S/PH forum viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13971&start=40

See IDW's article and my cliffs below.

The important points from the article:

-Dose for dose you get more active drug from injection vs oral.

-Injecting is more liver toxic.

-Injectable=more nitrogen retention=better for size gains.

-Oral = greater synergy with other drugs (primarily by lowering SHBG).

-0.2mg/kg oral dose is enough to lower SHBG by 50%, making any test based cycle more effective.

-Woman should avoid oral winstrol due to this synergy. Increased testosterone=increased virilization.

Summary: take a small 0.2mg/kg oral dose (20mg/day for a 100kg bodybuilder) of winstrol with your cycle as it lowers SHBG and reduces the effects of estrogen and progesterone. Don't take it orally if you have a vagina and don't take for extended periods of time as its highly liver toxic and bad for your cholesterol.

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I Declare War Veteran member

I Declare War

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yep good pointing that out Riccardo.. I'd forgotten about that.

disclaimer:

oh and btw anyone reading my quoted post in daz's in that link there... as far as I now know winny doesn't get dealkylated. the 17-aa is part of the molecule as far as im aware - it just makes the thing get past the liver.. there's no "de-alkylation" per se. i have no idea what the chemical breakdown pathway of winny is (or other orals).

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Vader69 Member

Vader69

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i know thats what i thought. he said it would free up test and make the other gear work better.

Btw im taking 1000mg Test E and 400mg Tren E

dont bother with the winny lol

Do you usually advise on stuff youve never tried?

Just a question...

lol ok go ahead and take 100 mgs of winny a week ull get huge brah

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samoan_muscle Veteran member

samoan_muscle

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dont bother with the winny lol

Do you usually advise on stuff youve never tried?

Just a question...

lol ok go ahead and take 100 mgs of winny a week ull get huge brah

You've missed the point entirely.

Would you get hyyuuuggge on 100mg ED of winstrol? No.

So what is your point?

Winny, even in small doses, can lower SHBG and thereby increase free testosterone.

Go advise on products you've tried e.g. superpump and celltech.

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musclenz Veteran member

musclenz

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-Injecting is more liver toxic.

why is injecting Winstrol more liver toxic than oral?

I would have thought it missed the first pass through the liver... :shock:

That is not right as injection misses the first pass through the liver so it technically stresses the liver less than orally. Winny/Stanz is hard to justify on a bulking cycle although its very anabolic nature & ability to greatly reduce SHBG & therefore allow for more Free Test to be avail for protein synthesis in muscle cells, could be a good enough reason to use in this way. It does have good synergy with other AAS compounds particularly DHT derivatives Masteron & when using Trenbolone it keeps sides to a minimum for some reason. However, it primarily is a cutting compound. Use Stanz injection for superior performance IMO.

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samoan_muscle Veteran member

samoan_muscle

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-Injecting is more liver toxic.

why is injecting Winstrol more liver toxic than oral?

I would have thought it missed the first pass through the liver... :shock:

That is not right as injection misses the first pass through the liver so it technically stresses the liver less than orally. Winny/Stanz is hard to justify on a bulking cycle although its very anabolic nature & ability to greatly reduce SHBG & therefore allow for more Free Test to be avail for protein synthesis in muscle cells, could be a good enough reason to use in this way. It does have good synergy with other AAS compounds particularly DHT derivatives Masteron & when using Trenbolone it keeps sides to a minimum for some reason. However, it primarily is a cutting compound. Use Stanz injection for superior performance IMO.

What would your recommended inj dose and frequency be MNZ?

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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-Injecting is more liver toxic.

why is injecting Winstrol more liver toxic than oral?

I would have thought it missed the first pass through the liver... :shock:

That is not right as injection misses the first pass through the liver so it technically stresses the liver less than orally. Winny/Stanz is hard to justify on a bulking cycle although its very anabolic nature & ability to greatly reduce SHBG & therefore allow for more Free Test to be avail for protein synthesis in muscle cells, could be a good enough reason to use in this way. It does have good synergy with other AAS compounds particularly DHT derivatives Masteron & when using Trenbolone it keeps sides to a minimum for some reason. However, it primarily is a cutting compound. Use Stanz injection for superior performance IMO.

This also seemed a bit counter intuitive to me but I did some reading and found and it seems that although some of the compound undergoes first pass metabolism when taken orally some is also metabolised by enzymes in the gut, not hepatic enzymes. Also some of the compound is not absorbed from the gut thus less of an administered dose actually ends up reaching the liver. However when injected, the dose is not exposed to metabolising enzymes within the gut and all of the dose reaches the blood stream therefore more of it passes through the liver in a form that is toxic. That is to say more of an injected dose reaches the liver than an orally administered dose therefore higher dose reaching the liver = increased liver stress.

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h-towngear Junior member

h-towngear

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Do you usually advise on stuff youve never tried?

Just a question...

lol ok go ahead and take 100 mgs of winny a week ull get huge brah

You've missed the point entirely.

Would you get hyyuuuggge on 100mg ED of winstrol? No.

So what is your point?

Winny, even in small doses, can lower SHBG and thereby increase free testosterone.

Go advise on products you've tried e.g. superpump and celltech.

Thanks for correcting this fool. Obviously the idea was not to get huge off the winny but for it to help with the other gear in my cycle.

