If It Fits Your Macros

[ThePman]

How much junk food do you think you'll be able to eat every day while ensuring essential protein and fat intake as well as eating in a deficit?

For most people it won't be very much at all. Most of the comparisons in this thread are being made between extremes that won't ever happen in reality.

[startinfromscratch]

i think alot of peole are confusing the terms clean/dirty food with the calorific density of food.

ie the difference between a bigmac and the equivalent calories in chicken and kumara...........

[JOSEF RAKICH]

so in principle, you can fit a cheat meal in every day, requiring you have a good diet for other meals to get the required vits n mins...and take the excess calories off other meals...seems realtively straight foward...so going back to body compisiton, if I had 2-3 maccas meals per day with a good quality mutli this wouldnt effect my body comp, but it means I will have less energy in gym which would overall effect my body comp no?

If you fit a so called cheat meal into your daily macros split of protein/carbs/fats then technically its not even a cheat meal..

For example you have a daily macros target of:

280g protein, 330g carbs and 65g fat.

You can hit these numbers through any food choices you want, order a meal from McDonalds lets just say a seared chicken deluxe burger and large fries the macros for that is (off the top of my head) something like 35g protein, 85g carbs, 35g fat. Therefore you can eat this and it fits into your daily macros split as long as your other food you eat during the day dosent make you exceed your desired macros of 280g protein, 330g carbs and 65g fat.

I eat McDonalds and homemade pizza everyday and it makes no difference at all because i hit my daily macros target perfectly every day. 300g protein, 330g carbs and 70g fat.

Its just that foods like McDonalds and KFC etc usually have phaggoty macros splits so you cant eat it too much in one day because it just wont fit into your "daily macros" but if you can fit it in, by all means go for it. Its just that most of these food choices have high fat content, and if you have a daily fat intake target of 70g then you have to have your other meals low in fat just so you dont go over your "desired" macros target.

If goodie goodie gum dropice cream is your favourite food, you can eat it every day just FIT IT INTO YOUR DAILY MACROS and it wont make no difference.

[Cameron_R]

isn't this 'if it fits in your daily macros' thing just another way of saying Jenny Craig points system?

[Chemo]

Avena Sativa from Oats, frees up testosterone by binding to HSBG (or doing something to HSBG)

Do you mean SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin)? Or do I need to look into this HSBG stuff :shifty:

Google BGHS.

Or whas it GSHB?

Lol fixed .... soz

Yeah was meaning SHBG, i claim temporary dyslexia. Durp

Um yeah, I totally see what you mean, you can successfully maintain a good physique if you cheat a little. But why settle for that when you can aim for optimal, some fast foods have soooo much shit in them (they literally have a tolerance level for poo) , and rumored to have endocrine distruptors in them (pesticides)

Pretty shitty waffle on link here, but I wouldn't doubt/risk it.

http://crossculturalendocrinology.blogspot.com/2010/11/endocrine-disrupting-chemicals-in-food.html

I wouldn't even suggest it as a day to day thing unless someone was enhanced and it wouldn't make a difference. I think its cool as a PT you can get your clients results and still let them enjoy some maccas or kfry, who wouldn't love that in their plan, dangerous grounds though.

I always think when eating "clean" foods, im getting an advantage, or bringing what I do closer to optimal.

Not saying I am though low...my diet is farrrr from optimal lol, pizza n coke for lyfes

RE: Meal timing, what does everyone think about IF?

[ThePman]

No such thing as optimal when dealing with two complex chaotic systems. Biology and food intake don't lend themselves much to precision.

[poos_n_wees]

This method of counting cals/fitting macros saves my sanity when dieting. I'll eat pretty clean for the majority of the day, but if cravings pop up and I feel like having icecream, a couple of biscuits or a slice of cake or whatever, I'd work it into my macros.

Progress still continues, sanity maintained.

[maassive]

so the vitamins and minerals of a brocolli have no benefit re body compisiton compared to eating 15 cookies per day to a whole broccoli? as long as they have the same number of calories? seems odd

Micros dont have an effect on body comp no.. As long as calories are = and macros are spot on there will be no difference in body composition, as for micros vitamins/minerals etc, yes with most "junk" food they have low amounts but as long as you are taking a decent multi, or eating other high quality foods with good vitamins/minerals in other meals to get in your anti-oxidants etc, you will be fine fit and healthy.

bullshit.

