Deca , Dbol only cycle?

[tomsammce]

sigh.... 250mgs per weeks is well above a natural level and a steroid novice who hasnt fryed their receptors like most of you who have who are disagreeing with 250mg/week will get very good muscle gains.

as for deca and dbol is fine to run and i know of a guy and have heard of others who have run deca only cycles... not everyone experiences the same side effects belive it or not deca by itself prob makes some guys sexdrive higher than normal as some guys who use testosterone by itself need cialis coz they cant get an erection on it.

if your gonna do ur deca dbol you may just want to run the dbol out for 10 or twelve weeks at a lower dose. test would probably be more ideal. but personally iv always like running a fast and slow acting ester/compound together.

I would run 250mg a week if I wasnt training, I agree it is well above normal test levels but I would ramp it up to suit the training and diet. But on most part I agree with you tom...cept with the deca dbol....like having dried weetbix without the milk and shortchanging yourself for minor benefits... :pfft:

u would run 250mg a week if you werent training? why would you do that... that doesnt make sense to me, if your not training why would you use gear

you would ramp up the dosage to suit training and diet? 250mg/week suits any training and diet you would use on a 500 or a 750 per week cycle... that doesnt make sense either.

[maassive]

sigh.... 250mgs per weeks is well above a natural level and a steroid novice who hasnt fryed their receptors like most of you who have who are disagreeing with 250mg/week will get very good muscle gains.

as for deca and dbol is fine to run and i know of a guy and have heard of others who have run deca only cycles... not everyone experiences the same side effects belive it or not deca by itself prob makes some guys sexdrive higher than normal as some guys who use testosterone by itself need cialis coz they cant get an erection on it.

if your gonna do ur deca dbol you may just want to run the dbol out for 10 or twelve weeks at a lower dose. test would probably be more ideal. but personally iv always like running a fast and slow acting ester/compound together.

Can you provide references for this 'fried' receptor idea? I had read elsewhere that it was a myth...

[tomsammce]

sigh.... 250mgs per weeks is well above a natural level and a steroid novice who hasnt fryed their receptors like most of you who have who are disagreeing with 250mg/week will get very good muscle gains.

as for deca and dbol is fine to run and i know of a guy and have heard of others who have run deca only cycles... not everyone experiences the same side effects belive it or not deca by itself prob makes some guys sexdrive higher than normal as some guys who use testosterone by itself need cialis coz they cant get an erection on it.

if your gonna do ur deca dbol you may just want to run the dbol out for 10 or twelve weeks at a lower dose. test would probably be more ideal. but personally iv always like running a fast and slow acting ester/compound together.

Can you provide references for this 'fried' receptor idea? I had read elsewhere that it was a myth...

no its my idea. and if its not your receptors that are fucked then its your head if you think you wont gain off 250mg/week... lol but lets not get away from the subject of the thread.

almost all of the people who are against that dose saying it doesnt work very well for growth or that its basically just a hormone replacement therapy dose i bet havnt actually run it ever... of course if you have just done 12 weeks on 1200mg/week of test then yes coming down to 250mg/week wont do a hell of alot but my post was about novice users carried on from someone asking why he is only using 250mg/week, which he should have just replied "because im a novice user and have someone sensible advising me".

so massive, what did you start on for your first cycle and why did you choose that dose over a lower or higher dose?

[Specter]

sigh.... 250mgs per weeks is well above a natural level and a steroid novice who hasnt fryed their receptors like most of you who have who are disagreeing with 250mg/week will get very good muscle gains.

as for deca and dbol is fine to run and i know of a guy and have heard of others who have run deca only cycles... not everyone experiences the same side effects belive it or not deca by itself prob makes some guys sexdrive higher than normal as some guys who use testosterone by itself need cialis coz they cant get an erection on it.

if your gonna do ur deca dbol you may just want to run the dbol out for 10 or twelve weeks at a lower dose. test would probably be more ideal. but personally iv always like running a fast and slow acting ester/compound together.

I would run 250mg a week if I wasnt training, I agree it is well above normal test levels but I would ramp it up to suit the training and diet. But on most part I agree with you tom...cept with the deca dbol....like having dried weetbix without the milk and shortchanging yourself for minor benefits... :pfft:

u would run 250mg a week if you werent training? why would you do that... that doesnt make sense to me, if your not training why would you use gear

you would ramp up the dosage to suit training and diet? 250mg/week suits any training and diet you would use on a 500 or a 750 per week cycle... that doesnt make sense either.

