The POWERLIFTING DEBATE

[Viking Power]

Well still more atmosphere than the morgue like novice comps I have seen would definitely be a helpful thing.

hahahaha! If every comp was WPO style i'd be there with bells on, at the end of the day it would allow for massive dudes juiced up pushing massive weight.....and i can guarantee it would become faaaaar more popular.

As much as its great that little timmy can shirt up and press 120kg, that's not going to draw huge crowds is it. we want to see the bar bending, nose bleeds people getting crushed by 450kg lol jk. If national rugby was 70kg high schoolers running round it wouldn't have much of a following would it.

Bring on the music, gassed up gorrilas, and girls in bikinis!

Personally this was my point, as its gone around in a cricle from people giving and all out effort and putting spark in to Novice / Powerlifting Comps, I totally agree I want to watch bars bend and see the best in people under a huge amount off weight and that either they get crush by the iron / miss a lift or come out on top thats powerlifting for me..... juiced or natural I don't give a shit thats unless you aren't playing by the rules you are supposed to be playing too and titles and records are up for grabs.

And as for little Timmy who's to say he ain't the next bench King in 5 - 10 yrs.

My point was you won't see little Timmy at present benching in WPO atsopheme with the lights and loud music and over excitied crowds the only ones will be his parents, but yes little Timmy needs to be drawn to the sport and needs to remeber his comp as a great frill but how? simple is best maybe good music and good MC anyway just my thoughts but leave the lights and fireworks B/girls and beers to the best off the best where I think it belongs cause that will draw crowds and [people go away on a massive high well I would.

[HarryB]

Well still more atmosphere than the morgue like novice comps I have seen would definitely be a helpful thing.

hahahaha! If every comp was WPO style i'd be there with bells on, at the end of the day it would allow for massive dudes juiced up pushing massive weight.....and i can guarantee it would become faaaaar more popular.

As much as its great that little timmy can shirt up and press 120kg, that's not going to draw huge crowds is it. we want to see the bar bending, nose bleeds people getting crushed by 450kg lol jk. If national rugby was 70kg high schoolers running round it wouldn't have much of a following would it.

Bring on the music, gassed up gorrilas, and girls in bikinis!

Personally this was my point, as its gone around in a cricle from people giving and all out effort and putting spark in to Novice / Powerlifting Comps, I totally agree I want to watch bars bend and see the best in people under a huge amount off weight and that either they get crush by the iron / miss a lift or come out on top thats powerlifting for me..... juiced or natural I don't give a shit thats unless you aren't playing by the rules you are supposed to be playing too and titles and records are up for grabs.

And as for little Timmy who's to say he ain't the next bench King in 5 - 10 yrs.

My point was you won't see little Timmy at present benching in WPO atsopheme with the lights and loud music and over excitied crowds the only ones will be his parents, but yes little Timmy needs to be drawn to the sport and needs to remeber his comp as a great frill but how? simple is best maybe good music and good MC anyway just my thoughts but leave the lights and fireworks B/girls and beers to the best off the best where I think it belongs cause that will draw crowds and [people go away on a massive high well I would.

OK but can we at least have hotdogs... cmon VP!!!

[Viking Power]

hahahaha! If every comp was WPO style i'd be there with bells on, at the end of the day it would allow for massive dudes juiced up pushing massive weight.....and i can guarantee it would become faaaaar more popular.

As much as its great that little timmy can shirt up and press 120kg, that's not going to draw huge crowds is it. we want to see the bar bending, nose bleeds people getting crushed by 450kg lol jk. If national rugby was 70kg high schoolers running round it wouldn't have much of a following would it.

Bring on the music, gassed up gorrilas, and girls in bikinis!

Personally this was my point, as its gone around in a cricle from people giving and all out effort and putting spark in to Novice / Powerlifting Comps, I totally agree I want to watch bars bend and see the best in people under a huge amount off weight and that either they get crush by the iron / miss a lift or come out on top thats powerlifting for me..... juiced or natural I don't give a shit thats unless you aren't playing by the rules you are supposed to be playing too and titles and records are up for grabs.

And as for little Timmy who's to say he ain't the next bench King in 5 - 10 yrs.

My point was you won't see little Timmy at present benching in WPO atsopheme with the lights and loud music and over excitied crowds the only ones will be his parents, but yes little Timmy needs to be drawn to the sport and needs to remeber his comp as a great frill but how? simple is best maybe good music and good MC anyway just my thoughts but leave the lights and fireworks B/girls and beers to the best off the best where I think it belongs cause that will draw crowds and [people go away on a massive high well I would.

OK but can we at least have hotdogs... cmon VP!!!

:horseshit: NO

hell yes... bring on the hot dogs :pfft: :pfft:

[steak]

this....

[steak]

or this

[Optimass]

1st one rocks the bells ... 2nd one was a bit bradey bunch ... just my opinion ...

[thatwaslight]

1st one rocks the bells ... 2nd one was a bit bradey bunch ... just my opinion ...

Agreed

[Big john]

1st one rocks the bells ... 2nd one was a bit bradey bunch ... just my opinion ...

Agreed

mewh you 2 just like the Mat Kroc DB rows in the 1st clip :pfft: :pfft: j/k

i will +3 that thou for the 1st clip. alot more flair

[steak]

This subject has been discussed quite a bit in the gym etc lately too and one thing that got mentioned was the lack of available products at our local lifts.

Where's the shirt and suit reps with a table of gear, wheres the supplement sponsor or guy wanting a few extra sales or doing some sampling?

Wraps, shoes, belts, tees etc..someone is missing out on a few bucks and some point marketing here. Simply answering some simple questions like "which shirt do you think would suit my style of benching" or " Which warps should I use for training" would have set up new client relationships etc and no doubt future sales. I know sometimes time and travel, family obligations are concerns but other reps or local associations could help out with a small product and sales display perhaps even commissioned based...a nice touch with a supplier supporting the assocations.

I know one of the guys at the the last Auck novice wanted to shift 3 sets of wraps and a suit and within the course of the session they were either all sold or spoken for!

One comp we did at Auck Uni they handed out RTD shakes and bars to the competitors during the day..a great idea and good marketing.

[Dr Squat]

Strong guys and girls lifting massive weights makes for great entertainment. With respect to the current powerlifting shows, there is an abundance of masters men and women who tend to dominate the lifter ranks.

Before you go off at me for being anti old people, let me remind you that I am big advocate of the young and old being involved in powerlifting and all sports. But the fact remains that they are generally not as strong and therefore not as exciting to watch as strong guys and girls lifting massive weights. Given current lifter numbers they often lift with open lifters in competition. Powerlifting needs to figure out how to deal with this one.

[Viking Power]

Strong guys and girls lifting massive weights makes for great entertainment. With respect to the current powerlifting shows, there is an abundance of masters men and women who tend to dominate the lifter ranks. Before you go off at me for being anti old people, let me remind you that I am big advocate of the young and old being involved in powerlifting and all sports. But the fact remains that they are generally not as strong and therefore not as exciting to watch as strong guys and girls lifting massive weights. Given current lifter numbers they often lift with open lifters in competition. Powerlifting needs to figure out how to deal with this one.

:pfft: :pfft: I could fix this one but I wouldn't be liked One open class for all men and one for women and wilks wins..... watch the fatties complain :pfft: :pfft:

[HarryB]

And that's the problem.. how do you change it and make it more attractive to newbies. I say by adding some entertainment aspect. Same as bodybuilding. There's a reason why most people only go to the night show... cos the prejudging is the most boring thing on earth! I have been to a few PLing events that are like a day long prejudging... even if guys are lifting big weights.

[Viking Power]

And that's the problem.. how do you change it and make it more attractive to newbies. I say by adding some entertainment aspect. Same as bodybuilding. There's a reason why most people only go to the night show... cos the prejudging is the most boring thing on earth! I have been to a few PLing events that are like a day long prejudging... even if guys are lifting big weights.

Agreed, 8) Passion seems to be lagging in my views in younger people today in the old days :roll: people would do a sport cause they loved it, maybe hence why the masters In NZ seem to rule the roost so to speak with the exception off a handful off young ones, Sport and money in today sports could have something to do with this also?

but how to try and grow the sport.....the adverstising would be a good starting point for the workshop days and comp days this needs to get out to every gym and school instead off the usual suppects via email maybe?

Comps could also have a revamp / abit more intertainment and the selling off products and samples couldn't go a miss, people can't even get a drink or something to eat / hotdog :pfft: at these events just abit old school in this sence...

But this all comes at a cost like your night shows for bodybuilding I guess make it more exciting great but pay at the door too now which i think isn't unfair to make thing exciting.... something else to think about i guess...

[Big john]

i do belive their needs to be a "entertainment" value added to the comps, it is a spectator sport after all

As for the marketing aspects, fully agree. Missed opportunities it would seem..if you did it right sponsers like titan/inzer of even the regional fedz could Utilize the breaks betweens the lifts. like steak said by selling samples/wraps etc

Hell, would it even hurt to Promote some of the clubs who exclusively train for these events?

How i see it is this, if u Promote the Local clubs at these events. they inturn could generate members for that said "club", more members means higher possible attendances at comps

[HarryB]

I guess the problem is that we are all involved in niche sports... and I guess added to that is the fact that 99% of the people involved are waiting for someone else to do something to make the situation rather than thinking about what they can do. It's exactly like bodybuilding.

[thatwaslight]

I guess the problem is that we are all involved in niche sports... and I guess added to that is the fact that 99% of the people involved are waiting for someone else to do something to make the situation rather than thinking about what they can do. It's exactly like bodybuilding.

like everything bro lol amen

[Viking Power]

I guess the problem is that we are all involved in niche sports... and I guess added to that is the fact that 99% of the people involved are waiting for someone else to do something to make the situation rather than thinking about what they can do. It's exactly like bodybuilding.

:nod: :nod: sad but true...... but the worst thing is some off these people want these postions in our sport that could act on new changes but don't seem to won't to make changes for right or wrong.....thats why the road is long more than likey and while others have had enough off trying to push and given in it seems from an outsider looking in.

But money would help alot off issues at ground level.

[HarryB]

I guess the problem is that we are all involved in niche sports... and I guess added to that is the fact that 99% of the people involved are waiting for someone else to do something to make the situation rather than thinking about what they can do. It's exactly like bodybuilding.

:nod: :nod: sad but true...... but the worst thing is some off these people want these postions in our sport that could act on new changes but don't seem to won't to make changes for right or wrong.....thats why the road is long more than likey and while others have had enough off trying to push and given in it seems from an outsider looking in.

But money would help alot off issues at ground level.

Well I guess first off we could look at how we behave and are perceived by people, remembering that at every level we affect how people perceive our sports in general. That doesn't cost anything and yet how many of us know a great bodybuilder or powerlifter who was approachable and friendly and drew our interest in the sport. Not many guys think about that aspect of it.

[Viking Power]

I guess the problem is that we are all involved in niche sports... and I guess added to that is the fact that 99% of the people involved are waiting for someone else to do something to make the situation rather than thinking about what they can do. It's exactly like bodybuilding.

:nod: :nod: sad but true...... but the worst thing is some off these people want these postions in our sport that could act on new changes but don't seem to won't to make changes for right or wrong.....thats why the road is long more than likey and while others have had enough off trying to push and given in it seems from an outsider looking in.

But money would help alot off issues at ground level.

Well I guess first off we could look at how we behave and are perceived by people, remembering that at every level we affect how people perceive our sports in general. That doesn't cost anything and yet how many of us know a great bodybuilder or powerlifter who was approachable and friendly and drew our interest in the sport. Not many guys think about that aspect of it.

This is true, personally there are top record holders in NZ powerlifting current and past that are only to willing to give advice even to a no one like me which has being great and helpful to no end.... I said to some one a while ago if you were playing rubgy would an All black give up some off there time to help you (not bloody likey if they are not getting paid) there is plently off help out there and on this forum, but this doesn't liken up comps from being boring so to speak and how they are run it does how ever bring people to have a go and a look.

For me I never seen them to be boring but they could do with a re-vamp and brought into the year 2000 and H mate your right it costs nothing to be humble :wink:

[HarryB]

I know first hand how the trickle down effect works. I was always interested in bodybuilding but if it wasn't for one particular early mentor I doubt very much I would have ever competed. There was a lot of naysayers on the way up and some of them were well known and successful guys in bodybuilding. You never forget the a-holes in the industry and I am damned if I was ever going to become one of them and you never forget that person you met who turned it around for you. Now at 500 years old I take pride in knowing that I have positively affected young guys who I have come into contact with and if they are bettering what I was doing even more so!

[Wookie]

Might as well chuck a couple thoughts in the hat...

Firstly, I've been very much helped by people within the IPF. There are good people within the sport in NZ, and many of them put a ton of work in for not much back. Steve L is one such person of many. Big respect.

Secondly, I've noticed often the people that make the most noise about potential changes, are also the least likely to actually do anything. There is room even in the NZPF for people with ideas to come in and get down to business. Darren Neves is an example of a young guy who has come in and done a heck of a lot of work in keeping the sport in Auckland running. If you've got ideas, and want change... act. If you don't want to act, then try influence people who will act. Consider also whether you're just a whinger.

Third, from my opinion, I'm uncertain whether a fully sanctioned and tested federation is necessary for everyone. From where I sit, the federation best serves the interests of people who want to compete at national and international level, under strict umpiring, and with legitimate drug testing. I had absolutely no bones with joining the NZPF in 2008 and 2009 when I was competing at a national level and preparing for jnr worlds. However, now, I'm making a strongman comeback and competing in powerlifting is not high on my priority list. While I'd like to lift in the odd competition here and there, paying a few hundred $'s to join the national fed, local fed and be subject to some guy showing up at my house at 10pm with a cup; doesn't fit high on my priority list (disclaimer, I can pass a test no sweat). A local gym comp or two would be just fine, and I'd venture to think alot of people feel the same way. So my point is, I'm thinking there needs to be room for unsanctioned comps for people to just come compete if they wish for $20 bucks. If the IPF then want to ban such people... well go ahead.

Fourth, music etc are great. But showing your own charisma as a lifter, and bringing your own intensity to a competition can be even better. Consider asking if you're a boring lifter, before you say a competition is boring.

[HarryB]

Interesting points Wookie and particularly valid to someone like me who would enjoy doing a meet here or there but doesn't want to sign up with anyone or subject myself to random testing. (Disclaimer, I would fail lol)

Not in total agreeance with you in regard to people being boring lifters. I mean essentially if the atmosphere is quiet and boring it's pretty hard to be anything different and I guess most of what has been said so far has been related to attracting new athletes to a meet. And how does a dude lifting a tiny weight create personality or atmosphere... well the atmosphere has to be there so people can get excited about it being his maximal effort, not so much about the weight. At strongman you will see guys who are clearly behind the competition and yet because of the atmosphere they are applauded... at most PLing events the same poor guy is pouring his heart into his lifts and busting his balls while people are chatting to each other or grumbling about how long it's taking to get to their mates lift.

[Tonka]

I've been reading over this thread for a while now and from what I can gather from the current posts is that there is alot of bitching going on about the way the NZPF run their fed/comps. The current and only fed in NZ is in the process of catering for RAW (that appears can't come soon enough for many on this forum) as well as equipped lifting; There are people in this organisation that have sacrificed so much of their own time (some for decades) to see the fed continue to run year after year without any reward and no recognition. These poeple are gold and in time, a new breed will step up and take control but for now, I ask many of you this...

If you are trully passionate about the sport and enjoy shifting tin, you'd put aside the "hear say" talk and just HTFU and join up.

I see alot of contributors to this thread have done very limited competitions (most at novice level) and hardly any national championships let alone internationals which leaves me thinking that if you havent been there and done it, how can you compare what it is you have actually know to what you have actually done? Watching a compilation of the worlds best lifters on Youtube does absolutely nothing for me and comparing it a the IPF Powerlifting Youtube promo film is crap!! Lets be straight up here...powerlifting comps are boring and Id be the first to admit that and having music and showgirls walking around in skimpy attire will do very little if you have a female lifter benching 65kg...you cant have all the big lights and big sounds for only the big boys and forget about the newbies and the joe average lifters...

The other side to this thread is we have a goup of BB'er gym lifters (some enhanced and some natural) that want to lift in powerlifting comp BUT would prefer to an untested/RAW/unlimited equipped fed (something like CAPO) where they can test their strength without the worry of being tested or even dare I say it, judged harshly because their squat was high or they benched the bar off their belly, hitched a deadlift...blah blah blah.

This is an issue that in my opinion shouldnt even be compared to the NZPF because if these BB'ers that want to test their strength every now and then when they are on a growth cycle and want to compete on a regular basis that maintains records etc...be bold and setup something with CAPO. Dont moan about it bitching that there is nothing to cater for you, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I see an organisation like the NZPF that I have been a proud member of for many years dragged through the mud like it is on this thread.

ESB and CBC are running "gym lift comps" and the same has been done around the country (I know of two gym comps in Tauranga that were done last year as well as in Rotorua in April). These comps also have official IPF refs from the NZPF helping out. There are opportunities out there to test your strength...its a matter of seeking them out. This forum has a great facility called the Competitor calender section so advertising one is easy to do.

No apologies for the rant...

...now wheres my cheeseburgers? All this typing has left me hungry

[Best Bench]

I've been reading over this thread for a while now and from what I can gather from the current posts is that there is alot of bitching going on about the way the NZPF run their fed/comps. The current and only fed in NZ is in the process of catering for RAW (that appears can't come soon enough for many on this forum) as well as equipped lifting; There are people in this organisation that have sacrificed so much of their own time (some for decades) to see the fed continue to run year after year without any reward and no recognition. These poeple are gold and in time, a new breed will step up and take control but for now, I ask many of you this...

If you are trully passionate about the sport and enjoy shifting tin, you'd put aside the "hear say" talk and just HTFU and join up.

I see alot of contributors to this thread have done very limited competitions (most at novice level) and hardly any national championships let alone internationals which leaves me thinking that if you havent been there and done it, how can you compare what it is you have actually know to what you have actually done? Watching a compilation of the worlds best lifters on Youtube does absolutely nothing for me and comparing it a the IPF Powerlifting Youtube promo film is crap!! Lets be straight up here...powerlifting comps are boring and Id be the first to admit that and having music and showgirls walking around in skimpy attire will do very little if you have a female lifter benching 65kg...you cant have all the big lights and big sounds for only the big boys and forget about the newbies and the joe average lifters...

The other side to this thread is we have a goup of BB'er gym lifters (some enhanced and some natural) that want to lift in powerlifting comp BUT would prefer to an untested/RAW/unlimited equipped fed (something like CAPO) where they can test their strength without the worry of being tested or even dare I say it, judged harshly because their squat was high or they benched the bar off their belly, hitched a deadlift...blah blah blah.

This is an issue that in my opinion shouldnt even be compared to the NZPF because if these BB'ers that want to test their strength every now and then when they are on a growth cycle and want to compete on a regular basis that maintains records etc...be bold and setup something with CAPO. Dont moan about it bitching that there is nothing to cater for you, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I see an organisation like the NZPF that I have been a proud member of for many years dragged through the mud like it is on this thread.

ESB and CBC are running "gym lift comps" and the same has been done around the country (I know of two gym comps in Tauranga that were done last year as well as in Rotorua in April). These comps also have official IPF refs from the NZPF helping out. There are opportunities out there to test your strength...its a matter of seeking them out. This forum has a great facility called the Competitor calender section so advertising one is easy to do.

No apologies for the rant...

...now wheres my cheeseburgers? All this typing has left me hungry

:clap:

[Optimass]

I've been reading over this thread for a while now and from what I can gather from the current posts is that there is alot of bitching going on about the way the NZPF run their fed/comps. The current and only fed in NZ is in the process of catering for RAW (that appears can't come soon enough for many on this forum) as well as equipped lifting; There are people in this organisation that have sacrificed so much of their own time (some for decades) to see the fed continue to run year after year without any reward and no recognition. These poeple are gold and in time, a new breed will step up and take control but for now, I ask many of you this...

If you are trully passionate about the sport and enjoy shifting tin, you'd put aside the "hear say" talk and just HTFU and join up.

I see alot of contributors to this thread have done very limited competitions (most at novice level) and hardly any national championships let alone internationals which leaves me thinking that if you havent been there and done it, how can you compare what it is you have actually know to what you have actually done? Watching a compilation of the worlds best lifters on Youtube does absolutely nothing for me and comparing it a the IPF Powerlifting Youtube promo film is crap!! Lets be straight up here...powerlifting comps are boring and Id be the first to admit that and having music and showgirls walking around in skimpy attire will do very little if you have a female lifter benching 65kg...you cant have all the big lights and big sounds for only the big boys and forget about the newbies and the joe average lifters...

The other side to this thread is we have a goup of BB'er gym lifters (some enhanced and some natural) that want to lift in powerlifting comp BUT would prefer to an untested/RAW/unlimited equipped fed (something like CAPO) where they can test their strength without the worry of being tested or even dare I say it, judged harshly because their squat was high or they benched the bar off their belly, hitched a deadlift...blah blah blah.

This is an issue that in my opinion shouldnt even be compared to the NZPF because if these BB'ers that want to test their strength every now and then when they are on a growth cycle and want to compete on a regular basis that maintains records etc...be bold and setup something with CAPO. Dont moan about it bitching that there is nothing to cater for you, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I see an organisation like the NZPF that I have been a proud member of for many years dragged through the mud like it is on this thread.

ESB and CBC are running "gym lift comps" and the same has been done around the country (I know of two gym comps in Tauranga that were done last year as well as in Rotorua in April). These comps also have official IPF refs from the NZPF helping out. There are opportunities out there to test your strength...its a matter of seeking them out. This forum has a great facility called the Competitor calender section so advertising one is easy to do.

No apologies for the rant...

...now wheres my cheeseburgers? All this typing has left me hungry

Firstly - I don't think people are discrediting anyone ... the topic was created to discuss the feasability of another federation and overall as you have stated there seems to be good support.

The other side to this thread is we have a goup of BB'er gym lifters (some enhanced and some natural) that want to lift in powerlifting comp BUT would prefer to an untested/RAW/unlimited equipped fed (something like CAPO) where they can test their strength without the worry of being tested or even dare I say it, judged harshly because their squat was high or they benched the bar off their belly, hitched a deadlift...blah blah blah.

This is an issue that in my opinion shouldnt even be compared to the NZPF because if these BB'ers that want to test their strength every now and then when they are on a growth cycle and want to compete on a regular basis that maintains records etc...be bold and setup something with CAPO. Dont moan about it bitching that there is nothing to cater for you, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I see an organisation like the NZPF that I have been a proud member of for many years dragged through the mud like it is on this thread.

A bit harsh really - if I had wanted to join I would have, that doesn't mean I can't present an opinion based on what I observe as a "novice" > but then I'm not even that because I havent and probably wont ever compete in a formal comp. that doesn't take away someones interest in the sport. I watch rugby, have an opinion like everyone else, but I don't play ....

I share a lot of respect for Powerlifters - probably more recently as Steak has been a great ambassidor and even after 18 years of training I'm learning quite a lot of useful things.

I must admit most (generalisation) bodybuilders have average technique when it comes to the squat - I'm living proof but it doesn't take anything away from the training itself which normally involves a lot more concentration of moves on one body part. And when done heavy it looks as impressive. IMO I'd rather be able to squat 180kg clean for 12 reps than 240 for 1 rep. To me thats way more impressive - the reality is you instinctively risk a lot by going through to full depth which is why its not promoted in modern day degrees.

In saying that > the angle I think is an opportunity is around a coalition between bbding and pling as I think it would be great for both sports.

Anyway - I'm going to stop now as I want to avoid being thrown in the dumpster when you come out for CBC lift :shifty: Like I say if you or any of the members in the NZPF have been offended by the discussion I think it's being taken out of context. Apologies ....

I'm off to do my 1/4 squats and cable crossovers :grin: