Lagging chest... help

[train hard]

i have only recently stopped using the flat bench as my staple after spending about 10 years week after week smashing it and i have the bench to thank for alot of the upperbody mass i have gained i now do alot of dumbells and flys as my staple exercises as i am now focusing on the shape as well as the size and am getting the benefits of those now

i think there is no point getting fancy if you weigh 80 kilos and struggle to bench 60 but otherwise some great advice on here and like Android has shown you don't need flat bench to build a good chest but even if you use dumbells you still have to try use progressively heavier weight IMO

[Specter]

Lots of personal experiences here and all valid but without pics or timelines it's hard to tell which is best, maybe there is no 'best' or maybe the advice is specific to a type of body.

I advocate no barbell press for chest growth because that was taught to me by a power lifter in Perth so I religiously stayed away from it for 5-6 years and grew a pretty large chest from an inverted chest with just dumbbells. He asked me what I wanted to build and I said I wanted slabs of meat on my chest, not a bigger chest or ribcage per se.

Now that I have strong arms and a chest I can 'feel' a benchpress working for me and do partake in a benchpress every so often. I know plenty of guys that built a good chest from bench pressing as their staple exercise so cannot discount it's value. But I know imo it's not a "necessary" exercise for Chest development in bodybuilding, from my experience.

I rotate from dumbbell press to barbell press when it comes to chest trainings eg..week 1 would be barbell, then week 2 would be dumbbell and back again etc...I also rate dumbell flys in overall chest development as well..its nice having a big thick chest, but it is awesome to use flys to create the seperation down the middle of your chest... 8)

[musclenz]

This is all good stuff. I'm not saying that the flat bench should be your only weapon. In fact I prefer the incline barbell bench.

But... I can't help but thinking that some of this advice is getting a bit cute. I appreciate that many of the bodybuilders here have done a lot of heavy pressing with disappointing results. However, the benefits you are now reaping are probably helped by the solid foundation that you built when you did your time pressing.

I see too many skinny kids doing pec deck, cable crossovers and machine press. Heavy pressing (with good form) has got to be the basis of their training. Sure it is going to hit the shoulders, triceps, lats and a bit of chest. But this isn't a bad thing is it? IMHO of course.

Whilst not wanting to sound too "cute", I agree that there is still a place in your chest workout for flat bench press to target chest development but it cant be the mainstay of your program if you want to build defined & meaty pecs. I guess we have all seen those guys who can bench 180 for reps but wonder why their chest is still lagging in development. At these weights its almost impossible to target the relatively small fan shaped pectorial group (major & minor) & because of the many anatomical actions performed by these muscles to the arm & shoulder its makes sense to target these at various angles of attack which cannot be acheived by the bio-mechanics employed in a flat bench lift. Its just physically impossible. Sure you will get a great compound exercise going but you cannot effectively target the pec muscles on a flat bench.

[Dr Squat]

Whilst not wanting to sound too "cute", I agree that there is still a place in your chest workout for flat bench press to target chest development but it cant be the mainstay of your program if you want to build defined & meaty pecs. I guess we have all seen those guys who can bench 180 for reps but wonder why their chest is still lagging in development. At these weights its almost impossible to target the relatively small fan shaped pectorial group (major & minor) & because of the many anatomical actions performed by these muscles to the arm & shoulder its makes sense to target these at various angles of attack which cannot be acheived by the bio-mechanics employed in a flat bench lift. Its just physically impossible. Sure you will get a great compound exercise going but you cannot effectively target the pec muscles on a flat bench.

I agree with most of that. But I still argue that the big compound pressing movements (not just flat) are part of building the foundation that then allows you to exploit the pec muscles with those cute finishing movements. You can't build the walls until you have laid the foundation. I would also argue that those with the best chest development have all done their time heavy pressing.

