State of strength in teens

[Retro Blaster]

I was watching School of Hardf knocks on Maori TV last thursday and on it the strength coach said that the state of strength in our teens is very poor compared to other countries. I agree totally with this. ie the 1st 15 kids going into national rep teams... there strength is average at best.... taken that the poly and Maori boys are naturally big and strong compared to the likes of the States South africa and the UK these boys are at the bottom of the food chain.

IMO we need more focus on that aspect for these guys

[big MAC]

It's 12:30am so I shouldn't be posting but anyway...

I agree. I know guys who made Auckland under 18's for rugby. Props benching 110kg. Some guys making NZ under 19 for rugby were benching in the 130's, but cleans in the LOW 100's even in the forwards. It's just flat out sad I guess. My experience is that guys go to gym to get fit, are closet bodybuilders and just don't try to get strong.

[waldo]

And yet we have a great record at u19 age group, winning the world cup a couple of times in recent memory. Strength isn't the be-all and end-all in Rugby.

NZ squads pride themselves on fitness/power as opposed to strength, evident in how the ABs are always able to walk over opponents in the final 20 minutes. Compare that to the much bigger England and South Africa packs who are left gasping for air.

Having said all this, a couple of old weightlifting coaches, both from East Germany, made comment on how our teens didn't show the same traits as their young charges. Also they made the comment they were trained inadequately as well.

[big MAC]

That said, the strongest South african prop benches 175 and squats a little over 200. I remember hearing from a provincial prop there and he had the best squat on the team... 200kg.

[Retro Blaster]

I fully agree that strength is not the b all and end all of rugby. I have played at representitive level and it is average at best. Given that the elite rugby players such as Kees Meuws (has a bench of 220) are all very strong we lack the overall strength aspect that other countries have.

We need to get our 15 16 yr olds into proper lifting programs not only for sports but for over all general health and well being.

[Varven]

If we can get tha majority off them to lay off the alcohol and weed we'd see drastic improvements in not only fitness but education and all levels of socio economic development.

The relaxed easy going concept is what happens when we overstress our existence as a welfare country and always rely on each other.

No one ever truly struggles and drives to end up on the top.. the few that do get out off the country are invariably succesfull overseas.

[63]

not a teen any more but heard on tv last night jonahs going hard in the gym said he was squatting 280kg

[Retro Blaster]

The biggest falicy i have ever heard from the young guys these days is they dont want to get too big so they do high reps with light weights :shock: :disgusted:

There needs to be more education about the benefits of strength and power.

Holy shit Jonah thats a good squat for a tall dude like him!!!! He has the determination and drive though!!!

[2guns]

We need to get our 15 16 yr olds into proper lifting programs not only for sports but for over all general health and well being.

good luck!

and jonah lomus a has been, he wont wear the black jersey again. hes too old now.

he had a great carrer and was one of the best wingers of all time.

he should just leave it at tht.

trying to make a come back and fail would only taint the memories ppl have of the great winger

[big MAC]

not a teen any more but heard on tv last night jonahs going hard in the gym said he was squatting 280kg

Great stuff, I wonder how low he was going.

[Marcus]

I think you've got to have a balance. I mean, you see a lot of big strong forwards that don't get anywhere. It's one thing being strong, but it's another thing having good technique. That's why some of the ab's smaller props can roll the bigger boys.

[big MAC]

I hear you, Marcus on the technique. But I've thought lately, our big and "strong" props really aren't that strong nor that big. I would honestly expect an international prop to weigh 135kg, be solid without a gut, be able to clean at least 150kg, squat near 300kg and have a 40m time around 5 seconds or less. Thats not too much to ask but we rarely see it.

You end up with a bunch of tubby 115-120kg props. Whats the point? They're much slower than a loose forward, same strength and less endurance. We might as well fatten up our 2nd tire flankers and turn them into front row forwards.

big MAC (still remembering the days when props and locks were big)

[63]

We need to get our 15 16 yr olds into proper lifting programs not only for sports but for over all general health and well being.

good luck!

and jonah lomus a has been, he wont wear the black jersey again. hes too old now.

he had a great carrer and was one of the best wingers of all time.

he should just leave it at tht.

trying to make a come back and fail would only taint the memories ppl have of the great winger

i think he properly wont make the ABs again but he is doing it for himself he dosnt care if he dosnt make it but he would regret it for the rest of his life if he diddnt give it a go.good on him.

[waldo]

I hear you, Marcus on the technique. But I've thought lately, our big and "strong" props really aren't that strong nor that big. I would honestly expect an international prop to weigh 135kg, be solid without a gut, be able to clean at least 150kg, squat near 300kg and have a 40m time around 5 seconds or less. Thats not too much to ask but we rarely see it.

You end up with a bunch of tubby 115-120kg props. Whats the point? They're much slower than a loose forward, same strength and less endurance. We might as well fatten up our 2nd tire flankers and turn them into front row forwards.

big MAC (still remembering the days when props and locks were big)

Well, those days have changed. The teams that have the big props can't foot it for a full 80 mins. I'd also have to say Hayman isn't 'tubby'. A props job description nowadays is for more mobility as well as strength in the scrums. They make more tackles, they get to rucks and mauls much more quickly than they used to.

At the end of the day, a rugby team is judged by win/loss. The ABs seem to do much more winning than losing, so logic would dictate the current recipie is a winning one.

[2guns]

You end up with a bunch of tubby 115-120kg props

also regardless of the "big guts"

im sure the abs props much fitter than the majority of ppl on this site

[Marcus]

True Waldo, the game nowadays is a lot faster than what it used to be. You have to be big & fast so there has to be a sacrifice somewhere I guess.

In saying that, these professional rugby players are playing a lot more games per year now so it must be hard to build yourself up the the offseason (which is very short anyway) then struggle to maintain your weight during the season with such a high cardiovascular workload.

I have a friend playing in the Super 14 who tells me they are told not to go running outside of training because long term they end up losing too much muscle mass.

[2guns]

my cousin plays for the chiefs and he does alot of running outside of training hima dn his younger brother aare always at the gym and running together

[THEBERG]

I've trained alnong a side a few highlanders while i was studying and was shocked at how weak they were (gym wise) and how soft they seemed to train as well.

We have a PT at my gym that trains the local 2nd division team and his exercises and teaching of technique is very questionable, so i would say that even though the all blacks do well that overall we are lacking in any decent benefits from resistance training that other countries are receiving.

[of_wolf_and_man]

The biggest falicy i have ever heard from the young guys these days is they dont want to get too big so they do high reps with light weights :shock: :disgusted:

i'm still a teen but ye those bloody teenagers dont know what the hell they're doing... they wana look like the skinny bitches that girls like in their pathetic little magazines.... its a disgrace really for teens who really want to get big, but are given strange looks and comments because they're "too big" or because they might have role models like Dexter, Ronnie or Jay. so i says to all the skinny fellas and the 'it' girls

"WE (bodybuilders) are not humans. We're a different breed. A Superior breed and you humans will never ever come close to understanding our great ways."

[2guns]

2day i watched the sth land nrthland game it was on at the gym so saw glimpces between sets, today was sunday leg day :twisted:

for ppl tht have to runn aeround a paddock non stop for 80mins ther r sum pretty solid boys in ther.

and not everything matters how much u can bench etc. unless yr a powerlifter who gives a shit! ther at the top of ther chosen sport so they must be doing something right

[2guns]

its a disgrace really for teens who really want to get big, but are given strange looks and comments because they're "too big"

went to town on friday nite with the boys and hooked up with this bad ass chick and honestly bro if it wasnt for the bodybuilding/weights i wouldnt of gotten ther.

and thts wat the chicks r into (muscles etc)

f*ck the flash cars, bro anyone can get one of those but u have to train hard to get big and ripped!

and those fags tht get give u shit, bro theyre just jealous!

just flex yr arms at them then theyll shut up!

end of rant :pfft:

[of_wolf_and_man]

went to town on friday nite with the boys and hooked up with this bad ass chick and honestly bro if it wasnt for the bodybuilding/weights i wouldnt of gotten ther.

and thts wat the chicks r into (muscles etc)

f*ck the flash cars, bro anyone can get one of those but u have to train hard to get big and ripped!

and those fags tht get give u shit, bro theyre just jealous!

just flex yr arms at them then theyll shut up!

end of rant :pfft:

Amen to that! :grin:

[lazyone]

its a disgrace really for teens who really want to get big, but are given strange looks and comments because they're "too big"

went to town on friday nite with the boys and hooked up with this bad ass chick and honestly bro if it wasnt for the bodybuilding/weights i wouldnt of gotten ther.

and thts wat the chicks r into (muscles etc)

f*ck the flash cars, bro anyone can get one of those but u have to train hard to get big and ripped!

and those fags tht get give u shit, bro theyre just jealous!

just flex yr arms at them then theyll shut up!

:roll:

[big MAC]

its a disgrace really for teens who really want to get big, but are given strange looks and comments because they're "too big"

Try being 1.94m tall and weighing 130 odd kgs. I'll keep getting bigger anyway.

Oh, and screw this debate about rugby players... I'm basically saying I'd expect more freaks like Andy Sheridan and bigger/more versions of Kees or Os Du Randts. Obviously you need to be able to make 80 minutes, but some top rugby players are pretty weak.

[Marcus]

Neemia Tialata is a big unit. Apparently the strongest man in NZ rugby. Huge legs.