<< auckland newbie

[liquid_101]

hello been lurking in the shadows and finally found the time to sit down and write an intro. finding the forum a great resource of advice and info already - though as a newbie the science bit if proving a hard read.. .

been preparing myself over the past few weeks to start a strict new diet and gym routine. this has been on the 'to-do' list for many years - but lack of knowledge and motivation has kept this at bay ever since. time to get serious.. .

instead of jumping in blindly (knowledge is power right?) have spent the past few weeks reading and formulating the best plan of attack involving routine, supplement intake, improved diet etc and about to kick it all off this week (will get a BF baseline taken before).. .

to give some background context before i post any pics - i played competitive ice hockey through my teens until alcohol, partying and motorbikes took over - and then combined to show me the inside of an intensive care unit. shattered my right femur in a head-on car collision - escaping with some serious pin and plate work, a leg length discrepancy (3/4 inch) and three future hernia repairs. the real issue came after leaving hospital - the serious abdominal and chest fat that came with the subsequent depression and slow rehab - and i've have been trying to shift it ever since.. .

despite taking up running five years ago to get the ball rolling and completing thirty half-marathons since (PB 1.40) i'm still nowhere close to where i want to be physique-wise and this has been hard to suck up. inexperience and total lack of knowledge have (in my eyes) wasted the work of the past five years and i have to change that.. .

what has got me so motivated now is the small changes i noticed in only four weeks using a local corporate gym. i started going in July through a grabone deal and saw more positive changes in those thirty days than i've ever seen. this has given me the hunger.. .

current info >> 30 years, 169cm, 72kg, BF (TBC)

starting plan:

>> training :: bodytech circuit training every second day (training to failure) & running 6-10k inbetween

>> diet :: scoobysworkshop calorie calculator plan (lose fat / gain muscle option)

>> supplements :: horleys awesome mass before and after workout / horleys crossfire (casein) shake before bed / purple-k creatine pre (stacked with beta alanine) & post workout

under no illusions this plan is perfect - but it'll get me started, up and running. chosen to stick with bodytech to have the benefit of their supervised training so i can learn correct form and technique first. researched their all-over-body circuit training and again think its a good starting point. they'll push me to positive failure on every machine.. .

pleased to meet you all and look forward to picking your brains on a regular basis. comments or feedback welcomed and greatly appreciated - will get the BF done this week and will fish out some old and current photos. cheers :salute:

[liquid_101]

got my BF measured via bodymetrix - and currently 22% (shock horror). 15% is essential fat - so 7% (3.5kg) to aim for as a target for now.. .

one thing that has gotten me confused is the idea of eating more to feed new muscle growth. as muscle growth burns fat more effectively - am I best to over or under eat at this stage? under-eating would be catabolic right and you need to 'fuel the change'? but conversly fat loss will always occur when burning more calories than you consume?

he recommended my daily intake to be 1800kcal based on my five-day a week gym-run-gym-run-gym programme?

any thoughts / advice? cheers.. .

[Grover]

Hi & welcome

Broken femur is a bitch, 21 years later my right thigh still an inch smaller than left!

Diet seems to be your issuse.

Post what you eat, easy to say 1800 cals but it does help to spread it out evenly during the day. 5 to 6 small meals best.

Have a look at the forum listings for BB beginers

[rovr4on]

generally you cant gain muscle and lose fat at same time unless your a noobie, in which you are. In which case you should be able to shed fat and gain some muscle...Best bet would be to stick with 1800-2200 cals to lose that fat. Then when you get to 10-13% fat id recommend upping the calories then to gain further muscle mass...make sure in that 1800 cals your having at least 160gm of protein!!

[liquid_101]

cheers for the comments guys. will drop the kcal intake right down. checked out the scoobysworkshop counter and will drop to 1800kcal. here is a rough diet plan for now - gonna spend the weekend tweaking this up / down >>>

7am :: two weetbix, dried raisins, trim milk

10am :: protein shake & 30g rolled oats with sliced fruit (usually apple or kiwi fruit), trim milk

12.30pm :: tuna with quinoa, sundried tomatoes and spinach leaves

3pm :: 30g rolled oats with sliced fruit (usually apple or kiwi fruit), trim milk

7pm :: after-gym/run protein shake & dinner (the gf cooks everything healthy)

9.30 :: protein shake (casein)

*plenty water throughout the day with only one coffee first thing.. .

[Grover]

Looks a good plan, try it see what effect it has

[teamfatboy]

Hmmm - before you rush to cut down to 1800 cals...and as rovr4on has suggested...

Based on what you've said (age/ weight/ height/ gender and gym-run-gym-run-gym), I plugged the numbers into this BMR calculator - which I see is the one scoobyworkshop uses. With a basal metabolic rate of 1694 cals, adjusted for exercising 3-5 times/ week, your daily maintenance calories would be up around 2625...

