Getting around testing

[thatwaslight]

I know of several 'devout naturals' who i know for a fact are not, unless you have been living under a rock you wont find this to be a revelation but my question is what elaborate methods are used to get around it?

maybe some of the fellas who fit into this category can post from an anonymous account? LOL

in4 shit storm

[Android]

Lie detector, Valium.

Orals only.

Get big however u want then 2yrs+ later, compete in Naturals

[HumanPerformance]

It used to be alot easier years ago when the testing people called you and said be at such and such a place tomorrow at 12pm for a drug test.Then you would have time to plan your deception. By using a catheter and someone elses urine or thawing out some of your own that you had frozen for just such a time, it wasnt that difficult to pass a clean sample straight from your own bladder. Also if you had this prior knowledge you can ingest a masking agent to cover your tracks. "Defend" was the masking agent of choice for many years.And if you know the date you are going to be tested on (the day of your comp for example) it is not that hard to incorperate "bridging" techniques into your cycle where the levels of the hormone remains elevated in the blood but allows you 24-36 hours where no metabolites will show up in the urine. Even a lie detector is easy enough to beat by putting a drawing pin in your shoe and pushing your toe into it or deep heat under the armpits or other sensitive parts of the body (take your pick :pfft: ) and creating a pain response, then the test will always end up as "inconclusive" as even the initial questions used to form a baseline (i.e your name and adress) will look like lies.

But if you belong to a federation that just turns up on your doorstep and hands you a jar in the middle of the night and demands a sample from you, and from then on they watch your every move untill you have provided the sample, then things get a bit more complicated :wink:

[nate225]

There is no real testing in NZ Bodybuilding anymore, and hasn't been for a number of years. The question is moot really unless you are contemplating a one off event overseas or you are going to another tested sport.

Beating WADA testing 24/7 including blood testing for some peptides now (incl HGH) is pretty much impossible for high level amatuer athletes. Even designer drugs that are not detected yet may show up in future as samples are being routinely frozen & retested as new tests are developed. The old fast acting test (no metabolites to hang around like other AAS) is only an option until that 10pm knock on the door catches up with you! :pfft: :grin:

I'd suggest the real way guys beat tests is by having the only compound guaranteed to pass a test..... Money! :grin: $1000 says you knock again in 20 minutes when the "other TWL" arrives to take his test! :pfft: :grin:

Not worth it if you're thinking about it, many organisations are now handing out 4 year bans first time (others still 2 year). For many thats a career all over. Just my 10 cents though.

[maassive]

What do you guys think about pro league and union players and gear? I have heard that many are on or have used, but surely they are being tested?

[thatwaslight]

Yeah should have mentioned in my post I was referring to pro sports , powerlifting ect..

[nate225]

What do you guys think about pro league and union players and gear? I have heard that many are on or have used, but surely they are being tested?

Are tested but don't figure much in NZL stats - except leagies getting caught for smoking pot! :pfft: :grin:

No blood testing as far as I know with Union or League at present, though overseas there is as one League player in UK got the dubious honour of being the first guy to test positive for GH. :nod:

Have a nosey on http://www.drugfreesport.org.nz/ or http://www.sportstribunal.org.nz/ for NZL Doping cases.

This was interesting:

In partnership with its 117 Member Unions, the IRB operated a record testing and education programme in 2010. The IRB undertook 1,288 tests across men’s and women’s Fifteens and Sevens competitions in addition to over 4,000 controls undertaken by IRB Member Unions and National Anti-Doping Agencies. Despite the rigorous testing programme, there were just five IRB Anti-Doping rule violations in 2010.

Wonder if Bodybuilding could beat only 5 positives from 1288 tests! :pfft: :pfft: :pfft:

[maassive]

I don't know much about testing for steroids, so I guess my second question is if they are not blood tested and only urine, would you expect that many people are on and are hiding it?

You can't help but notice that so many league players look like they're on.... and SBW anyone?

[pyro]

SBW has always been huge though even in his younger days. Just one of those naturally built freaks.

[nate225]

I don't know much about testing for steroids, so I guess my second question is if they are not blood tested and only urine, would you expect that many people are on and are hiding it?

You can't help but notice that so many league players look like they're on.... and SBW anyone?

AAS are tested for in urine. Parts per million of metabolites or ratios of testosterone to epitestosterone (anything above 1:4 now - was once 1:9) are used to indicate positives. If its a T:E positive they now use isotope testing to confirm exogenous Test use and not a naturally high level (or tumour induced high ratio).

Masking agents are banned also so not much use using these - you'll get the same ban for probenicid/lasix/exogenous epitestosterone etc as you would for testing positive for AAS.

Top level athletes will be on no notice testing as well as in compettion testing. Targetted groups will also have to supply "athlete whereabouts" details and be available at a set place everyday for testing. Failure to be there can equate to a suspension. Sounds a bit OTT but thems the breaks for elite athletes in tested sports.

In short - yes people are on & hiding it, but it certainly isn't a walk in the park nowdays and eventually a majority will get caught if they are high profile enough.

