Smolov base cycle.

[Phedder]

Basically I'm sick of my crap squat. It has been steadily improving, but I'd like to give it a good nudge and I'm very interested by the 3 week Smolov base cycle for some punishment. What I'm after is some advice on how to incorporate some upper body work after the squats. If I decide to do it, I'd likely start it in 3 weeks time after I finish my current cycle of 5/3/1.

I was thinking along the lines of;

Monday: Squats 4x9, Weighted Chin ups 5x5

Wednesday: Squats 5x7, Bench press 3x5, 2x2

Friday: Squats 7x5, Chest supported BB row 4x8

Saturday: Squats 10x3, DB shoulder press 4x8

None of the upper body movements would be anywhere near failure or grinding, just something to provide a little stimulus.

I'm also considering extending the base cycle to 4 weeks and making it 3 sessions a week, so still doing all 12 sessions, just giving myself an extra week to complete them.

All opinions are welcome. Advice on the Smolov base cycle in general, and how to incorporate some upper body work would be greatly appreciated

[drizzt]

Good stuff, Phed! A good article to read - if you haven't already - is this one written by Pavel Tsatsouline.

Basically I'm sick of my crap squat. It has been steadily improving, but I'd like to give it a good nudge and I'm very interested by the 3 week Smolov base cycle for some punishment.

Awesome, that's why I begun Smolov - sick of a crap squat :nod:

I'd suggest that if you do it, do the 2 week intro cycle first (not sure if you were intending to by the sounds of your post). It gets you used to the frequency you're expected to squat, and the weight you'll need to hold on your back.

I'd also strongly suggest a training partner if you can find one. You'll find yourself struggling for reps here and there, and/or questioning why the hell you're doing such a stupidly hard program, but the fact someone else is doing this plan with you makes it more bearable. Not only that, you've got someone checking your form - I think mine has improved immensely from posting vids here for form advice, and having fellas like OB at the House giving me tips as I go along. I didn't think my form was that bad to start with... but you quickly find out if something is amiss :pfft:

I'd also suggest you work on any lingering injuries before you start. However, in saying that, any injuries/niggles I had or have had through the program, I've literally squatted through and they've come right. The only reps I missed were from a session where I physically couldn't force myself to squat it out (and that was in the intense cycle, after a couple of week's break from squats) so had to cut the session a few sets short. Just saying that this program is as much a mental challenge as it is a physical one :nod:

We also do Agile 8, and shoulder mobility drills before every session, which I think has helped.

What I'm after is some advice on how to incorporate some upper body work after the squats. If I decide to do it, I'd likely start it in 3 weeks time after I finish my current cycle of 5/3/1.

I was thinking along the lines of;

Monday: Squats 4x9, Weighted Chin ups 5x5

Wednesday: Squats 5x7, Bench press 3x5, 2x2

Friday: Squats 7x5, Chest supported BB row 4x8

Saturday: Squats 10x3, DB shoulder press 4x8

None of the upper body movements would be anywhere near failure or grinding, just something to provide a little stimulus.

I'd suggest this would be fine, but take your time. My T.P and I do what assistance we can following Smolov - including incorporating a low volume bench template alongside it - but take it as it comes. If we feel we've given absolutely everything to our squats, we'll throw the towel in there. We purposely did a Tues-Thurs-Sat-Sun split (instead of the traditional Mon-Wed etc), so that we could take our time with the final 2 sessions, and some assistance after them. If you can, an extra day or two for assistance work outside of the Smolov sessions IMHO could be a slightly better choice.

For assistance, we try to get a lot of upper back work in, and leg work like sled drags and calf raises to stretch out and get blood into these areas. We've even been doing core work after each session - which we were scared of at first as we thought it may affect our squatting - but this has been fine. Even when we've turned up with DOMS in the core.

What I'm trying to say is, if you can handle the extra work, then do it.

I'm also considering extending the base cycle to 4 weeks and making it 3 sessions a week, so still doing all 12 sessions, just giving myself an extra week to complete them.

