Building a Big Lift, & Frequency of Training

[nzmusclemonster]

Like everyone else, I'm completely blown away by your progress in 2011. But I can semi see where IDW is coming from. How are the joints coping with the workload?

[drizzt]

Good grind on the 280 :clap:

Cheers Steak! Made it look harder than it should've been huh? :pfft: Just need to remember to keep the upper back tight, but that'll come with more time under these weights. Feels like I've almost skipped the 200s which is a little bit intimidating tbh, stepping into the unknown quite often.

Like everyone else, I'm completely blown away by your progress in 2011. But I can semi see where IDW is coming from. How are the joints coping with the workload?

Thanks bro! Are you doing more next year?

Re: IDW yeah man, I know he means well. And completely agree with him on rest and nutro being absolutely essential... I was just a bit irked by the style of training being written off as "obsessive compulsive and nothing else" (nothing but OCD, really?), but what got me laughing was that my gains "may be ok, but not optimal". Kinda makes me wonder what I could've got with a "real" training program? :pfft: Must jump on one this year!

Long story short - joints are better than they've been in years :nod: The long version is:

The main issues I've had in injuries this year have been a shoulder nerve, and pretty bad adductor soreness. Shoulder has been a long time coming - both are fairly bad from rugby, being part of the CHARMS brigade for years didn't help (overdeveloped front delts, weak rear delts/upper back), as well as having had bad posture for ages which also contributed... but all of the squat and bench volume kinda set it off. However it's been fixed mainly by simply rolling it out with a tennis ball (as well as The Magic Doc :pray:)

As for the adductors, they only flare up after a deload, and then try to jump onto a higher volume template. When I squat more than a couple of times a week for a week or two they're all good.

Things that have been fixed - or at least aren't a hassle anymore - this year include my hip/pelvic alignment, lower back issues, and hip soreness when squatting. I also used to get knee soreness (again, rugby stuff) but that has ironed itself out and I haven't felt anything bad down those ways for almost the whole year. Wrapping and wearing knee sleeves has helped here I think.

Oops, sorry for the long reply!

[nzmusclemonster]

Thanks bro! Are you doing more next year?

Re: IDW yeah man, I know he means well. And completely agree with him on rest and nutro being absolutely essential... I was just a bit irked by the style of training being written off as "obsessive compulsive and nothing else" (nothing but OCD, really?), but what got me laughing was that my gains "may be ok, but not optimal". Kinda makes me wonder what I could've got with a "real" training program? :pfft: Must jump on one this year!

Long story short - joints are better than they've been in years :nod: The long version is:

The main issues I've had in injuries this year have been a shoulder nerve, and pretty bad adductor soreness. Shoulder has been a long time coming - both are fairly bad from rugby, being part of the CHARMS brigade for years didn't help (overdeveloped front delts, weak rear delts/upper back), as well as having had bad posture for ages which also contributed... but all of the squat and bench volume kinda set it off. However it's been fixed mainly by simply rolling it out with a tennis ball (as well as The Magic Doc :pray:)

As for the adductors, they only flare up after a deload, and then try to jump onto a higher volume template. When I squat more than a couple of times a week for a week or two they're all good.

Things that have been fixed - or at least aren't a hassle anymore - this year include my hip/pelvic alignment, lower back issues, and hip soreness when squatting. I also used to get knee soreness (again, rugby stuff) but that has ironed itself out and I haven't felt anything bad down those ways for almost the whole year. Wrapping and wearing knee sleeves has helped here I think.

Oops, sorry for the long reply!

Yea nice answer. I guess it also comes down to what the Barbarian Brothers used to say as well.... "There's no such thing as weak bodies... only weak minds."

As for me... maybe do another one. Need to up my game. Been to the gym about 3 times since bbro. Went today and stupid shittyfitness was closed!

[drizzt]

Yea nice answer. I guess it also comes down to what the Barbarian Brothers used to say as well.... "There's no such thing as weak bodies... only weak minds."

As for me... maybe do another one. Need to up my game. Been to the gym about 3 times since bbro. Went today and stupid shittyfitness was closed!

True true...

Ahh stink man, I don't miss that about shinyland! I remember having to get in before noon on the public holidays or they'd shut. Good thing the House is pretty much 24/7!

[I Declare War]

Yea nice answer. I guess it also comes down to what the Barbarian Brothers used to say as well.... "There's no such thing as weak bodies... only weak minds."

As for me... maybe do another one. Need to up my game. Been to the gym about 3 times since bbro. Went today and stupid shittyfitness was closed!

True true...

Ahh stink man, I don't miss that about shinyland! I remember having to get in before noon on the public holidays or they'd shut. Good thing the House is pretty much 24/7!

Don't get me wrong dizzt... it is in the numbers. You've shown that.

I just reckon you could have gotten there training those exercises only twice, or even once, per week. In that sense you're gains aren't optimal. Still good gains though.