[maassive]

Though I do in fact agree with JR on the whole, he is again over simplifying things.

[deepmen15]

I always think when eating "clean" foods, im getting an advantage, or bringing what I do closer to optimal.

:nod:

Its harder to fit your daily p/c/f % by eating mac/KFC.... Cheat meals are fine... But the only way I can stay focused is by doing the whole thing right eat clean..sleep 8 hrs... train hard....

Also there is diff in how your body copes with low GI / high GI food or saturated fat /MCT/DAG... IIFYM = Fact or not a fact ... I dont care...eating cleans helps me stay focused(Phycologically )... and it doesnt hurt to play safe and stick with the tested principle...

[Loochi]

Lol.

I 100% agree with Josef... It's true...

Look if you want to stick to only eating brown rice and broccoli or chicken and potato then that's fine. Go all out, but I'd rather have moderation and what ever I want so long as it fits my cals.

Sure, don't be a fucking dick head about it and make your whole diet mcdonalds or candy, but if it fits your macros and you want it, why the f*ck not? :doh:

People always restrict themselves from bread during a diet phase? Why is this? I love that shit, and sometimes when I don't feel like having my post workout carbs that I normally have, I'd take enough red licorice to replace it and satisfy my cravings..

Whatever happened to moderation? Be strict with your diet but don't restrict yourself from foods...

To the above poster, it's hard but if you have a calculator and a measuring scale then it shouldn't be.

[Darkmanx]

I agree with the part that a cheat meal everyday will be fine and bare in mind keep it in moderation and can be part of you macros, not over and above. Hell i do that to. I love my lollies. But as i understand what JR is saying is that you can eat only crap food all day long as long as you dont go over or under what is suppose to be your macros and will have no effect on your body comp and only take a vitamin to make up for lost minerals. Anyway thats how i understand it. JR can hopefully clear it up.

I think this is confusing alot of people and as maasive said he is over complicating things.

[ThePman]

I don't see how it's hard or complicated at all.

90kg/198lb guy will need let's say 12 cals/lb as a starting point for a calorie deficit so 198 x10 = ~2400 calories

Protein at 1g/lb so ~200g or 800 cals

Fat at 30% of total calories, so 720 or 80g

What's left you fill in with carbs, 2400 - (800+720) = 880 cals or 220g

So given

2400 cals coming from

200g protein

220g carbs

80g fat

How many Big Macs and candy bars are you going to have room for? Calorie and macro targets limit your food intake too much to splurge; I think people are getting the idea of all-day-long junk festivals (i.e., overeating) when that couldn't be further from reality.

[trainlikeafreak]

I don't see how it's hard or complicated at all.

90kg/198lb guy will need let's say 12 cals/lb as a starting point for a calorie deficit so 198 x10 = ~2400 calories

Protein at 1g/lb so ~200g or 800 cals

Fat at 30% of total calories, so 720 or 80g

What's left you fill in with carbs, 2400 - (800+720) = 880 cals or 220g

So given

2400 cals coming from

200g protein

220g carbs

80g fat

How many Big Macs and candy bars are you going to have room for? Calorie and macro targets limit your food intake too much to splurge; I think people are getting the idea of all-day-long junk festivals (i.e., overeating) when that couldn't be further from reality.

too right mate.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Lol.

I 100% agree with Josef... It's true...

Look if you want to stick to only eating brown rice and broccoli or chicken and potato then that's fine. Go all out, but I'd rather have moderation and what ever I want so long as it fits my cals.

Sure, don't be a fucking dick head about it and make your whole diet mcdonalds or candy, but if it fits your macros and you want it, why the f*ck not? :doh:

People always restrict themselves from bread during a diet phase? Why is this? I love that shit, and sometimes when I don't feel like having my post workout carbs that I normally have, I'd take enough red licorice to replace it and satisfy my cravings..

Whatever happened to moderation? Be strict with your diet but don't restrict yourself from foods...

To the above poster, it's hard but if you have a calculator and a measuring scale then it shouldn't be.

Exctally this.

[tomsammce]

stupidity gone crazy...