At the time I wasnt training I was working in a scrap metal yard gas cutting and lugging heavy as shit around with my hands and getting told off for breaching health and safety policies for not using the forklift to lift shit etc ..I ran that for 12 weeks because I was working away in a shithole of a town that had no real gym....I didnt consider it training even though I was lifitng heavy shit and practicing lifting techniques and getting weird looks from the other workers as a way to ease my mind from doing no gym training(POMS).

My First Test E cycle I ran at 500mg for 16 weeks and was working for a outfit setting up stages/concerts etc on top of gym training....and that fucking job sucked..only cause my co workers werent pulling their weight because they couldnt carry 80kg steel deck up a flight of stairs by themselves and I was pretty much carrying them! I had already spoken and gotten advice before i started that cycle, so I amped it up knowing what I was in for due to the life of my job and gym training at that time. I dont agree 250mg suits any training and diet that a 500mg or 750mg would do..

[Specter]

sigh.... 250mgs per weeks is well above a natural level and a steroid novice who hasnt fryed their receptors like most of you who have who are disagreeing with 250mg/week will get very good muscle gains.

as for deca and dbol is fine to run and i know of a guy and have heard of others who have run deca only cycles... not everyone experiences the same side effects belive it or not deca by itself prob makes some guys sexdrive higher than normal as some guys who use testosterone by itself need cialis coz they cant get an erection on it.

if your gonna do ur deca dbol you may just want to run the dbol out for 10 or twelve weeks at a lower dose. test would probably be more ideal. but personally iv always like running a fast and slow acting ester/compound together.

Can you provide references for this 'fried' receptor idea? I had read elsewhere that it was a myth...

no its my idea. and if its not your receptors that are fucked then its your head if you think you wont gain off 250mg/week... lol but lets not get away from the subject of the thread.

almost all of the people who are against that dose saying it doesnt work very well for growth or that its basically just a hormone replacement therapy dose i bet havnt actually run it ever... of course if you have just done 12 weeks on 1200mg/week of test then yes coming down to 250mg/week wont do a hell of alot but my post was about novice users carried on from someone asking why he is only using 250mg/week, which he should have just replied "because im a novice user and have someone sensible advising me".

so massive, what did you start on for your first cycle and why did you choose that dose over a lower or higher dose?

You know anyone with fried receptors?

[jimjim83]

sigh.... 250mgs per weeks is well above a natural level and a steroid novice who hasnt fryed their receptors like most of you who have who are disagreeing with 250mg/week will get very good muscle gains.

as for deca and dbol is fine to run and i know of a guy and have heard of others who have run deca only cycles... not everyone experiences the same side effects belive it or not deca by itself prob makes some guys sexdrive higher than normal as some guys who use testosterone by itself need cialis coz they cant get an erection on it.

if your gonna do ur deca dbol you may just want to run the dbol out for 10 or twelve weeks at a lower dose. test would probably be more ideal. but personally iv always like running a fast and slow acting ester/compound together.

I would run 250mg a week if I wasnt training, I agree it is well above normal test levels but I would ramp it up to suit the training and diet. But on most part I agree with you tom...cept with the deca dbol....like having dried weetbix without the milk and shortchanging yourself for minor benefits... :pfft:

You would run 250 when your not training, Why would you do this?

500mgs is too much for a first cycle IMO. 250 is heaps. if you have diet training and sleep all tied in properly then a sniff of gear is enough for good results, especially if your running an oral as well

Too many people advocte big amounts. Start low and increase in minimally as you become more advanced.

The only people who say more is better are dealers.

[Specter]

sigh.... 250mgs per weeks is well above a natural level and a steroid novice who hasnt fryed their receptors like most of you who have who are disagreeing with 250mg/week will get very good muscle gains.

as for deca and dbol is fine to run and i know of a guy and have heard of others who have run deca only cycles... not everyone experiences the same side effects belive it or not deca by itself prob makes some guys sexdrive higher than normal as some guys who use testosterone by itself need cialis coz they cant get an erection on it.

if your gonna do ur deca dbol you may just want to run the dbol out for 10 or twelve weeks at a lower dose. test would probably be more ideal. but personally iv always like running a fast and slow acting ester/compound together.

I would run 250mg a week if I wasnt training, I agree it is well above normal test levels but I would ramp it up to suit the training and diet. But on most part I agree with you tom...cept with the deca dbol....like having dried weetbix without the milk and shortchanging yourself for minor benefits... :pfft:

You would run 250 when your not training, Why would you do this?

500mgs is too much for a first cycle IMO. 250 is heaps. if you have diet training and sleep all tied in properly then a sniff of gear is enough for good results, especially if your running an oral as well

Too many people advocte big amounts. Start low and increase in minimally as you become more advanced.

