Nat vs Enhanced Strength Increase

[legacy]

Interested in opinions on strength increase from those on here that trained natural for at least several years then went to the dark side. A percentage figure and the compounds + quantity used would be helpful. Mostly interested in first cycle experiences.

[I Declare War]

Interested in opinions on strength increase from those on here that trained natural for at least several years then went to the dark side. A percentage figure and the compounds + quantity used would be helpful. Mostly interested in first cycle experiences.

For example, I struggled getting to and maintaining the ability to do 10 reps with 100kg on Bench Press for several years before cycling... but on my first cycle I got to about 15 without too much hard work, then next cycle I tweaked a few things with my training and diet and got to over 30 reps. It just opens up the possibilities if you are prepared to put in the hard yards, not just with training.. eating and recovery also.

If I had everything in order on my first cycle I'd have blown up like crazy. I responded like mad to the compounds that cycle. did 750mg/week sust250 and 30mg/day dbol first and last 3 weeks of the 12 week cycle... way overkill for a first cycle.

First cycle keep it to 300-500mg/week Test only... make sure you've got everything in check then next cycle bump it up if you feel the need. Don't over complicate things.

[thatwaslight]

i wasn't strong naturally and i'm not strong on gear but i have put 60+kgs on my bench since starting aas

[olympia]

After first cycle 20kg on bench for same reps, 50kg on deads. Squats 25kg. Barbell arm curls up 10kg for ten rep. Also holding the mrs against the wall while pumping the snot out of her i gained an extra minute. Up to 2

[Grover]

^ :pfft: you da man!

[trademe900]

After first cycle 20kg on bench for same reps, 50kg on deads. Squats 25kg. Barbell arm curls up 10kg for ten rep.

That's a huge strength increase- what were you running?

[olympia]

Test enth, started at 250mg then upped to 500mg a week, Deca at 200mg a week Frontloaded with just 10mg of dbol for 5 weeks. Ran the cycle over 11 or 12 weeks

[mike27]

are the strength gains and size gains kept when you come off the gear?

[legacy]

are the strength gains and size gains kept when you come off the gear?

A mate ran a few cycles years ago. He reckons he kept most of his gains and strength. Bench press is 180kg and hes still 110kg so I can hardly doubt him.......... He started as a 75kg runt.

[crazyfacials]

are the strength gains and size gains kept when you come off the gear?

yeah I wanted to ask this question too...roughly on average how much (% wise) do your lifts go down by after you finish your cycle?

[I Declare War]

are the strength gains and size gains kept when you come off the gear?

yeah I wanted to ask this question too...roughly on average how much (% wise) do your lifts go down by after you finish your cycle?

Everyone has a maximum amount of muscle that their body can hold. When not administering steroids your natural hormone levels over a period of time can only support a certain level of muscle... you can eat more food to compensate after a cycle and you can keep strength up for a very long time but over time you'll become fatter and fatter.

What you can do is juice up to your maximum amount of muscle (natural limit), and try and maintain that. Provided you don't get sick often and keep training hard and eating sufficient food you can stay at that natural limit.

If you juice up beyond your natural limit, you'll slowly loose it after your cycle and return to your natural limit or whatever level below that which your training and diet can support.

[Chemo]

IDW, how close do you think most people get to their genetic ceiling though?

and a cycle of test can give you an advantage when going back to natural for some time correct?

[olympia]

are the strength gains and size gains kept when you come off the gear?

Yes strength gains kept and still gaining but i have changed my training to DC style so am always pushing myself. Weight gain was 10kg of which i kept 8. I put on like 6 in 4 weeks (mostly water) but evened out and kept it. Have used prop in a different cheaper brand after that and got nothing in the way of gains or real sex drive like on the enth so whether its the deca and dbol i react to or if the prop was bad i dunno.

[I Declare War]

IDW, how close do you think most people get to their genetic ceiling though?

and a cycle of test can give you an advantage when going back to natural for some time correct?

most people? way off their natural limit man. even me, I've been on steroids for years now, but my training over all the body parts is not good enough over time for me to say that I couldn't have reached where I am naturally (some parts are probably over my natural limit though, such as chest lol). At my natural limit I'm sure I would be a lot heavier than I am now. Provided I could avoid injury - takes years of experience of training to get that perfected.

I've hardly ever seen anyone who is natural train near hard enough and consistently enough over time to be able to say they're close to their natural limit. I've only known one guy personally who I can say was close to his natural limit... here's a pic of him: this fella would leave anyone in the dust in terms of work-ethic on this forum. Just completely insane... and he never used any hormones to get to his peak, just 15 years of solid training. He was about 30 in that pic.

Yep a cycle of test sure can give you an advantage for a long time after a cycle, the extra muscle you put on can help push your muscles towards a greater level of muscle maturity... I've been off for up to 6 months at times and I've been able to retain the ability to work with weights that I couldn't before cycling. Provided your hormonal systems starts firing properly after your cycle you'll keep some gains (if you started below your natural limit) for a very long time... it's a bit of russian roulette with the hormonal system tho... if you're unlucky it may never start up again and you'll be left with the test levels of a 75 year old pensioner for the rest of your life.

[DANIEL8]

if you're unlucky it may never start up again and you'll be left with the test levels of a 75 year old pensioner for the rest of your life

would you be able to feel it if this were the case, or would you just feel slightly less horny and need to get a blood test to tell you? because i have just finished my run of nolvadex and the desire for sex has somewhat been flushed down the toilet between week 2 after cycle and now (over 4 weeks)

I have the test level of a 75 year old. GAY.

[I Declare War]

if you're unlucky it may never start up again and you'll be left with the test levels of a 75 year old pensioner for the rest of your life

would you be able to feel it if this were the case, or would you just feel slightly less horny and need to get a blood test to tell you? because i have just finished my run of nolvadex and the desire for sex has somewhat been flushed down the toilet between week 2 after cycle and now (over 4 weeks)

I have the test level of a 75 year old. GAY.

That's usual mate, give it 8-12 weeks before you're back up and running... you can sort of tell that you're back up okay when you're getting morning wood and the occasional one throughout the day... also when you're not having to try hard to rub one off. Main thing is to keep gym sessions short but still intense and just try your best to recover from them.

It's more GAY when you're on a big cycle and you've got the Estrogen levels of a 14 year old girl and the prolactin levels of a highly pregnant woman. Hahaha But, yeah, see what you mean...

If you're still like that after 12 weeks off.. then by all means get your bloods checked. You could even check them now if you've got some spare dollars lying around. If you value your natural test production, don't be jumping back on any cycles until you're sure you're back to normal... otherwise you're just smacking your hormonal system on the head with a double whammy.