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Today a PT told me to bench to 90deg, S&C brahs GTFIH!

Riccardo

By Riccardo
in Bodybuilding & aesthetics

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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So today a PT and I had a little conversation about how a bench press should be preformed. It went a lil something like this...

Him: so where do you think you should press to?

Me: well I always touch my chest..

Him: why do you do that?

Me: well because the top part of the concentric movement from around 90deg upwards is mostly all triceps, the lower portion of the lift stretches your pec more = stretch reflex = greater activation = greater force production/gains etc.

Him: no the pec stops stretching at 90deg, below 90deg its all anterior deltoid. This increases your risk for shoulder injury and leads to over developed anterior delts..

me: and-lol-wut-pear.jpg :doh:

Me: *feeling my right pec as i pull my arm back into a fullrange bench press movment* ummm, my pec is still stretching beyond 90deg mate.

Him: no its not thats just you delt stretching (my hand was clearly over the middle of my chest nowhere near my delt lulz)

Him: go up to any big guy in the gym and you will see he has over developed anterior delts.

Me: trying not to lol I just accepted what he said.

I then looked at the guy next to me who happened to have a huge chest and was listening to the whole thing, I ask him you touch your chest aye? He replies: yeah the only people I see benching to 90deg are the ones who need a PT to tell them how to train. hahaha

anybody got any research or EMG data to show the pecs are stretched all the way to where the bar touches the chest? My thinking is that the pec is a stronger shoulder flexor than an adductor, hence why there is near zero pec activation during an overhead press. Therefore tucking the elbows allows you to use a full range of motion without comprimising activation of the pecs (this guy told me tucking the elbows would mean the pec wasn't going to be activated...strong knowledge of biomechanics :roll: .)

Sorry a lot of people might not understand the technical terms and stuff but if someone can confirm that im on the money here or is this PT right? What have you found to work best?

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tinytraps Veteran member

tinytraps

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Next time a phaggot busts out the "if you bench lower than 90degress youll bust shoulder/bleed out your arse/ grow a mangina' tell them the law of repetitive motion.

Injury(or insult)= no of reps x force applied / amplitude(ROM) x recovery

Basically the greater rom you take a muscle through the less insult there is i.e you have less chance of getting injured. To all you who say squatting is bad for your knees, you just aint getting deep enough!

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I Declare War Veteran member

I Declare War

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It is true that the anterior delts are involved more at the bottom of ROM (alot more so as the grip becomes narrower). Using a regular width grip it is the pec minor (and the outer section of the chest) that does the bulk of the moving down there. As you push up, muscle involvement will start shifting to the bulk of the chest then quite quickly to the triceps once the bar is about a hand's length away from your chest.

Training full ROM is very beneficial, especially if you workout alone sometimes or compete in powerlifting, the last thing you want to happen is to be weak at the bottom of the movement and end up trapped under your bar.

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olympia Senior member

olympia

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Thats bullshit the pec stops stretching at 90 dg. When im holding a pair a dumbells down past 90 dg ill tell that epic stretch feels like its tearing my pecs apart. Sure the delts do come in to play on the beginning of the positive but you are going to get that with the bench. You work a lot more than just the chest through a full rom. Even on the bar bench i drop my arms past 90 to get that stretch on its epic and half the reason my chest overpowers the rest of my body. He is somewhat right but to tell you not to do a full rom= fuckhead.

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tomsammce Veteran member

tomsammce

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you dont need scientific research to tell you that your pecs are worked at the bottom half of the movement. just ask ronnie/branch warren.

got their cell phone numbers? Because getting in personal contact to ask that question would be easier than finding abit of proven theory on the Internet lol

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trainlikeafreak Senior member

trainlikeafreak

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you dont need scientific research to tell you that your pecs are worked at the bottom half of the movement. just ask ronnie/branch warren.

got their cell phone numbers? Because getting in personal contact to ask that question would be easier than finding abit of proven theory on the Internet lol

na but i do have this......

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HarryB Veteran member

HarryB

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I would have gotten into a lengthy discussion about how the pec attaches to the humerus and so the further back the elbow goes the more the pec gets stretched etc etc etc then remembering he did a whole 2 week course I would have apologised for my ignorance and changed my form. I might have even asked him to write me a programme and show me how to do all my exercises..

Mostly just so that I would know what not to do!

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nate225 Veteran member

nate225

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I would have gotten into a lengthy discussion about how the pec attaches to the humerus and so the further back the elbow goes the more the pec gets stretched etc etc etc then remembering he did a whole 2 week course I would have apologised for my ignorance and changed my form. I might have even asked him to write me a programme and show me how to do all my exercises..

Mostly just so that I would know what not to do!