[drizzt]

Was on my way out when I got a txt from HarryB (I can confirm he does exist and is very large!) saying he was keen to pop in for a look. He threw around a few weights but we didn't do too much, had a bit of a chat and he gave me some good advices on Bench and Dead in particular. We've scheduled a legs session for Saturday morning with a couple of the other lads which should be interesting :nod:

Hmmm still not convinced, could be computer generated msg in combination with an advanced hologram.

aliens or hes Borg

I will try to get video footage of this elusive man. He did seem kinda ethereal when I shook his hand :think:

Don't get me wrong dizzt... it is in the numbers. You've shown that.

I just reckon you could have gotten there training those exercises only twice, or even once, per week. In that sense you're gains aren't optimal. Still good gains though.

Thanks for the very last part!

For the rest... I kinda think I am getting you wrong, because - and I'm sorry for blowing my own trumpet for a bit - I haven't heard of anyone who squats once or twice a week get gains like this (unless they were on gear, or newby gains, of which neither apply to me). Lemme just say this much:

I didn't squat 4x per week the whole way through the 7-8 months, there were, in fact, maybe 9 or 10 weeks total where I did 4x (or more) per week. The majority of the rest was probably 50/50 between 2 & 3x per week.

I do not believe a natural lifter squatting once a week for 7-8 months could get 100kg on his/her squat. Remembering that I wasn't a newby when I got these gains, I had been squatting pretty consistently 1-2x per week for a while prior to this year. I have no doubt a lifter new to squatting could go 80-180 (for example) in the same amount of time without as much effort as I have given. 180-280 (while not world beating!)... is a different ball game.

Just as a final thought; John Broz has some of his guys squat 7 days per week - sometimes twice per day. I'm not even that "extreme".

.

That's all I'm gonna say.

[thatwaslight]

your my boy IDW but thats fucking stupid to say 'he could have had better gains' 100kg in less than a year??...mother of god. even juiced up phaggets like me don't make those kinda gains.

Hat comes right off to drizz, when someone else puts 100kg on their squat in that time frame i think we should listen!

[I Declare War]

drizzt: Just 'cause you reckon it can't be done doesn't make it fact. I know it can be done. I've seen natural guys bring their deadlift up from 200 - 300kg in one year, training deadlifts once per week. There's no reason that it can't be done with Squats also. If you think otherwise, you're just deceiving yourself.

your my boy IDW but thats fucking stupid to say 'he could have had better gains' 100kg in less than a year??...mother of god. even juiced up phaggets like me don't make those kinda gains.

Hat comes right off to drizz, when someone else puts 100kg on their squat in that time frame i think we should listen!

Of course he could have. He could have gotten there quicker. Ask yourself why you're not making those kinds of gains then... the answer lies in the quality and consistency of your training.

I take my hat off as well, as those are pretty damn good gains.

[drizzt]

Thanks TWL

IDW, bro, I agree completely re: deads. I did roughly the same with my Dead (180-250 in less time than the squat increase, in 2010), and I trained it once per week at the time. IME and in many others, deadlift responds really well to less volume than squat. My training partner (also natural) went from 140 (I think?) to 245 in Deads this year, and we barely even trained it. Certainly never more than once per week.

I've found the opposite works for squats, so I guess again, we disagree

I'm going to leave it there bro because this is going nowhere. When you find a natural guy who can do what I've done by training his squat once per week, then come back and rub it in

Take care.

[tomleegolf]

your my boy IDW but thats fucking stupid to say 'he could have had better gains' 100kg in less than a year??...mother of god. even juiced up phaggets like me don't make those kinda gains.

Hat comes right off to drizz, when someone else puts 100kg on their squat in that time frame i think we should listen!

Hahahaha love that gif!

[I Declare War]

Thanks TWL

IDW, bro, I agree completely re: deads. I did roughly the same with my Dead (180-250 in less time than the squat increase, in 2010), and I trained it once per week at the time. IME and in many others, deadlift responds really well to less volume than squat. My training partner (also natural) went from 140 (I think?) to 245 in Deads this year, and we barely even trained it. Certainly never more than once per week.

I've found the opposite works for squats, so I guess again, we disagree

I'm going to leave it there bro because this is going nowhere. When you find a natural guy who can do what I've done by training his squat once per week, then come back and rub it in

Take care.

Hey, it could well be true that Deadlifts are a different beast altogether and that Squatting requires a higher frequency. We'll leave it there aye, don't have time to find this elusive natural once a week big Squatter.

I always take care. 8)

[Big john]

I trained it once per week at the time. IME and in many others, deadlift responds really well to less volume than squat

BOOM well said drizzt.In the begining of 2010 i managed to put a staggering 170-180ishkgs on my dead in 12 months, 100 to 272.5kgs, with only deadlifting once a week. i firmly believe less is more when training deadlifts as there is alot more strain on your central nervous system/joints compared to squating, imo anyway.

[Mike Zero]

IDW, you do know there is more to squatting than the size of your quads, right?

I'd say most of the top olympic weightlifters worldwide would squat around 10x/week.

Are you going to tell professional coaches that their programming is not optimal and that the clean and jerk record should be 350?