All opinions are welcome. Advice on the Smolov base cycle in general, and how to incorporate some upper body work would be greatly appreciated

What is the extra week for?

I'd strongly suggest leaving the program as is. Part of the Smolov magic is the way it's laid out. Spreading the sessions amongst a greater time frame IMHO would screw around with the heart of the program, and that's getting you to do this work within the time frames assigned.

If you're worried about recovery, honestly, don't be. The first intro week (3 sessions in a row) is a tough start, but from there things feel great. I'd occasionally - and still do - have hip flare-ups, but these go away with warmup sets (of which we did a fair bit of volume on).

You'll also find that the first week of the base cycle may get tough, but it honestly gets easier from there. On paper it looks impossible, but the way your body adapts to the load is amazing.

Any more questions mate feel free to ask

[ThePman]

Echo what drizzt said. The same workloads that make this kind of training work so well can crush you if you don't go in for the long haul. I don't think it makes much sense to use this method over three days versus four. You're doing the work, so you might as well go all the way.

If you've never squatted hard for 3+ days a week, prepare for a new level of mental commitment. This isn't a bad thing but if you aren't ready or go in half-ass it will crush you.

[Phedder]

Perfect, the two people I was hoping would chime in are the first to do so :grin: Thanks for the replies. Drizzt, following your journal and seeing the progress you've been making is what initially sparked my interest :nod:

I'd suggest that if you do it, do the 2 week intro cycle first (not sure if you were intending to by the sounds of your post). It gets you used to the frequency you're expected to squat, and the weight you'll need to hold on your back.

I should have detailed what I plan to do before starting the base cycle :doh: I wasn't intending to do the 2 week intro, as from what I've read it is intended for those returning from a layoff? Instead I was intending to squat twice a week on 5/3/1, Tues after deadlifts and Friday is squat day. I also thought going in again on Sundays only to squat, stretch and do mobility drills would be a good idea. During the deload week I was going to deload all lifts except the squat, and continue with the Tues, Fri, and Sun squats. The following week I would begin the Base cycle.

Any issues seen with doing that to prepare for the base cycle?

I'd also strongly suggest a training partner if you can find one. You'll find yourself struggling for reps here and there, and/or questioning why the hell you're doing such a stupidly hard program, but the fact someone else is doing this plan with you makes it more bearable. Not only that, you've got someone checking your form - I think mine has improved immensely from posting vids here for form advice, and having fellas like OB at the House giving me tips as I go along. I didn't think my form was that bad to start with... but you quickly find out if something is amiss

I'd honestly doubt knowing anyone willing to give the program a try, although I agree it could be quite helpful. I'm confident (from my couch :pfft: ) of my ability to push myself through the sessions. I could ask a familiar face if they'd check my depth during a set, and I can always feel when my forms a little off, although I'm sure there's a million little things going on I can't quite notice.

I'd also suggest you work on any lingering injuries before you start. However, in saying that, any injuries/niggles I had or have had through the program, I've literally squatted through and they've come right. The only reps I missed were from a session where I physically couldn't force myself to squat it out (and that was in the intense cycle, after a couple of week's break from squats) so had to cut the session a few sets short. Just saying that this program is as much a mental challenge as it is a physical one

The last few weeks everything seems to have come right, I'm feeling stronger, more confident, and importantly, more consistent with my squatting. Which is why I think now is a good time for me to embark on something squat specific. I always thoroughly warm up my hips and shoulders before sessions, and have recently started overhead squatting with a light weight bar before and even between some sets which feels great. I'd say I average an hour a day of walking, and there's a great set of steps right by my flat I was planning on walking up a few times a day taking 3 or so at a time and stretching right out. The only thing really lacking is a foam roller, however I do use a ball on my glutes, groin, upper and lower back from time to time.

Any assistance work would ultimately depend on how I was feeling after the squats, but I'd ideally like to complete what I listed as a minimum. Any additional work above that would likely just include face pulls, rotator work, some push ups etc. Nothing at all strenuous, just beneficial if I can be assed doing it. I always warm down with body weight lunges and stretches after lower body sessions.

