RELIGION

[Specter]

Okay guys! If you have views on religion, its history and its place within todays world, then post it here.

(Keep it clean!)

[Jigga]

I am not religious but I see the appeal of devoting oneself to something.

Atheists who find it necessary to rant over how stupid religious people are, clearly retain some doubt. Live and let live.

As a religion I would describe Christianity as ridiculous and transparent. Buddhism on the other hand is a beautiful philosophy. If it were practical I could see myself devoting my life to it.

The brain-washing and manipulation is a whole different debate. I think religion on its own though is a wonderful thing.

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - this is a somewhat new kind of religion."

Albert Einstein

[holdenman]

Religion = Brainwashing.

Those who fly planes into buildings are no more brainwashed than those who go to church every Sunday here in NZ.

It would suprise me if anyone here into bodybuilding (a sport where you ask for proof of every claim, training, food, drugs etc.) believed in God, where all you have is "faith" because theres certainly no evidence.

Why do religious people thank God for all things good but dont blame him for bad?

Could go on all day about this shit..

"When you understand why you dismiss all other Gods you will understand why I dismiss yours"

[nate225]

).Each to their own I say. Seems like most of you are focused on the extremist versions of religion (seems Christianity copping the most flack, you lads scared of jihad if you mock Islam? :grin: ).

The more moderate religious folk I've come across tend to be some of the most genuine & nicest people I've met. Within the lifting circles guys like Tonka, Wookie and a bunch of others are proud Christians and seem to fit it into very well rounded lifestyles while still acheiving highly in their sports, maybe something there for the less balanced here to learn from?

For many I guess religion gives a framework to live by, for others it gives hope that may not exist for them in the now (is this any different to Specter & his boys who live through gaming! :grin: ). As long as it isn't negatively impacting on others I say thats gotta be a good thing.

Keen to hear from Wookie, who for the record has a theology degree, and may be able to explain some of the theories about religion & personal beliefs?

[Darkmanx]

).Each to their own I say. Seems like most of you are focused on the extremist versions of religion (seems Christianity copping the most flack, you lads scared of jihad if you mock Islam? :grin: ).

The more moderate religious folk I've come across tend to be some of the most genuine & nicest people I've met. Within the lifting circles guys like Tonka, Wookie and a bunch of others are proud Christians and seem to fit it into very well rounded lifestyles while still acheiving highly in their sports, maybe something there for the less balanced here to learn from?

For many I guess religion gives a framework to live by, for others it gives hope that may not exist for them in the now (is this any different to Specter & his boys who live through gaming! :grin: ). As long as it isn't negatively impacting on others I say thats gotta be a good thing.

Keen to hear from Wookie, who for the record has a theology degree, and may be able to explain some of the theories about religion & personal beliefs?

Well said Nate. I wanted to say something the moment this thread was up but i will keep my comments to myself.

[Jigga]

The more moderate religious folk I've come across tend to be some of the most genuine & nicest people I've met. Within the lifting circles guys like Tonka, Wookie and a bunch of others are proud Christians and seem to fit it into very well rounded lifestyles while still acheiving highly in their sports, maybe something there for the less balanced here to learn from?

For many I guess religion gives a framework to live by, for others it gives hope that may not exist for them in the now (is this any different to Specter & his boys who live through gaming! :grin: ). As long as it isn't negatively impacting on others I say thats gotta be a good thing.

I have seen the positive impact Christianity has had on friends. The points I highlighted in your post I think are things most people have observed.

However, unless you have been brainwashed from birth and refuse to listen to reason you have to play make-believe to become a Christian. Pretending you believe in God because you are scared of nothingness after death or because you want to live a wholesome life is sad. If you are very good at lying to yourself I guess it works fine.

Christianity is just one of the many implausible religions. I singled it out because I don't know enough about the others. I'm jealous of those who have been brought up this way but for an intelligent person to become a born-again Christian I imagine is hard work.

[Jigga]

Anyway I'm in danger of ranting. Each to their own.

[liquid_101]

strict aethiest - nobody guides my life but me.. .

if you haven't seen zeitgeist before - check it out. free download from their website. how many thousands of years of religion dispelled in twenty minutes - never get bored of this.. .

[nate225]

^^ Ever taking a supplement & its worked for you and later you found out the science behind it proved it doesn't work? Placebo effect yeah?

If at the worse case scenario a religion turns out to be unfounded, but throughout a person's life they subscribed to its values & it helped them acheive things they otherwise may not have done, is it any different to a placebo effect?

Just a thought!

I know where you're coming from Jigga, being a scientist I struggle with some aspects of christianity. Wookie has a few answers re: this. Makes for an interesting conversation if nothing else.

Had a really cool conversation over a few wines with a friend who also had a theology post grad qual (and later went on to be minister of a large dunedin church, cant remember what denomination). Fascinating aligning scientific facts, history & theories of religion with him. Did the whole analysis of the movie The Da Vinci Code too - some intetresting historical stuff there.

Re: atheism vid - keen to watch when not blocked at work - again another POV in the discussion, no doubt many valid facts. Will comment when I can!

[liquid_101]

Re: atheism vid - keen to watch when not blocked at work - again another POV in the discussion, no doubt many valid facts. Will comment when I can!

youtube blocked at my work too - try this one >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1543831119879192379

its a video explaining a very persuasive theory that religion (and its characters) is just the personification of astrology and zodiac events / phases.. .

[maassive]

I also have a degree in theology + read and speak both ancient hebrew and koine greek, so own and have read the original texts of the bible; yet I also share anti-christianity, anti-religious sentiments...

It was actually my degree in theology which brought these sentiments to the forefront. But what nate has said is also true in that there are many people of all religions who are not extremists and are people who are balanced, positive, hopeful, loving and good. Extremism in anything is almost always negative because it is so unbalanced.

[Android]

Good post Nate!

I think the days of preaching Old Testament are over and "belief" and "faith" are no longer about believing in a single God. I think parts of Budhism make more practical sense for living in the now. But then so does aspects of Sun Tzu as well LOL

I'd add...

If you've ever believed in yourself to achieve a goal (future-dated) then you have the faith (in yourself). You're the God in that sense and not some deity.

But to have faith en-masse you need to share something in common, something that you can all agree upon. This is where religious groups have come from, common agreement.

For example everyone agreeing that generosity and selflessness are values they want to learn, uphold, and practice. (You can believe in these without "the group" just like you can ride your Harley without being in a gang...but that's individual choice, and sharing the experience with like-minded people can be half the enjoyment).

Slightly off-topic: Ever believed in a political party and hoped they actually delivered on something they promised in the future when you vote for them? Isn't that blind faith in a single entity :doh: jks

[Chemo]

OOOO Mean topic

Would have to say I'm spiritual but not religious. Maybe I've mindfucked myself into believing some absurdities but at the end of the day it gives me hope and drive to move forward in a positive way. (like believing in tribulus ;3)

I came from a christian family, went there, didnt like it, looked at science (quantumfiziks FML) buddhism, atheism and even pagan religious lol.

Gotta say I like the idea of mercy, and of what Jesus teaches is about as good as any prophet or ancient proverb, and has stuck with me. RESPEK

Spirituality caged in a religion or establishment on the other hand just makes it like a business, about money and motives sad, a lot of "power of persuasion" goes on in churches and sooo much peer pressure to get involved.

[Specter]

).Each to their own I say. Seems like most of you are focused on the extremist versions of religion (seems Christianity copping the most flack, you lads scared of jihad if you mock Islam? :grin: ).

The more moderate religious folk I've come across tend to be some of the most genuine & nicest people I've met. Within the lifting circles guys like Tonka, Wookie and a bunch of others are proud Christians and seem to fit it into very well rounded lifestyles while still acheiving highly in their sports, maybe something there for the less balanced here to learn from?

For many I guess religion gives a framework to live by, for others it gives hope that may not exist for them in the now (is this any different to Specter & his boys who live through gaming! :grin: ). As long as it isn't negatively impacting on others I say thats gotta be a good thing.

Keen to hear from Wookie, who for the record has a theology degree, and may be able to explain some of the theories about religion & personal beliefs?

When I am online Gaming I hope and Pray to some unknown deity :pray: that I dont get my ass kicked by a chick or some little 6 year old! :oops:

I was attending church(Mormon) most of my life up to the age of 14 when I had the balls to tell my grandmother I didnt want to go anymore. (I will never ever forget the look she gave me that day) and from there I turned my back on the church. I respect religion and peoples religious beliefs, and a lot of my family and friends are religious, and at the end of the day I just want the same respect from them for what I am and what I believe in, even though I am not religous.

[thatwaslight]

The point is science proves that what the bible says is untrue. If you believe the bible you are believing a lie, regardless of wether it's a good or bad thing it doesn't change the fact it's a lie. Much like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

I'd just rather live in the real world

[nate225]

The point is science proves that what the bible says is untrue. If you believe the bible you are believing a lie, regardless of wether it's a good or bad thing it doesn't change the fact it's a lie. Much like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

I'd just rather live in the real world

Again each to their own - I like the tooth fairy bro do wreck it for me! :grin:

[Specter]

The point is science proves that what the bible says is untrue. If you believe the bible you are believing a lie, regardless of wether it's a good or bad thing it doesn't change the fact it's a lie. Much like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

I'd just rather live in the real world

Again each to their own - I like the tooth fairy bro do wreck it for me! :grin:

Dont bring Santa into this bro..thats just Mean! :grin:

[Mike Zero]

strict aethiest - nobody guides my life but me.. .

If you were a strict athiest you would know that what guides your life is deterministic and probabalistic outcomes based on low-level quantum and mechanical principles.

Also, if you were a strict atheist you would know how to spell the word.

[Chemo]

The point is science proves that what the bible says is untrue. If you believe the bible you are believing a lie, regardless of wether it's a good or bad thing it doesn't change the fact it's a lie. Much like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

I'd just rather live in the real world

Please explain. Examples?

[liquid_101]

If you were a strict athiest you would know that what guides your life is deterministic and probabalistic outcomes based on low-level quantum and mechanical principles.

Also, if you were a strict atheist you would know how to spell the word.

google is amazing isn't it? lets us all sound just that much smarter. good post man - i'll take your comments on board and change my opinion on this matter henceforth.. .

:pfft:

[Mike Zero]

If you were a strict athiest you would know that what guides your life is deterministic and probabalistic outcomes based on low-level quantum and mechanical principles.

Also, if you were a strict atheist you would know how to spell the word.

google is amazing isn't it? lets us all sound just that much smarter. good post man - i'll take your comments on board and change my opinion on this matter henceforth.. .

:pfft:

I'll take you comment as a complement, as no reference to Google or any search engine was done immediately prior to that post.

I never suggested you change your opinion. However, I suggest you change your whole attitude. Rather than watching a single documentary, taking it all as fact and suddenly becoming an expert on the topic. You're no different to someone who reads the bible and blindly takes it as fact. If you care enough (which obviously you do, being a "strict aethiest") you would check the sources ov that doco & do some further reading on it. You might discover it's not completely true :wink:

[thatwaslight]

The point is science proves that what the bible says is untrue. If you believe the bible you are believing a lie, regardless of wether it's a good or bad thing it doesn't change the fact it's a lie. Much like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

I'd just rather live in the real world

Please explain. Examples?

Examples of what? How science disproves what the bible says? Try creationism?

Actually brb it was Satan that put dinosaur bones in the ground to try and trick us

[Chemo]

The point is science proves that what the bible says is untrue. If you believe the bible you are believing a lie, regardless of wether it's a good or bad thing it doesn't change the fact it's a lie. Much like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

I'd just rather live in the real world

Please explain. Examples?

Examples of what? How science disproves what the bible says? Try creationism?

Actually brb it was Satan that put dinosaur bones in the ground to try and trick us

Yeah bro, like some science that disproves (in context) what the bible says.

And yeah bro dinosaurs are satan spawn, pretty sure i read this somewhere

[liquid_101]

I'll take you comment as a complement, as no reference to Google or any search engine was done immediately prior to that post

compliment.. . :wink:

[AlBundy]

If you were a strict athiest you would know that what guides your life is deterministic and probabalistic outcomes based on low-level quantum and mechanical principles.

Also, if you were a strict atheist you would know how to spell the word.

google is amazing isn't it? lets us all sound just that much smarter. good post man - i'll take your comments on board and change my opinion on this matter henceforth.. .

:pfft:

I'll take you comment as a complement, as no reference to Google or any search engine was done immediately prior to that post.

I never suggested you change your opinion. However, I suggest you change your whole attitude. Rather than watching a single documentary, taking it all as fact and suddenly becoming an expert on the topic. You're no different to someone who reads the bible and blindly takes it as fact. If you care enough (which obviously you do, being a "strict aethiest") you would check the sources ov that doco & do some further reading on it. You might discover it's not completely true :wink:

Shit I don't understand the maths behind all the physics I mean how many people really do? I always argued against the logic of religions like christianity but that was before I figured out that arguing logic against faith doesn't work. I also got a bit older and started thinking like Nate which is if people are good people and are happy believing something I should let them be I don't want to be a prick and at the end of the day it's impossible to prove yourself absolutely right. Arguing is a waste of time lol.

Although that said I will still voice my opinion of things like the idea of karma lol.