The only people who say more is better are dealers.

Not to go to far off track but, yeah..too many people advocate big amounts, but too many people advocate the novice/first timers amount in which I believe is too cautious and a myth at some points. And your last comment(The only people who say more is better are dealers!) cracked me up! Besides dealing in Steroids is BAD, especially when there is better shit out there to deal to make a bigger and better profit!

[Riccardo]

jim jim/tom: What would you advocate as a good first time dosage then? 250mg/week? If you don't mind me asking Tom what was your first cycle?

[jimjim83]

jim jim/tom: What would you advocate as a good first time dosage then? 250mg/week? If you don't mind me asking Tom what was your first cycle?

Like I said if your diet training and sleep is good then 250mg would be plenty for a first cycle.

If its your first Id do it without orals so if you decide to take orals on a later cycle you will have a better knowlege of the feeling they give you.

If who you are buying them for is advocating taking more just sit back and think who is benifit more financially you or them.

250mgs is plenty more than you produce so you will definatly notice the difference.

Less is more.

[tomsammce]

jim jim/tom: What would you advocate as a good first time dosage then? 250mg/week? If you don't mind me asking Tom what was your first cycle?

yeah 250 per week.

my first cycle was 8 weeks of sustanon250

weeks 1,2,3 were 250mg/week

weeks 4,5 were 500mg/week

weeks 6,7,8 were 250mg/week.

i was 76kg before i started, after 8 weeks i was 84kg with a lower bodyfat than before i started, or maybe it just looked lower since in had more muscle but was definitly no body fat gained. my natural test levels wouldnt have been low before i started my cycle as i had already been gaining muscle pretty quickly naturally i have pics of myself in one of the old 2guns journals beofore i touched gear... which would disprove anyone who trys to say i had low test levels before i started and that is why i got those results off that dosing.

[jimjim83]

jim jim/tom: What would you advocate as a good first time dosage then? 250mg/week? If you don't mind me asking Tom what was your first cycle?

yeah 250 per week.

my first cycle was 8 weeks of sustanon250

weeks 1,2,3 were 250mg/week

weeks 4,5 were 500mg/week

weeks 6,7,8 were 250mg/week.

i was 76kg before i started, after 8 weeks i was 84kg with a lower bodyfat than before i started, or maybe it just looked lower since in had more muscle but was definitly no body fat gained. my natural test levels wouldnt have been low before i started my cycle as i had already been gaining muscle pretty quickly naturally i have pics of myself in one of the old 2guns journals beofore i touched gear... which would disprove anyone who trys to say i had low test levels before i started and that is why i got those results off that dosing.

Same as me but I tappered the last couple of weeks down to 125. Nice and simple with good results.

[tomsammce]

Can you provide references for this 'fried' receptor idea? I had read elsewhere that it was a myth...

no its my idea. and if its not your receptors that are fucked then its your head if you think you wont gain off 250mg/week... lol but lets not get away from the subject of the thread.

almost all of the people who are against that dose saying it doesnt work very well for growth or that its basically just a hormone replacement therapy dose i bet havnt actually run it ever... of course if you have just done 12 weeks on 1200mg/week of test then yes coming down to 250mg/week wont do a hell of alot but my post was about novice users carried on from someone asking why he is only using 250mg/week, which he should have just replied "because im a novice user and have someone sensible advising me".

so massive, what did you start on for your first cycle and why did you choose that dose over a lower or higher dose?

You know anyone with fried receptors?

well fried receptors could be interpreted a few ways. i do believe you build up a tolerance this is why people usually gain the most off their first cycle, i always found the longer i was on for the slower my gains became. a couple of years ago i had that retarded bodybuilder mentality bro that more was better and the more i took and longer i took it for the bigger i would get, once i went thru some hard days and ran out of money and was forced to take a break from gear i did shrink, when i got my shit sorted i started back up my gains came back so fast with the muscle memory and then exceeded what they were before on a third of the dose. its just from my experience that i have coem to the conclusion that receptors do get tired and worn out and after a break they are good to go again. why do u think guys end up working their dosages up to 3grams per week.... because 1gram wasnt working anymore so they went to 2 and then 3

[tomsammce]

I would run 250mg a week if I wasnt training, I agree it is well above normal test levels but I would ramp it up to suit the training and diet. But on most part I agree with you tom...cept with the deca dbol....like having dried weetbix without the milk and shortchanging yourself for minor benefits... :pfft:

u would run 250mg a week if you werent training? why would you do that... that doesnt make sense to me, if your not training why would you use gear

you would ramp up the dosage to suit training and diet? 250mg/week suits any training and diet you would use on a 500 or a 750 per week cycle... that doesnt make sense either.

