The POWERLIFTING DEBATE

[thatwaslight]

LOL at thrown into dumpster!!!

[Optimass]

LOL at thrown into dumpster!!!

no joke ... I have heard the legends of Tonka ... I just hope I can run fast enough

[HarryB]

So Tonka basically you are saying powerlifting is boring and we should just lump it, especially those of us who don't have the vast experience you do with it. Yep it's that attitude that got me away from PLing when I was a very very keen 19 year old. HTFU eh? lols that's as helpful as. That's like me telling up and coming bbers that the federation is fucked so just lump it and never say anything or you'll get hammered for it by all us old dogs who don't like new tricks.

I don't think anyone was disrespecting the established set up I think we just were offering ways in which it might be found more exciting by new lifters. As an enhanced bodybuilder I don't want to do a meet because I think I can beat anyone. Hell I know I won't beat guys 40 kilos lighter than I am. I just want to do it for the fun of it. Same as strongman... I would just enjoy being part of it. Sure if one of the strong men or PLers wanted to come across and do a bodybuilding show I would think that I could hold my own against them but I certainly wouldn't have a dig at them for trying. Ib fact you would find I more than encourage guys to have a go at it. End of the day I just lift weights and enjoy the contest more than the victory. People in every amateur sport do a lot for it, give their time and effort and passion an money. But all things have to evolve!!!!!!!

The small gym meets are great fun and I have done some over here in Sydney. I like doing my shallow squats and half arsed benches finishing off with my hitched deads lol... I think PLing is actually a great sport and can reach a lot more people. It's not as technical as olympic lifting and everyone can relate to a bench press and lifting something heavy off the ground. They can learn to enjoy squatting! BUT something is stopping it from progressing in NZ. Old guard not liking change is part of that.

[HarryB]

LOL at thrown into dumpster!!!

no joke ... I have heard the legends of Tonka ... I just hope I can run fast enough

make sure you at least have some bourbon I'll bring the hotdogs.. hobo living isn't all bad lol

[Tonka]

So Tonka basically you are saying powerlifting is boring and we should just lump it, especially those of us who don't have the vast experience you do with it. .

As sad as it was put across Harry, this is how I feel from a spectators perspective. A powerlifting comp can be long and drawn out (much like a BB morning pre-judging show) and I wouldnt be the first "seasoned" lifter to openly admit this. However as a lifter, this is not the case, its actually far from it! Like yourself, I lift tin because I love the feeling of moving as much iron as I can. Doing it in a competition environment enables me to measure myself against the best but more importantly, challenging myself.

Yep it's that attitude that got me away from PLing when I was a very very keen 19 year old.

Attitude??? I have no bad attitude towards anyone that lifts because its a common ground that we all have understanding and passion for. Just ask around and you will find I have always given up my time openly and freely to novice as well as seasoned lifters. Many say I should charge for what I share but why? I was in the same situation when I started and Ive never forgotten that. Its a shame that you were never encouraged as a junior when you had an interest, then again its never too late to comeback.

HTFU eh? lols that's as helpful as. That's like me telling up and coming bbers that the federation is fucked so just lump it and never say anything or you'll get hammered for it by all us old dogs who don't like new tricks.

This comment has been directed at a few in this thread (who are friends of mine too) that have been questioning the direction of the NZPF not only here but on another forum to which they are completely entitled too, just like I am when typed that out. What ever way you have taken this to mean is your call. These guys that I 've directed this at Ive actually been encouraging to join up. I know that when stood back and just watched for 5 years before actually joining the NZPF...I asked myself why did I wait so long once I made the plunge? Seeing the likes of the Pomana brothers, Cathy Millen, Lance Stewart, Steve Lousich doing their thing made me think that I probably wasnt going to be as strong as them...but hell, I would do all I can to try.

I don't think anyone was disrespecting the established set up I think we just were offering ways in which it might be found more exciting by new lifters. As an enhanced bodybuilder I don't want to do a meet because I think I can beat anyone. Hell I know I won't beat guys 40 kilos lighter than I am. I just want to do it for the fun of it. Same as strongman... I would just enjoy being part of it. Sure if one of the strong men or PLers wanted to come across and do a bodybuilding show I would think that I could hold my own against them but I certainly wouldn't have a dig at them for trying. Ib fact you would find I more than encourage guys to have a go at it. End of the day I just lift weights and enjoy the contest more than the victory. People in every amateur sport do a lot for it, give their time and effort and passion an money. But all things have to evolve!!!!!!!

I would disagree here with you Harry and it has been going on a while but reading between the lines there has been questions asked about the direction the NZPF. Some will agree with this direction and others have spoken against it openly. Many of us that are members would agree that the NZPF has taken a bashing here but I have mentioned there will be a changing of the guard in the near future. There are some great people in the mix that I would consider great additions to the running of the NZPF in the future...Doc, OB, Best Bench, Steak (who we are hoping will join soon) and even myself will all be looking to make the step up when its required.

The small gym meets are great fun and I have done some over here in Sydney. I like doing my shallow squats and half arsed benches finishing off with my hitched deads lol... I think PLing is actually a great sport and can reach a lot more people. It's not as technical as olympic lifting and everyone can relate to a bench press and lifting something heavy off the ground. They can learn to enjoy squatting! BUT something is stopping it from progressing in NZ. Old guard not liking change is part of that.

I too think gym comps are great as well...it gives novices a chance to experience a competition experience without being an official member. Its also a great way to encourage gym goers that there are sports that they can participate in NZ besides Rugby, League and Netball

[Tonka]

Firstly - I don't think people are discrediting anyone ... the topic was created to discuss the feasability of another federation and overall as you have stated there seems to be good support.

A bit harsh really - if I had wanted to join I would have, that doesn't mean I can't present an opinion based on what I observe as a "novice" > but then I'm not even that because I havent and probably wont ever compete in a formal comp. that doesn't take away someones interest in the sport. I watch rugby, have an opinion like everyone else, but I don't play ....

I share a lot of respect for Powerlifters - probably more recently as Steak has been a great ambassidor and even after 18 years of training I'm learning quite a lot of useful things.

I must admit most (generalisation) bodybuilders have average technique when it comes to the squat - I'm living proof but it doesn't take anything away from the training itself which normally involves a lot more concentration of moves on one body part. And when done heavy it looks as impressive. IMO I'd rather be able to squat 180kg clean for 12 reps than 240 for 1 rep. To me thats way more impressive - the reality is you instinctively risk a lot by going through to full depth which is why its not promoted in modern day degrees.

In saying that > the angle I think is an opportunity is around a coalition between bbding and pling as I think it would be great for both sports.

Anyway - I'm going to stop now as I want to avoid being thrown in the dumpster when you come out for CBC lift :shifty: Like I say if you or any of the members in the NZPF have been offended by the discussion I think it's being taken out of context. Apologies ....

I'm off to do my 1/4 squats and cable crossovers :grin:

Hey bro, its all good. I realise that forums are what they are and people are entitled to their opinions. Ive re-read what I wrote and it didnt exactly come out the way I really wanted it too (not surprised seeing it was before dinner - no food) but being honest, a few of the crew did feel that there was some digging at the NZPF and for the last couple weeks Ive been waiting for someone to speak up and no one did... Its a hard one OM, I see both sides of the arguement and realise that the current NZPF direction isnt going to be everyones cup of tea but there were certain loop holes that needed to be closed up in order to prevent what we went through last year with our recent drug-testing results. Unfortunately the end result is, it means forcing peoples hands to commit earlier to the fed as opposed what was in play before the rule change. That being said, we have probably lost more potential lifters because of this but in the process protected the integrity of the sport and that is trying to promote a Drugfree stance.

Didnt mean to cause rakus bro getting all high and mighty but in September you'll find Im far from what may have been portrayed from my spat. Im probably like you...I like directing all my anger at the iron!

I too share a mutual respect with BB'ers and always have. A good friend of mine (Darren Onekawa) is living his dream of being a pro-BB'er and Im all for that. Its hard not to admire those that go out there and just do it, even with all the doubters and haters...they forefill it because they believe!

Stay strong bro and Sept 17 will be epic!

Train hard

[tomleegolf]

When I went to watch the WBOP Bench Press champs, TBH it was quite boring and I wasn't quite sure what was going on. It was hard to tell how much a person was lifting or who was lifting because there was no MC or a display telling you.

Whereas the Auckland one where I competed in, BarBrother was the MC and I reckon he did a pretty good job. Like when I was squatting 130kgs, he would say "That's a double bodyweight squat there" or when deadlifting 160kgs, "Almost 100kgs heavier than he is" so that even though it's not a lot of weight powerlifting wise, it would give the spectators something to relate to. The display was quite handy too, showing the weight being lifted and the name of the person. And there was some music being played too. So yeah, the Auckland comp was quite fun, but then again, that might just have been because I was competing.

Oops, it's way past my bedtime

[Optimass]

Hey bro, its all good. I realise that forums are what they are and people are entitled to their opinions. Ive re-read what I wrote and it didnt exactly come out the way I really wanted it too (not surprised seeing it was before dinner - no food) but being honest, a few of the crew did feel that there was some digging at the NZPF and for the last couple weeks Ive been waiting for someone to speak up and no one did... Its a hard one OM, I see both sides of the arguement and realise that the current NZPF direction isnt going to be everyones cup of tea but there were certain loop holes that needed to be closed up in order to prevent what we went through last year with our recent drug-testing results. Unfortunately the end result is, it means forcing peoples hands to commit earlier to the fed as opposed what was in play before the rule change. That being said, we have probably lost more potential lifters because of this but in the process protected the integrity of the sport and that is trying to promote a Drugfree stance.

Didnt mean to cause rakus bro getting all high and mighty but in September you'll find Im far from what may have been portrayed from my spat. Im probably like you...I like directing all my anger at the iron!

I too share a mutual respect with BB'ers and always have. A good friend of mine (Darren Onekawa) is living his dream of being a pro-BB'er and Im all for that. Its hard not to admire those that go out there and just do it, even with all the doubters and haters...they forefill it because they believe!

Stay strong bro and Sept 17 will be epic!

Train hard

No worries at all ... I think the NZPF has done a great job of administering the drug policy (way better than any nz bbing fed, including the natural one(s) ...) And to be honest it creates a safe environment for new comers as in bodybuilding, (IMO) the recreational use of performance enhancing drugs is in some ways far too accessible, which poses risks to those starting out in being not quite fully informed. The fact that for the most part the testing in NZPF has only shown to snag a few, given the amount of testing that I have heard goes on is outstanding.

Didnt mean to cause rakus bro getting all high and mighty but in September you'll find Im far from what may have been portrayed from my spat. Im probably like you...I like directing all my anger at the iron!

No worries here either man - passion for sport and those that support it is commendable. We haven't met but your reputation speaks for itself and those that we know mutually speak very highly - respect.

A good friend of mine (Darren Onekawa) is living his dream of being a pro-BB'er and Im all for that.

Agree - very much the same sentiment shared with MD and MK when they got their cards and were off to compete in their first pro shows.

[Viking Power]

There are people in this organisation that have sacrificed so much of their own time (some for decades) to see the fed continue to run year after year without any reward and no recognition. These poeple are gold and in time,

True if it wasn't for Colleen Sellars, Yourself and Jono I wouldn't have enter my first novice comp, and as I have posted above there are so many people in this sport who are willing to take time out to show me and others on here how to prefect techinque which is great :clap:

a new breed will step up and take control but for now, I ask many of you this...

If you are trully passionate about the sport and enjoy shifting tin, you'd put aside the "hear say" talk and just HTFU and join up

I see alot of contributors to this thread have done very limited competitions (most at novice level) and hardly any national championships let alone internationals

I guess this is directed at me / well I fall into this caterory either way.... and fair enough I will join cause I do enjoy shifting tin, but I think throwing ideas out there to, to make the comps a little more excititng for on lookers isn't a bad idea 8) I didn't see any digs thrown at NZPF just ideas to make things a little more exciting for on lookers and new lifters.

which leaves me thinking that if you havent been there and done it, how can you compare what it is you have actually know to what you have actually done?

True..... I have given alot off my free time in the past to spot and load at comps and I am not even a member... my thoughts were some comps are better than others that I have being at, and IMO a good MC at these events has made it better I remember Lance doing a great job at a comp funny and serious a good mix and the next comp I was at it was pretty flat.... I think Darren is doing a great job with improvements in APA and a good mate :clap:

Watching a compilation of the worlds best lifters on Youtube does absolutely nothing for me and comparing it a the IPF Powerlifting Youtube promo film is crap!!

True :pfft: :pfft: Chalk and Cheese you have one clip with the top 5 in the world in a untested fed vs promo clip for IPF.

But on the flip side I love seeing huge amounts off tin moved tested or not so respect to the King off Kings in what ever fed. 8)

Lets be straight up here...powerlifting comps are boring and Id be the first to admit that and having music and showgirls walking around in skimpy attire will do very little if you have a female lifter benching 65kg

you cant have all the big lights and big sounds for only the big boys and forget about the newbies and the joe average lifters...

Ummmm.... right and wrong here I think I don't think they are boring but could be ligthen up and some great Ideas have come up with food and drinks, promo gear and equipment stands, supplement stands is a great idea IMO, I also think you can have music in between lifts we train to music? well i do if i need to get fired up a little more! and abit off life at a comp has gotta be good but as I said before leave the fireworks, beers and Sluzza's for the Anorlds....

on a finishing note for me I have no issues with how things are run and I have good friends in and out off it but if we are wanting to get new breed into our sport at any level it may need a re think on how to attract it and keep it, no disrespect 8)

Stay Strong

VP