And thanks for the advice guys will try it 4x a week and see how it goes

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Vader69 Member

Vader69

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Posted

Do you usually advise on stuff youve never tried?

Just a question...

lol ok go ahead and take 100 mgs of winny a week ull get huge brah

You've missed the point entirely.

Would you get hyyuuuggge on 100mg ED of winstrol? No.

So what is your point?

Winny, even in small doses, can lower SHBG and thereby increase free testosterone.

Go advise on products you've tried e.g. superpump and celltech.

dont be a phaggot

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Android Veteran member

Android

Posted
Posted
-Injecting is more liver toxic.

why is injecting Winstrol more liver toxic than oral?

I would have thought it missed the first pass through the liver... :shock:

That is not right as injection misses the first pass through the liver so it technically stresses the liver less than orally. Winny/Stanz is hard to justify on a bulking cycle although its very anabolic nature & ability to greatly reduce SHBG & therefore allow for more Free Test to be avail for protein synthesis in muscle cells, could be a good enough reason to use in this way. It does have good synergy with other AAS compounds particularly DHT derivatives Masteron & when using Trenbolone it keeps sides to a minimum for some reason. However, it primarily is a cutting compound. Use Stanz injection for superior performance IMO.

This also seemed a bit counter intuitive to me but I did some reading and found and it seems that although some of the compound undergoes first pass metabolism when taken orally some is also metabolised by enzymes in the gut, not hepatic enzymes. Also some of the compound is not absorbed from the gut thus less of an administered dose actually ends up reaching the liver. However when injected, the dose is not exposed to metabolising enzymes within the gut and all of the dose reaches the blood stream therefore more of it passes through the liver in a form that is toxic. That is to say more of an injected dose reaches the liver than an orally administered dose therefore higher dose reaching the liver = increased liver stress.

Yeah but it's a 2nd pass cos it's already in the blood stream, 2nd pass is not so aggressive is it.

I reckon this list came about when everyone was talking bout drinking the Depot...remember those threads?

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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Not quite sure what you mean? The only difference between 2nd and 1st pass is basically if the compound has come straight from the gut = 1st pass or has already passed through the portal circulation without being metabolised and makes it to the liver again = 2nd pass. I spose you could call metabolism of injected winny 2nd pass but really there is no difference.

1st pass is no more aggressive than 2nd. Unless you mean that a larger dose has to be metabolised all at once during first pass? In which case liver damage occurs more profoundly when stressed consistently over time as opposed to an acute stress (except for acute stress of a very large magnitude).

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musclenz Veteran member

musclenz

Posted
Posted
-Injecting is more liver toxic.

why is injecting Winstrol more liver toxic than oral?

I would have thought it missed the first pass through the liver... :shock:

That is not right as injection misses the first pass through the liver so it technically stresses the liver less than orally. Winny/Stanz is hard to justify on a bulking cycle although its very anabolic nature & ability to greatly reduce SHBG & therefore allow for more Free Test to be avail for protein synthesis in muscle cells, could be a good enough reason to use in this way. It does have good synergy with other AAS compounds particularly DHT derivatives Masteron & when using Trenbolone it keeps sides to a minimum for some reason. However, it primarily is a cutting compound. Use Stanz injection for superior performance IMO.

What would your recommended inj dose and frequency be MNZ?

50 - 100mg EOD. Stanz inj can be quite expensive to use at this rate.

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musclenz Veteran member

musclenz

Posted
Posted
-Injecting is more liver toxic.

why is injecting Winstrol more liver toxic than oral?

I would have thought it missed the first pass through the liver... :shock:

That is not right as injection misses the first pass through the liver so it technically stresses the liver less than orally. Winny/Stanz is hard to justify on a bulking cycle although its very anabolic nature & ability to greatly reduce SHBG & therefore allow for more Free Test to be avail for protein synthesis in muscle cells, could be a good enough reason to use in this way. It does have good synergy with other AAS compounds particularly DHT derivatives Masteron & when using Trenbolone it keeps sides to a minimum for some reason. However, it primarily is a cutting compound. Use Stanz injection for superior performance IMO.

This also seemed a bit counter intuitive to me but I did some reading and found and it seems that although some of the compound undergoes first pass metabolism when taken orally some is also metabolised by enzymes in the gut, not hepatic enzymes. Also some of the compound is not absorbed from the gut thus less of an administered dose actually ends up reaching the liver. However when injected, the dose is not exposed to metabolising enzymes within the gut and all of the dose reaches the blood stream therefore more of it passes through the liver in a form that is toxic. That is to say more of an injected dose reaches the liver than an orally administered dose therefore higher dose reaching the liver = increased liver stress.
Yes I have heard that arguement Riccardo. I'm not sure if there is any science behind it. But regardless, I will continue to argue that inj is superior to oral administration & that either way it is quite hepatotoxic.
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Pete_S Member

Pete_S

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From a bunch of reading over the years Winstrol is the only oral that is recommended over it's injectable version from a mg/mg effectiveness of the compound

Oral Winstrol is also much cheaper than the injectable version (as MNZ noted).

Can't comment on liver toxicity of oral v injectable winstrol though although Android is right in his comments for orals having a harsher impact on the liver (particulary D-Bol, Anadrol, M-Tren) than injectables - although not sure about Winstrol

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