I dont agree 250mg suits any training and diet that a 500mg or 750mg would do..

why not? like i said that doesnt make sense bro... so u would have a different approach to your nutrition and training with a 250mg/week dose compared to a 500mg/week dose?

[Riccardo]

Sweet. Cheers for that boys!

[pyro]

Thought I would link this since it is pretty similar in regards to what you guys are on about. Research done on a group of 61, 18–35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk.

This page just breaks down the results for 300mg vs 600mg, the thread also has the link to the original article if you can be bothered reading it all.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabo ... erone.html

[jimjim83]

Thought I would link this since it is pretty similar in regards to what you guys are on about. Research done on a group of 61, 18–35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk.

This page just breaks down the results for 300mg vs 600mg, the thread also has the link to the original article if you can be bothered reading it all.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabo ... erone.html

Boring read. 250mg is fine for a first cycle. The article I got that from is real life personal experiance.

600mg is far to much. Maybe to peak in the middle of a 12-15 week cycle but 250mgs all the way through will get results.

Dont forget its hormones your fucking with not creatine.

Start low and work your way up. Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint.

[maassive]

Thought I would link this since it is pretty similar in regards to what you guys are on about. Research done on a group of 61, 18–35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk.

This page just breaks down the results for 300mg vs 600mg, the thread also has the link to the original article if you can be bothered reading it all.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabo ... erone.html

Awesome article. Repped.

[tomsammce]

i know a guy on here who i wont name, but he used 250mg/week for a long time a few cycles and then moved up to 500 and so on.... now thats smart! u know, you get all you can out of each dosage before you increase it. i increased my doses way to fast missed out on a whole heap of growth and had huge holes in my pockets 18 months into it. if i could go back in time i would do alot differently, but i cant so f*ck it work with what i got.

[pyro]

Thought I would link this since it is pretty similar in regards to what you guys are on about. Research done on a group of 61, 18–35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk.

This page just breaks down the results for 300mg vs 600mg, the thread also has the link to the original article if you can be bothered reading it all.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabo ... erone.html

Boring read. 250mg is fine for a first cycle. The article I got that from is real life personal experiance.

600mg is far to much. Maybe to peak in the middle of a 12-15 week cycle but 250mgs all the way through will get results.

Dont forget its hormones your fucking with not creatine.

Start low and work your way up. Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint.

Yea was a boring as f*ck read, I just took in the main points of the results showing that 300mg vs 600mg there was actually little difference in growth, which I found interesting.

[Chemo]

i know a guy on here who i wont name, but he used 250mg/week for a long time a few cycles and then moved up to 500 and so on.... now thats smart! u know, you get all you can out of each dosage before you increase it. i increased my doses way to fast missed out on a whole heap of growth and had huge holes in my pockets 18 months into it. if i could go back in time i would do alot differently, but i cant so f*ck it work with what i got.

If I know who the dude is then yeah, knowing that I would've loved to have done a 20 week cycle or more at 250 (maybe with dbol) to begin with. It is good advices from a guy who walks the walk.

But first time I naturally thought more was better. \:D/ \:D/

Is the difference starting at 250 or 500 that big of an issue? Or how you progress from that point

[tomsammce]

i know a guy on here who i wont name, but he used 250mg/week for a long time a few cycles and then moved up to 500 and so on.... now thats smart! u know, you get all you can out of each dosage before you increase it. i increased my doses way to fast missed out on a whole heap of growth and had huge holes in my pockets 18 months into it. if i could go back in time i would do alot differently, but i cant so f*ck it work with what i got.

If I know who the dude is then yeah, knowing that I would've loved to have done a 20 week cycle or more at 250 (maybe with dbol) to begin with. It is good advices from a guy who walks the walk.

But first time I naturally thought more was better. \:D/ \:D/

Is the difference starting at 250 or 500 that big of an issue? Or how you progress from that point

good point, you are right in it doesnt really matter 250 or 500 but yeah probably more importanly how one progresses in dosage after wards.... my 2nd cycle was 450mg test/week, 250mg deca/week for 8 weeks then i think i started to up it even more and more and before i knew it i was running 1=1.5 grams of gear per week... its expensive, stupid and unessercery... if someone wants to do it thats cool but im just saying for me and from my own experience, from what in have seen others achieve on much less and also from what im achieving now on amounts im using now which are alot less, there is not much difference.

but at end of the day everyones gotta make their own mistakes and walk their own path eh.