As for SBW - he's gifted no doubt - has he used? Like anyone else that has never tested positive its speculation to say either yes or no! But for those that say he must be its definately not a given. There are quite a few guys with builds as good as his from sheer hard work and not AAS use. Unfortunately for us these freaks tend to get picked up by major sports rather than heading in to BBing.

Just my 10 cents!

[tomsammce]

sonny bill williams looks much bigger and more impressive in photoshoots and on television that in person... would he be on gear.. lol no.

while we are on the subject i dont see what all the fuss is about really with sbw... hes good but hes not great.. hyped up to f*ck and nonu and smith showing him no problems. and yeah ppl saying oh he only new to rugby, so what hes playing test rugby so u get compared to other test players.

id say its abit easier to look good on the league field when u are big strong and fast its a boofheads game, rugby is abit different... more brain required.

[Lurker]

Pretty sure they are tested anyway, like the two SA players who had 1-3 in their system from something like jacked and got banned.

None of the top rugby players would risk using, they are just the genetically gifted .0001% of the population, most of whom have been training since early teens. If anthing was to be used on the sly it would have to be something like GH or more something that stimulates natural production like the ghrps etc and it would be impossible to detect something that just spikes levels.

The guys cheating in natural shows though are utterly pathetic individuals but they do stand out to anyone who knows anything.

[holdenman]

I believe that the majority of sports have drug users. From the top (olympics, cycling etc.) all the way down to club level stuff.

I know provincial level rugby players who not only used but were told to do so by the team/coaches.

Rene Maitua in the nrl has recently finished a 2 year ban for clen.

Andrew Johns went through his whole career without failing a drug test and upon retiring admitted he used ecstasy throughout. Thanked his doctor...

[train hard]

lol at anyone who thinks the guys in the NRL are on juice because they are big and fit like it is unattainable makes me laugh hard work counts for nothing these days

[holdenman]

lol at anyone who thinks the guys in the NRL are on juice because they are big and fit like it is unattainable makes me laugh hard work counts for nothing these days

Fair call but do you think that not one of them has used/is using though? Rene was a pretty big name when he got done, forget who it was but a knights player got done for dealing amphetamines. Im sure that 95% of them are clean but theyre not all angels either.

[pyro]

lol at anyone who thinks the guys in the NRL are on juice because they are big and fit like it is unattainable makes me laugh hard work counts for nothing these days

Seems to be the mentality of the general public these days, people go into a gym see a couple of big guys and instantly assume they are on gear.

[Mike Zero]

lol at anyone who thinks the guys in the NRL are on juice because they are big and fit like it is unattainable makes me laugh hard work counts for nothing these days

Big, strong and really fit. I love League, but a lot ov the players at the top level are scumbags. From where I see it, cheating in sport is far less ov a moral attrocity than smacking your pregnant mrs over. Not saying they haven't worked hard to get to where they are, but c'mon, is taking drugs really that unrealistic if they can get away with it? Yeah they aren't unattainably fit. And they aren't unattainably massive - but you look at the majority ov gym-rats/so-called-bodybuilders who are on the juice and wonder if they even lift.

So you have pretty big guys, who have to be fucking fit and who are often scumbags - it's not that far out ov reach to make the leap that a bunch ov them are on P.E.Ds.

[HumanPerformance]

SBW has always been huge though even in his younger days. Just one of those naturally built freaks.

Yeah I am sure he is not on anything.His level of development is definately acheivable naturally. Especially when you take into account his training regieme and the fact that he is meticulous with his diet. He starts to worry as soon as his abs start to blur out slightly and he is straight back to clean eating again. He is obviously genitically gifted towards athletic endevours to able to compete as both a pro boxer and an all black, and so would have a higher than average number of fast twitch muscle fibres which of course makes the aquisition of a muscualr body alot easier.

[train hard]

lol at anyone who thinks the guys in the NRL are on juice because they are big and fit like it is unattainable makes me laugh hard work counts for nothing these days

Big, strong and really fit. I love League, but a lot ov the players at the top level are scumbags. From where I see it, cheating in sport is far less ov a moral attrocity than smacking your pregnant mrs over. Not saying they haven't worked hard to get to where they are, but c'mon, is taking drugs really that unrealistic if they can get away with it? Yeah they aren't unattainably fit. And they aren't unattainably massive - but you look at the majority ov gym-rats/so-called-bodybuilders who are on the juice and wonder if they even lift.

So you have pretty big guys, who have to be fucking fit and who are often scumbags - it's not that far out ov reach to make the leap that a bunch ov them are on P.E.Ds.

i played league for along time Bartercard cup in this country and queensland cup (reserve grade) in australia league has always been and always will be a working/lower class game thats its roots and that is where most league players come from the biggest problem is the drink and rec drugs it is rampant Train hard, play hard and party hard! thats the way it was no one talked about or thought about taking steroids im sure there are a couple but it would be a very small percentage and are probablly players who are struggling or not good enough to make the top grade the testing is pretty serious i got tested twice just randomly show up to training and tell you its your turn a couple of guys got a knock on the door at home too and where tested and that was at reserve grade nrl is even more strict. The guys train there ass off have very strict well planned diets and take advantage of the supplements they are allowed to take and finally they are naturally very gifted which is why guys with half there natural ability who struggle to believe that these guys can achieve what they have naturally

[snoopy]

lol at anyone who thinks the guys in the NRL are on juice because they are big and fit like it is unattainable makes me laugh hard work counts for nothing these days

Big, strong and really fit. I love League, but a lot ov the players at the top level are scumbags. From where I see it, cheating in sport is far less ov a moral attrocity than smacking your pregnant mrs over. Not saying they haven't worked hard to get to where they are, but c'mon, is taking drugs really that unrealistic if they can get away with it? Yeah they aren't unattainably fit. And they aren't unattainably massive - but you look at the majority ov gym-rats/so-called-bodybuilders who are on the juice and wonder if they even lift.

So you have pretty big guys, who have to be fucking fit and who are often scumbags - it's not that far out ov reach to make the leap that a bunch ov them are on P.E.Ds.

Mate, a certain level of fitness and a 16 plus inch arm is un-attainable for most.

The genetic ability which is required to harness the level of fitness that is present is way out of reach for most of the population sadly.

Its the same as a Nigerian chasing a 20 inch calf, or an Asian chasing a 20 inch arm, or 54 inch chest.

Stan Mcquay is reportedly an 8ml weekly man and he is a fitness model, around 5'8 88kg's 7 per cent... all genetics unfortunitly.

[genetic freek]

Sbw is not big and defo not on gear (maybe if he is :pfft: )

I saw the guy like 3 or 4 times a week (homo) and hes not big in person no way! Looks kinda like a swimmer - big tall lanky structure.

[Wookie]

I'll just chuck some 2c in here just for interests sake.

(not tooting own horn either btw)

I've won NZ titles in 5 sports, athletics, weightlifting, powerlifting, strongman and BJJ. The first 3 of those are drug-tested events. I went on the drug testing roster at age 16 and went off at 23 when I took a year off from lifting due to injury. What surprised me, is that in all that time, I only ever got drug tested once, and that was an expected test after winning PL nationals. Of course I didn't dare take anything illegal during that time, but it really surprised me how easy it would have been for me to beat a test had I wanted to. The only guys that seem to get tested out of competition regularly are the ones competing in Commonwealth or Olympic sports. Other than that, its pretty easy to work out when there will be testing and when there won't be.

SBW is on dat dere celltech bra,

[Grover]

I'll just chuck some 2c in here just for interests sake.(not tooting own horn either btw)

I've won NZ titles in 5 sports, athletics, weightlifting, powerlifting, strongman and BJJ. The first 3 of those are drug-tested events. I went on the drug testing roster at age 16 and went off at 23 when I took a year off from lifting due to injury. What surprised me, is that in all that time, I only ever got drug tested once, and that was an expected test after winning PL nationals. Of course I didn't dare take anything illegal during that time, but it really surprised me how easy it would have been for me to beat a test had I wanted to. The only guys that seem to get tested out of competition regularly are the ones competing in Commonwealth or Olympic sports. Other than that, its pretty easy to work out when there will be testing and when there won't be.

SBW is on dat dere celltech bra,

All those titles obvuiously didn't win you a lot of money!

Nate has spent 20c on this thread compared to your 2c

I see that in the Pacific games just held recently 4 bodybuilders returned a positive test! waiting to see who requests B sample testing before names released.

[nate225]

Wookie makes a valid point - I was on testing for 6 years with PLing and got tested once. That said I wasn't on the 'watch list' or whatever its called for PLing (not many on this as you have to be top few in world etc - got a feeling one of our young female lifters is on this now? Derek was always, but others not really high enough from a world perspective for a minority sport).

More highly funded sports, particularly those that go to Commonwealths / Olympics have broader criteria than the minority sport, so more athletes fall into the pool that 24/7 testing focuses on.

Everything has a budget including SPARC / DFS, so no surprises they focuses resources on high profile athletes.

Does that make 30 cents now Grover? :grin:

[maassive]

I'll just chuck some 2c in here just for interests sake.

(not tooting own horn either btw)

I've won NZ titles in 5 sports, athletics, weightlifting, powerlifting, strongman and BJJ. The first 3 of those are drug-tested events. I went on the drug testing roster at age 16 and went off at 23 when I took a year off from lifting due to injury. What surprised me, is that in all that time, I only ever got drug tested once, and that was an expected test after winning PL nationals. Of course I didn't dare take anything illegal during that time, but it really surprised me how easy it would have been for me to beat a test had I wanted to. The only guys that seem to get tested out of competition regularly are the ones competing in Commonwealth or Olympic sports. Other than that, its pretty easy to work out when there will be testing and when there won't be.

SBW is on dat dere celltech bra,

Hey Wook, you reckon many BJJer's dope? being on gear would give one a huge advantage I'd think...