[tinytraps]

You mad IDW?. Drizzt natty puts 100kg on squat training squats multiple times pw. You juiced up to the eye balls no where near the same?

This blog post sums it up pretty good http://www.chaosandpain.blogspot.com/20 ... h-are.html

Not everyone has the recovery ability of an 80 year old man. I highly suggest that you attempt some high volume high frequency training so you can pass judgement on it

[steak]

If you want the advice of a pencil neck you can probably give it yourself - Matt Rossiter

[I Declare War]

Blah blah blah... you fellas are so quick to dish out personal attacks.

Obviously I was looking at it from a Bodybuilder's perspective. There is some merit in drizzt's training and from the looks of it I just don't (or didn't) have a clue about what it takes to build a big squat. I do have a problem with him saying that it's not possible to build a big squat using less frequent training though.

Read this comment from another forum:

Everyone is different. If there was one "BEST" way to train then everyone would be doing it by now. I'm drug-free and only squat once a week, heavy. My raw squat is 675. In my Titan dual quad single ply I hit 807lbs. Listen to your body, maybe you could have a light speed squat day then four days later go heavy. It's all trial and error, good luck bro'.

[I Declare War]

If you want the advice of a pencil neck you can probably give it yourself - Matt Rossiter

I've benched 10 unspotted reps with 140kg at 81kg a few years ago. Recently 14 reps at 88kg. You going to tell me that I'm some fucking pencil neck?

[Big john]

If you want the advice of a pencil neck you can probably give it yourself - Matt Rossiter

I've benched 10 unspotted reps with 140kg at 81kg a few years ago. Recently 14 reps at 88kg. You going to tell me that I'm some fucking pencil neck?

woooo calm the farm brah! :grin: He was just quoting what someone said no need to see it as an attack. ...fuaaaark must be that time of year lololololol

[steak]

If you want the advice of a pencil neck you can probably give it yourself - Matt Rossiter

I've benched 10 unspotted reps with 140kg at 81kg a few years ago. Recently 14 reps at 88kg. You going to tell me that I'm some fucking pencil neck?

vid or you're full of shit

[drizzt]

I do have a problem with him saying that it's not possible to build a big squat using less frequent training though.

I never said squatting less frequently wouldn't build a big squat, bro. Eventually, it likely will.

We were talking about timeframes, and in the timeframe given (7-8 months), I don't believe squatting once or twice a week would get you the same results. I trained that way (1-2x per week) for years in a variety of different styles for slow, steady gains, before trying more volume.

Big squatting isn't simply about building the muscle to squat, it is as much about adapting the neural patterns used to squat. In this sense, squatting more frequently is like practising any other movement to get better at it - free throw shooting in basketball, goalkicking in rugby, pitching in baseball... etc.

[drizzt]

Split this thread out from my journal, lets continue in here - and keep the personal attacks out of it, please

[Mike Zero]

If you want the advice of a pencil neck you can probably give it yourself - Matt Rossiter

I've benched 10 unspotted reps with 140kg at 81kg a few years ago. Recently 14 reps at 88kg. You going to tell me that I'm some fucking pencil neck?

vid or you're full of shit

Doesn't count. He didn't touch his chest or lock it out.

[steak]

Doesn't count. He didn't touch his chest or lock it out.

its dangerous to touch the chest and you take tension off the chest muscles when you lock out

[Danomyte]

My 2 cents

I think we are all looking at the same thing, but each from a different angle.

Whether we squat/deadlift once a week or multiple times, the goal is to squat/deadlift more weight - how we get there through training is secondary IMO.

And as your training age gets higher you will evolve and need different methods/philosophies to get the most out your training.

For instance, when I first started lifting I ran all the PL programme available to me to get my squat up - I've done smolov, russian squat prog (3 x with back squat, 1 x with front squat, 1 x with bench), german volume training (10x10), sheiko, westside. I gained alot of experience and strength from running these templates, but now what works best for me is lifting a heavy single, double or triple every week in the squat. Doing this will maintain what I have got at the moment (305kg RAW squat).

If I was wanting to take my squat from 305kg - 325kg RAW, I would need to change my training approach to do so (side note: not too sure what I would do, maybe sheiko, not sure).

For me, I would be squatting more than once a week, but that doesn't mean that someone squatting only once a week would struggle to make the same gains.

However, if I had an opponent who had the philosophy of only training the squat once a week, I would be very confident of out squatting them come comp day.

[red machine]

one of the best quotes iv heard....."if your gotta to put 50kgs on your lift in 8weeks or your gunna die are you only gonner train it once a week? get out of town......went something like

iv found for me all my big gains have come from high freq for squat n beach, but as others have said with deads iv found less is more.

into 4th week now of squatting 3x aweek, normally 6odd sets over 80% and iv never felt this strong and niggle free b4 its crazy, im waking up fresh and limber in ready to go, loving it, but in saying that i thinks its good in 4-6weeks blocks, doing it all year would prob results in death or maybe a giant total?

but anyway every kats different in ya just gotta find what work for you, so give it all a go i reckon!!