[olympia]

Thanks guys . Im just going to stick with the 250mg per week at this stage and see how i progress. Im only 31 and have plenty of time to up doses later on. While i would like to get most from a cycle im not willing to do at the cost of sacrificing growth from possible future cycles. Will do a mini cycle log on completion to let yas know the results. Each to their own way and thanks for all the replys.

[Sifo-Dyas]

This thread is rolling with a heap of information and controversy.

Deca Dbol only cycles with no injectable test can be surprisingly effective if done correctly. this could be due to some synergy between the two compounds. the dbol is a very strong testosterone derivative and the Deca is a nortestosterone derivative so there is receptor specific testosterone in these cycles even if it is not the bioidentical testosterone.

Personally I have not ever run deca and Dbol together in any cycle with or without test but I know many that have.

The well discussed side effects of "Deca dick" and "Gyno" should only be taken as a warning. People who are not overly sensitive to estrogen, likely will not notice any negative side effects. I do not suffer any side effects from Deca even at high doses, and with dbol I only need very mild estrogen support like Clomid. this is not because Dbol aromatises any more than other gear it just happens to aromatise into the type of estrogen that is renowned for causing gyno.

as for 1st cycle courses go, I have been quoted on this thread stating that I will cruise on close to 250mg per week and it is not much more than natural test levels...Now I need to clarify this. When you account for the ester weight of testosterone Enanthate and take 250mg, you will end up around 200mg of actual testosterone migrating to the blood stream over a ten day active life so around 20mg/day which is nearly twice as much as a normal healthy male.

Where the numbers change is due ti training age, mass and receptors. Guys with more mass and a higher enhanced training age have many times more receptors than someone who is doing there 1st cycle. 250mg per week returns me a testosterone level of 49 when the top end of natural is 38. A first timer may return a teat level of 70+ from 250mg/week. Test readings are based on the amount of free testosterone that is not bound with a receptor. the more mass you have, the more receptors you have and the less unbound testosterone will be found in your blood test.

250mg/week of testosterone is a perfect amount for a first cycle. I started on this and over 10 years made my way up to the advanced doses where you don't feel sick on 2000mg/week.

Tom hit it on the head. Start low because if you start high you can never go back but start low and you can always slowly increase it to make sure you stay in the zone

[maassive]

This thread is rolling with a heap of information and controversy.

Deca Dbol only cycles with no injectable test can be surprisingly effective if done correctly. this could be due to some synergy between the two compounds. the dbol is a very strong testosterone derivative and the Deca is a nortestosterone derivative so there is receptor specific testosterone in these cycles even if it is not the bioidentical testosterone.

Personally I have not ever run deca and Dbol together in any cycle with or without test but I know many that have.

The well discussed side effects of "Deca dick" and "Gyno" should only be taken as a warning. People who are not overly sensitive to estrogen, likely will not notice any negative side effects. I do not suffer any side effects from Deca even at high doses, and with dbol I only need very mild estrogen support like Clomid. this is not because Dbol aromatises any more than other gear it just happens to aromatise into the type of estrogen that is renowned for causing gyno.

as for 1st cycle courses go, I have been quoted on this thread stating that I will cruise on close to 250mg per week and it is not much more than natural test levels...Now I need to clarify this. When you account for the ester weight of testosterone Enanthate and take 250mg, you will end up around 200mg of actual testosterone migrating to the blood stream over a ten day active life so around 20mg/day which is nearly twice as much as a normal healthy male.

Where the numbers change is due ti training age, mass and receptors. Guys with more mass and a higher enhanced training age have many times more receptors than someone who is doing there 1st cycle. 250mg per week returns me a testosterone level of 49 when the top end of natural is 38. A first timer may return a teat level of 70+ from 250mg/week. Test readings are based on the amount of free testosterone that is not bound with a receptor. the more mass you have, the more receptors you have and the less unbound testosterone will be found in your blood test.

250mg/week of testosterone is a perfect amount for a first cycle. I started on this and over 10 years made my way up to the advanced doses where you don't feel sick on 2000mg/week.

Tom hit it on the head. Start low because if you start high you can never go back but start low and you can always slowly increase it to make sure you stay in the zone

Good post man.

What do you mean by 'feeling sick' at over 2g? I haven't heard of feeling sick from test before...

[tomsammce]

lethargic, cant be fucked, headaches, flu like symptoms bro... these are some of the 'feel sick' side effects a user can get from high doses of test more common in guys who jump the gun and dont build up their so called tolerance... for example if you went from 750mg test pw to 2g test pw you may experieince these and feel sick