[HarryB]

Whilst not wanting to sound too "cute", I agree that there is still a place in your chest workout for flat bench press to target chest development but it cant be the mainstay of your program if you want to build defined & meaty pecs. I guess we have all seen those guys who can bench 180 for reps but wonder why their chest is still lagging in development. At these weights its almost impossible to target the relatively small fan shaped pectorial group (major & minor) & because of the many anatomical actions performed by these muscles to the arm & shoulder its makes sense to target these at various angles of attack which cannot be acheived by the bio-mechanics employed in a flat bench lift. Its just physically impossible. Sure you will get a great compound exercise going but you cannot effectively target the pec muscles on a flat bench.

I agree with most of that. But I still argue that the big compound pressing movements (not just flat) are part of building the foundation that then allows you to exploit the pec muscles with those cute finishing movements. You can't build the walls until you have laid the foundation. I would also argue that those with the best chest development have all done their time heavy pressing.

In my limited experience I know loads of guys who are weak as piss with very good pec development. Just like I know a dude who has 20+ inch arms and never curls more than 20k dbs. I am one of those sad guys who worked up to a 180 bench and more with no pecs to show for it... cried myself a river then started focussing on feeling my movements! I think the foundation of power you build is fundamental to long term success but for actual pec development I am not convinced.

[yeahbuddy]

Whilst not wanting to sound too "cute", I agree that there is still a place in your chest workout for flat bench press to target chest development but it cant be the mainstay of your program if you want to build defined & meaty pecs. I guess we have all seen those guys who can bench 180 for reps but wonder why their chest is still lagging in development. At these weights its almost impossible to target the relatively small fan shaped pectorial group (major & minor) & because of the many anatomical actions performed by these muscles to the arm & shoulder its makes sense to target these at various angles of attack which cannot be acheived by the bio-mechanics employed in a flat bench lift. Its just physically impossible. Sure you will get a great compound exercise going but you cannot effectively target the pec muscles on a flat bench.

I agree with most of that. But I still argue that the big compound pressing movements (not just flat) are part of building the foundation that then allows you to exploit the pec muscles with those cute finishing movements. You can't build the walls until you have laid the foundation. I would also argue that those with the best chest development have all done their time heavy pressing.

In my limited experience I know loads of guys who are weak as piss with very good pec development. Just like I know a dude who has 20+ inch arms and never curls more than 20k dbs. I am one of those sad guys who worked up to a 180 bench and more with no pecs to show for it... cried myself a river then started focussing on feeling my movements! I think the foundation of power you build is fundamental to long term success but for actual pec development I am not convinced.

Genetics. I've got a pretty good chest yet I can't get my arms past 17". If I could trade half my chest development for better arms I would... and I'd still be left with a decent enough chest. Oh well, can't have everything I suppose (unless you've got some Synthol!). Haha

[nate225]

I've had to focus on pec development lately having made the switch to BBing after having been a SM competitor for the last 5 years (more overhead focus) & PLer for the 5 years previous to that (bench numbers before development).

What I've found working is more incline work, both dumbell and bar and a lot more flye movements (flat/incline/decline & on the odd occassion when no ones looking gayble crossovers).

I've been mixing up flyes first one week, then a pressing movement first the next; followed by a press or a flye respectively. The first exercise I do is always heavy 2-3 top sets, with preceeding exercises (a minimum of 2) more moderate weights for volume (8-15 reps, 3-5 sets).

I still bench flat but mainly lighter stuff and 'feel' the contraction, rather than just blasting weights off my chest.

Like many others have expressed I think the flat benching we're all introduced to has built a base for me, however like HarryB & Doc I think you need to expand you repetoire to develop further. Works for me anyway! :grin:

[yeahbuddy]

I still bench flat but mainly lighter stuff and 'feel' the contraction, rather than just blasting weights off my chest.

I agree with what you say here. Remember though that light and heavy is relative to ones own strength. If you're after size then you still need to have increasing your strength over time as one of your main priorities. Only when you are happy with your size should you consider becoming complacent about gaining strength.

If you increase your bench press to 140kg from 100kg over the course of a year and are able to do, say for example, 10 reps with the same form and tempo for the same number of sets (volume of work out), then you are going to have a significantly larger chest at the end of that year.

[Android]

Was reminded again about the common term "finishing movements" that people refer to, after hearing it last night in the gym by a guy with no legs, talking about leg extensions that way.

I wanted to tell this guy: "FFS leg extensions don't carve cuts into your legs man, they build up the muscles so that they leave a deep line between them!"

Same with chest...flyes and pec deck put muscle on your chest. They don't engrave a deep line down the middle of it to finish off your hard work of flat bench presses, they raise the chest either side of the centre to create that deep line.

[thatwaslight]

Was reminded again about the common term "finishing movements" that people refer to, after hearing it last night in the gym by a guy with no legs, talking about leg extensions that way.

I wanted to tell this guy: "FFS leg extensions don't carve cuts into your legs man, they build up the muscles so that they leave a deep line between them!"

Same with chest...flyes and pec deck put muscle on your chest. They don't engrave a deep line down the middle of it to finish off your hard work of flat bench presses, they raise the chest either side of the centre to create that deep line.

lol i always laugh at this, why are flys extensions ect referred to as 'shaping exercises' and not mass builders. as you say an exercise builds muscle or it doesn't

[snoopy]

Try Pectoralbol 50... targets your pecs

[HarryB]

Try Pectoralbol 50... targets your pecs

Did it work for you?

[startinfromscratch]

Try Pectoralbol 50... targets your pecs

monofemme is cheaper, garunteed to put inches on ya chest! LOL!!!!!!!!!

[snoopy]

Try Pectoralbol 50... targets your pecs

monofemme is cheaper, garunteed to put inches on ya chest! LOL!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHA!!! Why aim for a 50 inch chest when you can get a pair of double d's!!!

[snoopy]

sup everyone,

Just wanted some advice or tips on how I can bring my chest up to speed.. its by far my most lagging area.

Aiming for mass. My current routine is a 3-day split, 1 day on, 1 day off.

W1 - Arms/Back

W2 - Chest/Tri

W3 - Shoulders/Legs

My chest workout consists of:

Dumbbell flies 3x10

Bench press 4x10

Incline flies 3x10

Incline press 4x10

Barbell skull crushers 4x10

or something like that... I might switch barbell presses with dumbbells, or do close-grip presses one day but it's usually something similar. I don't feel I'm getting the most out of my chest workout.. I don't know if it's because I'm benching wrong, or if my tris are giving out before my chest.

Also... I'm working out at home with dumbbells and barbell only, so can't really add pec-deck etc to my routine

Anyone got any ideas of how I can bring my chest up to speed?

In all seriousness, you have to look at a number of factors including whether you have a 'short mans chest' or a 'tall mans chest'.

A short mans chest example is Phil Heath, with narrow collarbones and a 'bunchy' look... and a tall mans chest example would be Dwayne Johnson. Both look beter from different angles, and yours could be quite developed yet lacking in thickness or quite thick but narrow.

Chest mass is one of those things that you have or you dont, however you can always alter the problem (If your lacking) but get on with it early before your shoulders and tris are so developed that they take the load. Some pro's never fully develop their chests an example being Craig Titus.

Hit you chest from all angles, and make use of dumbells and dips.

Good luck, a good tip I picked up was to do flyes (which are great for mass) but stopping the bells touching 40cm apart... Great for the outer.

And know your anatomy, the upper clavicular head of the pectoralis major's fibres run different to the lower sternocostal head.

And the pec minor is not visible.

Also, keep your arms low during flyes as to eliminate work done by the Coracobrachialis.

The Coracobrachialis is the smallest of the three muscles that attach to the coracoid process of the scapula. (The other two muscles are pectoralis minor and biceps brachii.) It is situated at the upper and medial part of the arm. You can find it in your armpit, feels like a swollen lymphnode.

[Ann]

Anyone got any ideas of how I can bring my chest up to speed?

Just buy some - like I did. :pfft:

[musclenz]

Anyone got any ideas of how I can bring my chest up to speed?

Just buy some - like I did. :pfft:

\:D/ :pfft:

[Dr Squat]

And know your anatomy, the upper clavicular head of the pectoralis major's fibres run different to the lower sternocostal head.

And the pec minor is not visible.

Also, keep your arms low during flyes as to eliminate work done by the Coracobrachialis.

The Coracobrachialis is the smallest of the three muscles that attach to the coracoid process of the scapula. (The other two muscles are pectoralis minor and biceps brachii.) It is situated at the upper and medial part of the arm. You can find it in your armpit, feels like a swollen lymphnode.

FFS. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

[Dr Squat]

Anyone got any ideas of how I can bring my chest up to speed?

Just buy some - like I did. :pfft:

No point doing things in halves sister. :nod:

[train hard]

Anyone got any ideas of how I can bring my chest up to speed?

Just buy some - like I did. :pfft:

Pics or it didn't happen =P~

[Specter]

Was reminded again about the common term "finishing movements" that people refer to, after hearing it last night in the gym by a guy with no legs, talking about leg extensions that way.

I wanted to tell this guy: "FFS leg extensions don't carve cuts into your legs man, they build up the muscles so that they leave a deep line between them!"

Same with chest...flyes and pec deck put muscle on your chest. They don't engrave a deep line down the middle of it to finish off your hard work of flat bench presses, they raise the chest either side of the centre to create that deep line.

I just call it Seperation. (Pec deck sux anyway...use dumbells ftw)

lol i always laugh at this, why are flys extensions ect referred to as 'shaping exercises' and not mass builders. as you say an exercise builds muscle or it doesn't

Thats true, but training different areas of the chest in your overall development of the chest eg..flyes... I would class that as shaping/proportion training. Then again..has anyone on here seriously started off there Chest Training with heavy sets of flyes to begin with as a mass/strength stacker?... I could be totally wrong?

[nate225]

Was reminded again about the common term "finishing movements" that people refer to, after hearing it last night in the gym by a guy with no legs, talking about leg extensions that way.

I wanted to tell this guy: "FFS leg extensions don't carve cuts into your legs man, they build up the muscles so that they leave a deep line between them!"

Same with chest...flyes and pec deck put muscle on your chest. They don't engrave a deep line down the middle of it to finish off your hard work of flat bench presses, they raise the chest either side of the centre to create that deep line.

I just call it Seperation. (Pec deck sux anyway...use dumbells ftw)

lol i always laugh at this, why are flys extensions ect referred to as 'shaping exercises' and not mass builders. as you say an exercise builds muscle or it doesn't

Thats true, but training different areas of the chest in your overall development of the chest eg..flyes... I would class that as shaping/proportion training. Then again..has anyone on here seriously started off there Chest Training with heavy sets of flyes to begin with as a mass/strength stacker?... I could be totally wrong?

I did the other day doing Incline Flyes before pressing. HarryB does this quite often as well.

[Specter]

I just call it Seperation. (Pec deck sux anyway...use dumbells ftw)

lol i always laugh at this, why are flys extensions ect referred to as 'shaping exercises' and not mass builders. as you say an exercise builds muscle or it doesn't

Thats true, but training different areas of the chest in your overall development of the chest eg..flyes... I would class that as shaping/proportion training. Then again..has anyone on here seriously started off there Chest Training with heavy sets of flyes to begin with as a mass/strength stacker?... I could be totally wrong?

I did the other day doing Incline Flyes before pressing. HarryB does this quite often as well.

Maybe just me..I just never considered flyes a serious mass builder to start off with....will try it next time I switch my chest training and maybe post up a comment on it......

[Darwinstef]

Yes well I don't like to overthink training stuff, but back before I realised one day I would need some legs (bugger it) I would devote one workout a week just to chest. It was always simple and heavy.

Flat bench, incline fly, decline bench, flat fly, incline bench and decline fly.

4-5 sets per exercise.

Real rocket science stuff this but in the end my chest has been a strong point for years now.

[thatwaslight]

Would be an interesting experiment if someone only performed isolation exercises for a given muscle group for a decent cycle to see what results it would yield. I know I've seen study's for leg extn vs press and squat and it's over whelmingly press/squatting that induces growth by some enourmus margin (duh) but would be interesting to see if the same applys with chest