Deducting 500 (which is a good practical near-term way to start) would suggest you should aim for around 2100 cals/ day, and that 1800 is a bit too light - you would risk sacrificing lean muscle mass.

Grover's point about meals is right - timing meals around workouts is critical. Small and every 3 hours (including a poss shake last thing before sleep).

Why 500 - it takes 3500 cals (coincidentally a 500 cal daily deficit for seven days) to burn 500g of fat. Since 500g/ week of fat loss is generally held to be a safe sustainable rate of weight loss, that's why.

Rather than slash overall calories to 1800/ day, I'd suggest 2100 calories, but when planning your diet, pay some serious attention to the protein-carbs-fat ratios. based on what little you've said so far, I think poss you'd want to boost that protein proportion, and consider checking out how much essential fats (including eg fish oil or flaxseed oil) you're getting - at the expense of carbs.

Even consider the carb-cycling option - hi-carb on weights days (to safeguard lean muscle) and lo-carb on cardio days.

[liquid_101]

I really appreciate you taking your own time to help out guys. I've looked at various online calorie counters and there is fluctuation in both my BMR and target calorie intake suggested. Teamfatboy > what was the 'goal' you used (step #6) in the scoobyworkshop counter? Loose fat & gain muscle?

It seems the sensible option to drop to 2100 and evaluate BF% in four weeks. Based on that I can then drop down further to the 1800.. .

Taking a casein protein shake at night - with awesome mass protein mid-morning and right after workouts. Will need to look at the calorie intake of these though as it's around the 320 mark each alone.. .

Plenty info coming my way - exactly what I was wanting / needing.. .

:clap:

[teamfatboy]

I didn't actually work through the Scoobyworkshop calculator to get to those figures...I used the Harris Benedict Equation directly.

I did get figures similar to Scooby, IF I set Scooby step 5 to moderate (3-5 hours/ week).

Good work with the casein shake, that's a great choice.

Rather than the calories, watch the "macros" (the ratios of protein-carbs-fats) in Awesome Mass tho - any "mass" protein shake tends to have a ton of carbs in, which is exactly NOT what you want.

[liquid_101]

any "mass" protein shake tends to have a ton of carbs in, which is exactly NOT what you want.

spent the last week working out an accurate diet spreadsheet - breaking down everything i'm eating / plan to eat & have given the mass shakes the boot - schoolboy error that one. also dropped the milk for water (doesn't taste as bad as i thought it would) and saved a massive 400kcals alone per day with these changes.. .

couple more questions ::

>> does a protein shake constitute a small meal? i know they can be termed 'meal replacement' but are they activating the metabolism as well as solid food? was previously having a shake and rolled oats with fruit mid-morning - but can save further if just shake.. .

>> is it true you can 'make' protein slow-release (as with casein) just by adding olive oil? any other methods? have been buying different styles of protein - and wondering if i can just buy one.. .

thanks.. .

[BeastBuilder]

any "mass" protein shake tends to have a ton of carbs in, which is exactly NOT what you want.

spent the last week working out an accurate diet spreadsheet - breaking down everything i'm eating / plan to eat & have given the mass shakes the boot - schoolboy error that one. also dropped the milk for water (doesn't taste as bad as i thought it would) and saved a massive 400kcals alone per day with these changes.. .

couple more questions ::

>> does a protein shake constitute a small meal? i know they can be termed 'meal replacement' but are they activating the metabolism as well as solid food? was previously having a shake and rolled oats with fruit mid-morning - but can save further if just shake.. .

>> is it true you can 'make' protein slow-release (as with casein) just by adding olive oil? any other methods? have been buying different styles of protein - and wondering if i can just buy one.. .

thanks.. .

Hey bro, I'll try help with your questions.

A protein shake can count as a small meal.. BUT.. having a shake with oats and fruit is probably the better option as just having protein by itself is not the best and you'll need some carbs for energy hence the oats and fruit, dont need to lower your kcals too much bro, just getting them under control should be sufficient. Also the carbs being absorbed and becoming glucose helps the protein be absorbed by the body so just another reason to keep the oats there.

As for your second question, adding fats, eg olive oil, to any meal will lower the GI which means it will slow down the release, but just be wary of the kcals if you are using this method as fats have 9 kcal per gram as opposed to proteins and carbs only having 4kcal per gram.

Hopefully that helped a bit, let me know if ya need a hand with anything else

[liquid_101]

thanks beast. noticed the heavy kcals with just a tablespoon of flaxseed oil. will stick to casein protein for now - as its not that much of a pain to buy. aiming for 2000-2100kcals a day to get the BF down a bit. will post up the macro ratios once worked out to see what you guys think of them.. .

cheers man! 8)