Rear Delt's?

[jerume]

I have had a shoulder problem for years and for the last year it has been great, I am slowly progressing with my strength in shoulder exercises but I have to be careful not to go to heavy too quick, and also On my exercise choices, as I cannot do upright rows, dips(for triceps obviously)and before this year I wasnt able to do Incline bench, But i can now and I have been progressing great this year.

Unfortunately last week I was doing lying rear delt raises http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/d ... delt-raise and felt a tinge in my shoulder. My question is with hitting my back so hard does doing your back hit your real delts enough to not need to single out your rear delts with a exercise?

I know I SHOULD single out rear delts but as I have to be careful can I do without it?

As I would like to only do what is required for shoulders and prevent injuries in the future.

My current shoulder workout is as follows:

Db Shoulder press 4 sets 12,10,8,6-4 reps

Db front raise (same as above)

Db Side raise (same as above)

and until recently lying rear delt raises( same as above)

Back workout:

Wide grip pulldown 4 sets 12,10,8,6-4 reps

v-bar pulldown (Same as above)

v-bar row ( Same as above

single cable row ( Same as above)

Db shrugs ( Same as above)

Bb Shrugs ( Same as above)

Any feedback and tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[I Declare War]

I have had a shoulder problem for years and for the last year it has been great, I am slowly progressing with my strength in shoulder exercises but I have to be careful not to go to heavy too quick, and also On my exercise choices, as I cannot do upright rows, dips(for triceps obviously)and before this year I wasnt able to do Incline bench, But i can now and I have been progressing great this year.

Unfortunately last week I was doing lying rear delt raises http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/d ... delt-raise and felt a tinge in my shoulder. My question is with hitting my back so hard does doing your back hit your real delts enough to not need to single out your rear delts with a exercise?

I know I SHOULD single out rear delts but as I have to be careful can I do without it?

As I would like to only do what is required for shoulders and prevent injuries in the future.

My current shoulder workout is as follows:

Db Shoulder press 4 sets 12,10,8,6-4 reps

Db front raise (same as above)

Db Side raise (same as above)

and until recently lying rear delt raises( same as above)

Back workout:

Wide grip pulldown 4 sets 12,10,8,6-4 reps

v-bar pulldown (Same as above)

v-bar row ( Same as above

single cable row ( Same as above)

Db shrugs ( Same as above)

Bb Shrugs ( Same as above)

Any feedback and tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

You must have similar shoulder problems to me. Heavy rear delt work hurts like hell for me. It's getting better for me now that I'm rehabbing my injury properly.

You should hit your rear delts separately - from my experience they don't get directly fatigued enough during a back work-out. Try targeting them with an appropriate isolation exercise. Bent-over dumbbell raises and light Reverse Pec Dec, are exercises that work well.

For front, lateral and rear deltoid raises you can stick to the 15-25 rep range. They're small muscles, they don't need a lot of weight. Make sure your form is spot-on and you can get great results with 5-15kg for raises. Concentrate on cutting out all momentum and holding the contraction for a second or two.

For presses you'd want to test the waters and go as heavy as your body will allow, provided good form on the exercises.

[jerume]

Thanks for your reply! It might not seem like alot of weight but I was using 12.5 Kg dumbbells starting with 12-14 reps and slowly increasing the reps and weight and felt a little tinge in my rear delt, I have been progressing well with my front and side raises(weight wise) but i have been doing reps of around 13,10,8,6, and I have been getting stronger but i think my form is starting to get a bit slack, so with your advice I do think i could lighten the weight, and maybe do seated front & side raises, slow and reps of between 15-25,4 sets each,that way im less likely to injure myself in future,and i will continue to do lower reps and heavy weight with shoulder press as a compound exercise.

Do u strengthen your rotator cuff with any exercises?

I used to on my day's off training at home but I found it made my shoulders more sensitive and sore during training, so i just have a good warmup and stretch before i train.

[I Declare War]

Thanks for your reply! It might not seem like alot of weight but I was using 12.5 Kg dumbbells starting with 12-14 reps and slowly increasing the reps and weight and felt a little tinge in my rear delt, I have been progressing well with my front and side raises(weight wise) but i have been doing reps of around 13,10,8,6, and I have been getting stronger but i think my form is starting to get a bit slack, so with your advice I do think i could lighten the weight, and maybe do seated front & side raises, slow and reps of between 15-25,4 sets each,that way im less likely to injure myself in future,and i will continue to do lower reps and heavy weight with shoulder press as a compound exercise.

Do u strengthen your rotator cuff with any exercises?

I used to on my day's off training at home but I found it made my shoulders more sensitive and sore during training, so i just have a good warmup and stretch before i train.

Thanks, you're welcome.

I do a few minutes worth of rotator cuff work before I jump into my workout. For me, it's mainly to warm my shoulders up and get the synovial fluid distributed evenly... get the creaks out. Only at the start of my workout and only to get my shoulders limber. In those few minutes of warming up I also spin my arms around testing the limits of my joint motion, and try to iron out any creaks as well. Standard sort of warm-up stuff.

I only use a max of 2-3kg for rotator cuff exercises. Enough to make me feel what I'm doing. Don't aim to build the muscle up with these exercises... all the stabilisation you do pressing (chest and shoulder) will override that anyway.

Also, make sure you stretch your shoulders out to their limits in the days between training them. Actively try and get rid of any impingement or entrapment.

[jerume]

thanks.

Whats your shoulder workout consist of? also sets/reps?

Do u find after you have done your rotator cuff exercises that you are

weaker for your workout?

As when i used to spend 5 minutes before my shoulder and chest workouts warming up my rotator cuffs i would be weaker when it came to doing my compound exercises.

[I Declare War]

thanks.

Whats your shoulder workout consist of? also sets/reps?

Do u find after you have done your rotator cuff exercises that you are

weaker for your workout?

As when i used to spend 5 minutes before my shoulder and chest workouts warming up my rotator cuffs i would be weaker when it came to doing my compound exercises.

Check it out in my routine - link in my signature below.

Nope, the rotator cuff work is kept light as possible and doesn't strain the joint... if anything it primes me up for a good workout and makes me stronger and more confident for my workout.

Keep the rotator cuff exercises as light as possible if you're doing them before your workouts as a warm up... use them only as a warm up not for any type of pre-exhaust.

[HarryB]

thanks.

Whats your shoulder workout consist of? also sets/reps?

Do u find after you have done your rotator cuff exercises that you are

weaker for your workout?

As when i used to spend 5 minutes before my shoulder and chest workouts warming up my rotator cuffs i would be weaker when it came to doing my compound exercises.

Check it out in my routine - link in my signature below.

Nope, the rotator cuff work is kept light as possible and doesn't strain the joint... if anything it primes me up for a good workout and makes me stronger and more confident for my workout.

Keep the rotator cuff exercises as light as possible if you're doing them before your workouts as a warm up... use them only as a warm up not for any type of pre-exhaust.

Totally agreed if done at the beginning of a workout and for anyone over the years of invincibility 18-25 absolutely essential. Every now and then I will do some slightly heavier rotator cuff work at the end of a workout as well because like all muscles they can stand some strengthening.

[I Declare War]

My shoulder injury is in my acromioclavicular (ac) joint. Yours probably is also, judging by the list of exercises that give you pain. I suggest you have a bit of a google and read up on it - here's an article with a section on ac joint injuries that you could have a look at: http://www.illpumpyouup.com/articles/prevent-and-treat-shoulder-injuries.htm

Totally agreed if done at the beginning of a workout and for anyone over the years of invincibility 18-25 absolutely essential. Every now and then I will do some slightly heavier rotator cuff work at the end of a workout as well because like all muscles they can stand some strengthening.

That's good advice, if you're going to do strenthening exercises for your rotator cuff, then as Harry suggests, do them at the end of your workout (or maybe even on non-workout or cardio days for a bit of rehab). Remember to keep them relatively light as it's easy to loose form on these exercises - loose form on these and you may as well not be doing them, you'll be making things worse.

[jerume]

thanks.

Whats your shoulder workout consist of? also sets/reps?

Do u find after you have done your rotator cuff exercises that you are

weaker for your workout?

As when i used to spend 5 minutes before my shoulder and chest workouts warming up my rotator cuffs i would be weaker when it came to doing my compound exercises.

Check it out in my routine - link in my signature below.

Nope, the rotator cuff work is kept light as possible and doesn't strain the joint... if anything it primes me up for a good workout and makes me stronger and more confident for my workout.

Keep the rotator cuff exercises as light as possible if you're doing them before your workouts as a warm up... use them only as a warm up not for any type of pre-exhaust.

thanks.

Whats your shoulder workout consist of? also sets/reps?

Do u find after you have done your rotator cuff exercises that you are

weaker for your workout?

As when i used to spend 5 minutes before my shoulder and chest workouts warming up my rotator cuffs i would be weaker when it came to doing my compound exercises.

Check it out in my routine - link in my signature below.