I'd strongly suggest leaving the program as is. Part of the Smolov magic is the way it's laid out. Spreading the sessions amongst a greater time frame IMHO would screw around with the heart of the program, and that's getting you to do this work within the time frames assigned.

It was just something I'd read from other discussions for people concerned with the workload. You're right though, the program works wonders as is and why try to fix what's not broken (as long as it doesn't break me :pfft: )

Thank you for your reply, very thorough and much appreciated :nod:

If you've never squatted hard for 3+ days a week, prepare for a new level of mental commitment. This isn't a bad thing but if you aren't ready or go in half-ass it will crush you.

I haven't yet. I intend to work up to this before starting the base cycle. I really like the idea of the immense challenge this will present, and most definitely will not be going in half assed.

Two more questions:

I don't have, and have never really used a belt or wraps. I can see this working two ways; Either it will eventually destroy my lower back and core, or it will work wonders for building them further. I'm hoping for the latter opinions?

When setting the max, I'm assuming it's wise to be somewhat conservative? I have done singles of 130kg a few times after my main work sets. I'd be confident of hitting 140kg with a proper build up, but have yet to do so. Would it be wise to properly test my squat to see where my true max is, or play it a bit safer and use 130kg to calculate for the cycle? My 3rd week of 5/3/1 has me set to do 130kg as my top set, which I'll go for as many reps as possible. I'm thinking 3 is on the cards, but we'll see when I get there and re-asses my max for the cycle as necessary. Using 130 as my max, the workload looks daunting, but achieveable.

[drizzt]

I should have detailed what I plan to do before starting the base cycle :doh: I wasn't intending to do the 2 week intro, as from what I've read it is intended for those returning from a layoff? Instead I was intending to squat twice a week on 5/3/1, Tues after deadlifts and Friday is squat day. I also thought going in again on Sundays only to squat, stretch and do mobility drills would be a good idea. During the deload week I was going to deload all lifts except the squat, and continue with the Tues, Fri, and Sun squats. The following week I would begin the Base cycle.

Any issues seen with doing that to prepare for the base cycle?

Hmmm, IMO it is a good intro to the workload regardless of how you had been squatting beforehand, but up to you... I hadn't had any sort of layoff prior to Smolov (was squatting twice a week beforehand as well) and in hindsight, am glad I did the intro because jumping straight into the 4x per week sessions would've been rough. Not only that, but the soreness we went through - and got over - in those first two weeks, meant that we didn't experience it so much through the base cycle.

But give it a go if you feel like skipping it mate, it may work just fine.

(edit - just re-read and realised what you meant by deload week) Your way of doing things sounds ok, all you can do is give it a shot. I just think the intro cycle is specifically designed to lead you into the base, so is the best way to prepare for it... but again, if you're confident, then go for it.

I'd honestly doubt knowing anyone willing to give the program a try, although I agree it could be quite helpful. I'm confident (from my couch :pfft: ) of my ability to push myself through the sessions. I could ask a familiar face if they'd check my depth during a set, and I can always feel when my forms a little off, although I'm sure there's a million little things going on I can't quite notice.

Sweet, good to hear mate, Viking Power from here is actually going through it solo so it certainly isn't impossible, just no doubt a partner would make it easier. At the least, I'd suggest maybe recording a vid here and there? Good to have the peeps here run a critical eye over things :nod:

The last few weeks everything seems to have come right, I'm feeling stronger, more confident, and importantly, more consistent with my squatting. Which is why I think now is a good time for me to embark on something squat specific. I always thoroughly warm up my hips and shoulders before sessions, and have recently started overhead squatting with a light weight bar before and even between some sets which feels great. I'd say I average an hour a day of walking, and there's a great set of steps right by my flat I was planning on walking up a few times a day taking 3 or so at a time and stretching right out. The only thing really lacking is a foam roller, however I do use a ball on my glutes, groin, upper and lower back from time to time.

Any assistance work would ultimately depend on how I was feeling after the squats, but I'd ideally like to complete what I listed as a minimum. Any additional work above that would likely just include face pulls, rotator work, some push ups etc. Nothing at all strenuous, just beneficial if I can be assed doing it. I always warm down with body weight lunges and stretches after lower body sessions.

Good stuff man, sounds like you're pretty well prepared here. The T.P and I don't bother with a foam roller, we just jumped straight into the PVC pipe Cheap and easy, although we just use what is available at the House.

Two more questions:

I don't have, and have never really used a belt or wraps. I can see this working two ways; Either it will eventually destroy my lower back and core, or it will work wonders for building them further. I'm hoping for the latter opinions?

Completely fine, more power to you. In fact I've read on a few different write-ups that the base cycle was meant to be done with belt only, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Belt can be a good training aid if you use it properly, personally I use the belt and wraps to get the best out of my squat for Powerlifting, but I'll warm up and go as far as I can without them. It's also handy to have these on reserve if you are having a tough day (I squatted the first couple of weeks beltless). Really depends on what your goals are, and if it's just raw strength, then stay raw IMHO :nod:

When setting the max, I'm assuming it's wise to be somewhat conservative? I have done singles of 130kg a few times after my main work sets. I'd be confident of hitting 140kg with a proper build up, but have yet to do so. Would it be wise to properly test my squat to see where my true max is, or play it a bit safer and use 130kg to calculate for the cycle? My 3rd week of 5/3/1 has me set to do 130kg as my top set, which I'll go for as many reps as possible. I'm thinking 3 is on the cards, but we'll see when I get there and re-asses my max for the cycle as necessary. Using 130 as my max, the workload looks daunting, but achieveable.

Yeah, I underestimated mine by about 5, maybe 10kg. And for the intense cycle, I tried my new max of 220.. but ended up revising that to 210 following the 1st week as the demand was just too tough.

I would do a test if you can fit one in, I did a fairly casual/unofficial one the week prior to the intro cycle.

I've also heard rumours that it can be a tough prog if your squat isn't yet at 300lb, but I don't see why it'd be any different.

Either way, good luck

[ThePman]

In my experience, the frequency is hard to adapt to regardless of the weight being used. You could be squatting 50% every day and if you haven't adapted all the muscles and connective tissues to that kind of loading, you'll still get all the "overtraining" symptoms (there are physiological reasons for this).

On the flip side once everything is adjusted to getting trained (more) often, it's not all that hard to slowly ratchet up the loading to insane amounts. Smolov's intended more as a temporary shock cycle, so some of that unconditioned state is expected, but doubling your frequency might hit you harder than you think.

Be prepared to hammer recovery -- do what it takes to get quality sleep every single night and don't be scared of ibuprofen. Good sleep and effective use of anti-inflamms are cornerstones of intentional overtraining.

[M.T]

Smolov is catching on in NZBB :grin: Great to see it's a tough SOB but you'll reap the rewards by the end of it.

Go hard man will follow with interest

[Phedder]

Thanks for the input guys

Found a reinforced cardboard tube that Ill try using to roll the ITBs and quads etc, see how long it lasts :pfft: I will try for a 'casual max' the week before I start the prog. Got a vid of 125kg today but can't seem to get it onto my laptop. Once I've figured how to get it across i'll post it up, but i'm mostly happy with what I can see. Upper back wasn't as tight as it can be, just another cue to remember. Increasing my squat frequency to 3 times a week for the next 3 weeks should hopefully help prepare me. I can see sleep being the single biggest issue with recovery, we'll see how it goes the next 3 weeks.

[mike27]

looks good!

got an excel sheet for the programme??

[drizzt]

First link from results.

[mike27]

yeah cheers thanks :doh:

i was thinking that as i hit submit

[startinfromscratch]

here you go bitch. made it myself 8)

full smolov.xls

[mike27]

looks good SFS! thanks

ill give it a whirl in 1-2 months :twisted: