RELIGION

[severe]

I actually like religious people. I go shopping on Sunday mornings before 10 and the aisles are clear, with only sinners in sight. And they are a nice, polite bunch of sinful folk.

Thank god for church, and keeping them off the streets on Sunday mornings.

Because once you go out past 10, the roads are buiser and shopping is harder.

Maybe the sinners are hungover, and they also help keep my aisle clear. Is my theory is moot?

[rovr4on]

free will is a toughie, I kind of like to think, if you were able to put every experience/choice that an individual has had, and put it into a super computer, it would be able to determine your next action or choice based on your experiences which determine who you are as an individual thanks to the neuro networks created in our brains. I know there aint no computer powerful enough yet.. but a simple way to potentially put this topic to bed...

[Rag the Dog]

I believe in me. I really find it hard to believe that people still go to churches and sing and give money for their gods. I cannot understand why on earth anyone with 'their own mind' would do that. I also get sick of sports people and reality TV (survivor) praying for a win and thanking god for this that and the other. Then if they lose they put it down to gods will. I dont care who is religious but I wish they would stop going on about it. I wish some sports people would start praising the easter bunny or satan before a match and point towards the ground.

[Shutupandsquat]

Let's just settle this:

There are dickheads. Dickheads bag other religions because to them, it isn't true.

But there are so fucking many religions SOMEONE has to be right (including people who don't believe). Or they haven't even discovered it yet.

I'm not bagging anyones' religion. People believe God, I believe will power. To me it isn't different because I am my own God. Let people believe what they want. It makes them feel secure and loved. So who gives a shit, that's ultimately what we want as people.

[bang_bang]

i dont care what others beleive as long as they dont try force it on people, going door knocking etc..

[thatwaslight]

I really try not to, but I just always think less of someone if they are religious and was wondering religious people must feel the same?

[Jigga]

heres a theory i thought up. (yeah i know others have come up with it as well)

everything that has ever happened was predetermined as is everything which will happen in the future. everything, including life itself obeys the laws of physics, and everything was set in motion at the time of the big bang(?) (or maybe before, if anything existed then?). true 'free-will' does not exist. all 'decisions' you make are a result of factors which ultimately lie outside of your control. all uncertainty and 'ramdom events' are simply a result of our failure to model this complex situation...knowlege of this changes nothing.

I don't doubt you thought of something along these lines h1 but to say you developed that entire theory independently is ridiculous. What proof did you have that random events weren't in fact random and were instead part of a deterministic system, too complex for us to predict? You can't theorise something based on a feeling.

I'm assuming you have done some reading on Chaos, have a look at Quantum.

It's called determinism and it's a pretty common theory. I realised it for myself when I was 13-14 and first started leaning about physics (no brag or anything). Also, the "most" pre-determined think you can do is make a choice because you "feel" like doing something. When you eat something because you crave it you are reacting purely to chemical memory and not making any conscious choice. It's not about whether you choose something or not, it's about whether you choose your choice.

Cool vid Jigga but it hardly ends the free will debate as the title suggests, as I'm sure you know. Because electrons jump around at random it doesn't give us anymore free will IMO, as it's not like we control how "our" electrons jump around. If anything it's worse than hard determinism in terms ov free will, as it's still out ov our hands but just massively chaotic.

I posted that video because it was short and sweet and summarised the history of this discussion nicely. From what you have said so far I gather you believe the universe is deterministic but we still possess some kind of free will.

Based on what I know of Quantum theory, the universe is indeterministic. I can expand on this if you want or you could read some articles on it. When it comes to free will I think it depends on how you define it. I tend to agree with Hawking's viewpoint that we are simply biological machines operating in some environment and there is no external agent, free will, meddling with that system. I'm happy with the label Hard Indeterminist even if you consider it "worse" than Hard Determinism.

A couple of quotes I came across that I thought were relevant to the thread:

"The opinions that are held with passion are always those for which no good ground exists; indeed the passion is the measure of the holders lack of rational conviction. Opinions in politics and religion are almost always held passionately." - Bertrand Russell

"The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge." - Elbert Hubbard

[Mike Zero]

I posted that video because it was short and sweet and summarised the history of this discussion nicely. From what you have said so far I gather you believe the universe is deterministic but we still possess some kind of free will.

Based on what I know of Quantum theory, the universe is indeterministic. I can expand on this if you want or you could read some articles on it. When it comes to free will I think it depends on how you define it. I tend to agree with Hawking's viewpoint that we are simply biological machines operating in some environment and there is no external agent, free will, meddling with that system. I'm happy with the label Hard Indeterminist even if you consider it "worse" than Hard Determinism.

Nope, I believe completely the opposite based on what we know right now. I don't know anything about quantam physics but I'm not ruling out the fact that there is some system underneath quantam particles that can modelling the "randomness", but right now I would call myself a hard indeterminist as well.

By hard indeterminism being "worse" than hard determinism - I meant the word "worse" from a purely humanitarian stand point (which doesn't really apply in this discussion). By this I mean if we could implement one system out of the two, surely you would choose determinism. Both obviously mean zero free will, but one everything is nice and organised and the other everything is chaotic. Again, that statement meant nothing, was just a fun point.

And yes I am a materialist so the fact that we are biological machines is a natural progression from this. I believe what we define as "conciousness" is an illusion, we are just a collection of memories and experiences. If you transferred these into another person they would be just as much "you" as you are yourself in another body. Not that you would suddenly see out of two pairs of eyes, but it's just that you don't see out of any pairs of eyes to start with.

So yes, we are on the same page.

[Jigga]

[AgentOrange]

http://addednosugar.blogspot.com/2011/11/death.html

a friend of mines take on death, religion and afterlife.

[evil action]

The temple of the most high begins with the human body, which houses our life, essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through Religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans which were supposed to help people grow spiritually.

Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe and each other. As the essence of our existence it embodies our culture, true identity, nationhood and destiny. A people without a nation they can really call their own is a people without a soul. Africa is our nation and is in spiritual and physical bondage because her leaders are turning to outside forces for solutions to African problems when everything Africa needs is within her. When African righteous people come together, the world will come together. This is our divine destiny. WORDS OF HAILE SELASSIE

[evil action]

jah rastafari

[thatwaslight]

The temple of the most high begins with the human body, which houses our life, essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through Religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans which were supposed to help people grow spiritually.

Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe and each other. As the essence of our existence it embodies our culture, true identity, nationhood and destiny. A people without a nation they can really call their own is a people without a soul. Africa is our nation and is in spiritual and physical bondage because her leaders are turning to outside forces for solutions to African problems when everything Africa needs is within her. When African righteous people come together, the world will come together. This is our divine destiny. WORDS OF HAILE SELASSIE

[Pseudonym]

This topic has been a really good discussion. Let's keep it that way, please.

[thatwaslight]

why do you have to delete post like that? its just for fun and provides a few laughs???? :roll:

[anyonehelp?]

Was there to inforce power and scare people into things they wished to be done their way.

[musclenz]

Christmas Message- Believe It or Not

Jesus Christ the Messiah did not die on the cross at his crucifixion. Instead he was taken down, although thought dead by the Roman Soldiers & His People, & was revived by His Followers. It was too dangerous for Him to remain in Jerusalem so He travelled to Damascus with Mary Magdalene & His Mother Mary & the Disciple Thomas (Juda) Brother of Jesus where the famous meeting with Paul ensued. He then moved into Asia Minor to be received by the King of Nisibis then North into Paphlagonia. His group then travelled over the Old Silk Route through Persia & arrived 16 years later in Kashmir (Northern India) where He was known as Yuz Asaf (Leader of the Healed). He lived & preached the Truth & eventually died there when He was over 80 years old & was buried in Srinagar's old town Anzimar.

[Mike Zero]

Anyone seen the movie The Man From Earth?

I highly recommend it, bloody good story and relates to this thread.

[Jigga]

Anyone seen the movie The Man From Earth?

I highly recommend it, bloody good story and relates to this thread.

Hah! Saw it a while ago and it also made a real impression on me. Loved the concept, perhaps the execution (actor-wise) could have been better. Low budget I guess. Quite cool though in a way that such a consuming movie can be made in a common living room with a bunch of no-name actors/actresses.

I'm surprised more movies haven't been made exploring the idea of living forever. There are glimpses of it in those shitpiece vamp movies but they never look at it in depth. I fantasize about it daily lol.

[Mike Zero]

Anyone seen the movie The Man From Earth?

I highly recommend it, bloody good story and relates to this thread.

Hah! Saw it a while ago and it also made a real impression on me. Loved the concept, perhaps the execution (actor-wise) could have been better. Low budget I guess. Quite cool though in a way that such a consuming movie can be made in a common living room with a bunch of no-name actors/actresses.

Thought you would be into that one.

Similiar to 12 Angry Men (in production not story).

Edit: Also, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0142235/