Nope, the rotator cuff work is kept light as possible and doesn't strain the joint... if anything it primes me up for a good workout and makes me stronger and more confident for my workout.

Keep the rotator cuff exercises as light as possible if you're doing them before your workouts as a warm up... use them only as a warm up not for any type of pre-exhaust.

Totally agreed if done at the beginning of a workout and for anyone over the years of invincibility 18-25 absolutely essential. Every now and then I will do some slightly heavier rotator cuff work at the end of a workout as well because like all muscles they can stand some strengthening.

Yeah i used to do them before my workout very light(2-4 kgs)nice and slow,around 3 sets for 2 exercises, i'll add them into my warm-up, I dont want another shoulder injury!nothing worse than losing all the gains you;ve made over months of hard training!

Some time's on my rest days i feel like doing something such as abs so i'll add in a few heavy rotator cuff exercises at the end of my training week to add some strength to my rotator cuffs.

Have you had a cortison injection in your shoulder? I had one around a year ago and i found it made it worse, apparently it makes it worse for 10% of patients?

[I Declare War]

Have you had a cortison injection in your shoulder? I had one around a year ago and i found it made it worse, apparently it makes it worse for 10% of patients?

Nope, I've no need for that... I think the pain in my injury is beneficial to me. When I aggravate my injury, I know exactly which rep of which set did it and it's always when I'm trying to do something I shouldn't really be.

If I were to mask the pain with cortisone, I'd break myself apart. I think it's best to learn to listen to your body. Cortisone is a catabolic steroid, it will waste away tissues in the vicinity where it is injected... I'd never use it unless there was no other option.

I don't think Cortisone goes together well with what we do as bodybuilders. In some instances it may be useful... For example, Arnie had a shot of it into his shoulder to help him win his last Olympia.

[jerume]

Have you had a cortison injection in your shoulder? I had one around a year ago and i found it made it worse, apparently it makes it worse for 10% of patients?

Nope, I've no need for that... I think the pain in my injury is beneficial to me. When I aggravate my injury, I know exactly which rep of which set did it and it's always when I'm trying to do something I shouldn't really be.

If I were to mask the pain with cortisone, I'd break myself apart. I think it's best to learn to listen to your body. Cortisone is a catabolic steroid, it will waste away tissues in the vicinity where it is injected... I'd never use it unless there was no other option.

I don't think Cortisone goes together well with what we do as bodybuilders. In some instances it may be useful... For example, Arnie had a shot of it into his shoulder to help him win his last Olympia.

Yes I heard that from many other bodybuilders about cortisone wastes away tissue, and I agree that it is best to work through the injury, not that I had a small tinge doing lying rear delt raises I know from now on to go lighter and higher reps with that exercise because i'm prone with injury, so like u say listen to your body and know where u have to be careful.

What rotator cuff exercises do you do?

I do the lying external rotation from side position,and standing external rotation 3 sets of each light weight

[I Declare War]

Have you had a cortison injection in your shoulder? I had one around a year ago and i found it made it worse, apparently it makes it worse for 10% of patients?

Nope, I've no need for that... I think the pain in my injury is beneficial to me. When I aggravate my injury, I know exactly which rep of which set did it and it's always when I'm trying to do something I shouldn't really be.

If I were to mask the pain with cortisone, I'd break myself apart. I think it's best to learn to listen to your body. Cortisone is a catabolic steroid, it will waste away tissues in the vicinity where it is injected... I'd never use it unless there was no other option.

I don't think Cortisone goes together well with what we do as bodybuilders. In some instances it may be useful... For example, Arnie had a shot of it into his shoulder to help him win his last Olympia.

Yes I heard that from many other bodybuilders about cortisone wastes away tissue, and I agree that it is best to work through the injury, not that I had a small tinge doing lying rear delt raises I know from now on to go lighter and higher reps with that exercise because i'm prone with injury, so like u say listen to your body and know where u have to be careful.

What rotator cuff exercises do you do?

I do the lying external rotation from side position,and standing external rotation 3 sets of each light weight

Yep, I do those... I don't really count any sets or reps for the warm-ups... all I go by is whether my shoulder is warmed up and good to go.

Give this a good read through: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... 041&page=1

[jerume]

Thanks for your help and replies,much appreciated,all the best with your training!

[I Declare War]

Thanks for your help and replies,much appreciated,all the best with your training!

Cheers mate, likewise!

[timeoutmode]

inject synthol

[I Declare War]

jerume, if you're still around... check this article out as well: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... and_shrugs