Bullshit - you know what you'd really do......Smash em bro! LOL

Smash-em-Bro.png&w=555&h=&zc=1&f=

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HarryB Veteran member

HarryB

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I would have gotten into a lengthy discussion about how the pec attaches to the humerus and so the further back the elbow goes the more the pec gets stretched etc etc etc then remembering he did a whole 2 week course I would have apologised for my ignorance and changed my form. I might have even asked him to write me a programme and show me how to do all my exercises..

Mostly just so that I would know what not to do!

Bullshit - you know what you'd really do......Smash em bro! LOL

Smash-em-Bro.png&w=555&h=&zc=1&f=

possibly ha ha ha ha or alternately when he started talking to me I would have told him I didn't want to do things his way because they clearly weren't working for him lol

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HarryB Veteran member

HarryB

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possibly ha ha ha ha or alternately when he started talking to me I would have told him I didn't want to do things his way because they clearly weren't working for him lol

"Look at me... Now look at you. Cool. Glad we got that sorted."

Then he would have started talking about how I full of drugs and yep I would have smashed him he he he he

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I Declare War Veteran member

I Declare War

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possibly ha ha ha ha or alternately when he started talking to me I would have told him I didn't want to do things his way because they clearly weren't working for him lol

"Look at me... Now look at you. Cool. Glad we got that sorted."

Then he would have started talking about how I full of drugs and yep I would have smashed him he he he he

Harry, do you have anger problems and insecurities? :P

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HarryB Veteran member

HarryB

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"Look at me... Now look at you. Cool. Glad we got that sorted."

Then he would have started talking about how I full of drugs and yep I would have smashed him he he he he

Harry, do you have anger problems and insecurities? :P

Well no but I have idiocy issues lol

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Darkmanx Senior member

Darkmanx

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The sad thing is about a situation like this is, most big name gyms in this country like cityfitness and less mills and so on are absolutely saturated with inexperienced PT's and cause they do a 6 month course they know everything.

I call PT's like that one dimentional and are not willing to learn from anyone except from the courses their emplyment offers. They also dont keep in touch with new developments in the fitness industry and its a very fast and everchanging one by that too.

I must admit due to the length of my levers i do mostly focus on the bottom half range. Its from my own experience that i almost never go above the 90 as i do not get any results by going to almost lockout. Anyway just my 2cents

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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yeah the two points that realy irked me was that:

1. He thought the pec doesn't stretch beyond 90deg...of course it f*cking does, it doesn't take a degree in anatomy to know that. Like I said stretch is good, connective tissue strengthening, stretch reflex = greater force producation, all that shit.

2. can't believe he said you will have over developed anterior delts from benching to the chest, I've benched to my chest my entire life and I only wish I had over developed anterior delts :pfft: and ummm so what if your delts get bigger? train the medial and posterior ones more to compensate = cannon ball shoulders = profit?

I also questioned him saying alright well even if you were right, if you were training an athlete like a rugby player or shot putter wouldn't you wan't to increase their overall pressing strength through a full range of motion not just increase their chest development? What happens when their shoulder becomes extended beyond 90deg during a game or something, they are gona be at greater risk of injury because they haven't trained that ROM.

Your right Darkman, these guys do their little course and think they know it all, the industry is ever changing, science and physiology is ever changing these guys don't bother to keep up to date, imagine if your doctor still treated you using 1950's medicine, lol.

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BeastBuilder Senior member

BeastBuilder

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God dam silly PTs !!

Being a newly qualified PT myself and getting into the fitness industry, and liking thinking i kind of know what I'm talking about but am constantly learning and training, I am amazed at some of the stuff my new colleagues believe and talk to me about ! And half of the stuff we learn on our course, it was an 8 month long one, so one of the more in depth ones, was questionable too as I have had great results doing the exact opposite of some of it !! :pfft:

PTs like these are the majority and give the few of us who actually train hard and have in the trenches knowledge a bad name.. Also quite often I get looked at funny as they are so used to the lanky PTs who claim to know how to build muscle, then I come along having actually had results in both getting bigger and stronger and in getting lean for the summer and filling their Weight Loss programmes with resistance training and teaching them full ROM limiting the weight they can use on Strength Building programmes.

And when people ask where I began and I inform them I began at 60kg and a weak shrimp 3 years ago at age 16, they automatically think about juice and don't believe a word I say thinking I took an easy way out (not saying gear is an easy way out, I know it is very hard work !! :nod: This is just their perception on things) and haven't put in the hard work as they cannot imagine doing it themselves, or when I tell them that I have cut down 12kg in 8 weeks last summer they automatically assume I was eating nothing, when I was still comfortably full all the time.

And the funny thing is that the people who think all this aren't just clients and gym goers I talk to, it's the other PTs who I work with who are meant to be more experienced than me and know what they are talking about !!

Sorry for the rant but I see this kind of thing all through the gym and it makes me pissed !! :lol:

/rant

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