[train hard]

i cant help but notice the obvious but the truth is in the results and seeing JR and loochi are probably some of the most ripped guys on this forum it proves that it is possible you just gota be smart with your numbers and know where to draw the line which they do and hey i have seen some depressed as guys and girls on really strict boiled chicken and brocoli diets and they just end up going on massive binges because they cant handle it and then start telling themselves they will make up for it by doing 2 hours cardio the next day lol vicious cycle! that fuks with your mind and body

[tomsammce]

i cant help but notice the obvious but the truth is in the results and seeing JR and loochi are probably some of the most ripped guys on this forum it proves that it is possible you just gota be smart with your numbers and know where to draw the line which they do and hey i have seen some depressed as guys and girls on really strict boiled chicken and brocoli diets and they just end up going on massive binges because they cant handle it and then start telling themselves they will make up for it by doing 2 hours cardio the next day lol vicious cycle! that fuks with your mind and body

look how much they weigh bro... f*ck all. they cant put on bodyfat as easily as most people, thats cool and all but i would like to see somone at 90 or 100kg ripped following this suite... i dont think it works, its unhealthy and its fuken stupid, fast foods etc doesnt build muscle unless you on drugs... i dont wanna take this debate down the drug path but it has to be metioned as it would also play a big part in keeping a junk food eating person lean

[lemon]

i cant help but notice the obvious but the truth is in the results and seeing JR and loochi are probably some of the most ripped guys on this forum it proves that it is possible you just gota be smart with your numbers and know where to draw the line which they do and hey i have seen some depressed as guys and girls on really strict boiled chicken and brocoli diets and they just end up going on massive binges because they cant handle it and then start telling themselves they will make up for it by doing 2 hours cardio the next day lol vicious cycle! that fuks with your mind and body

look how much they weigh bro... f*ck all. they cant put on bodyfat as easily as most people, thats cool and all but i would like to see somone at 90 or 100kg ripped following this suite... i dont think it works, its unhealthy and its fuken stupid, fast foods etc doesnt build muscle unless you on drugs... i dont wanna take this debate down the drug path but it has to be metioned as it would also play a big part in keeping a junk food eating person lean

You do have to remember, they're talking about a calorie deficit, so losing weight/ripping up. Id say if JR was planning on gaining mass it would be a different story.

[Pseudonym]

I think it would actually be easier for a ripped 90-100kg guy to follow this theory, Tom. They'd obviously have higher maintenance calories, so it would be even easier to fit the odd Big Mac into their meal plan.

Yes, in a perfect world, we'd all eat brown rice with chicken breast and flax seed oil. But that's for general health reasons - I prefer to stick to unprocessed foods, rather than stuff pumped with preservatives. Purely in terms of the macros, I don't think the junk food would make a huge difference. I'm not sure about doing it every day though, if that's what JR does.

It's also worth being smart about how you do it. For instance, my pre-competition jam-on-toast was my post-workout meal, so the insulin spike from the sugar was actually useful. And there's nothing like thinking about your competitors forcing down raw broccoli and boiled chicken breast while you're enjoying a chocolate biscuit. Definitely alleviates the dieting blues! :pfft:

[Monkey Man]

Anyway, what you say is interesting. I didn't know it was called IIFYM, but I dieted for my first competition eating jam on toast and chocolate biscuits. Oh, and no cardio till two weeks out. It was awesome! (Although I have to say subsequent attempts at the same diet didn't produce anywhere near the same result.)

He may not thank me for dragging him into this debate, but doesn't Loochi use the same principle?

You're not the only one. Back when I prepped figure girls, I had the same rule about putting calories and macro targets above all else. If anything I found that not being so obsessive over food types made it easier for a lot of them to stick to a calorie target; they weren't freaking out over having a cookie or a piece of chocolate, and having a weekly cheat meal/day would usually trigger some kind of 'visual progress'.

I think there's a lot to be said for developing a healthy relationship with food as opposed to the near eating disorder that physique competitors are prone to develop.

You can't completely ignore macros -- things like protein and essential fats have to be there -- and calorie balance must be spot on but once the rest is in place, I've just never seen the "clean" thing matter too much. Once a daily deficit is in place and protein/fat is ensured, the remainder of the diet can be brown rice or it can be ice cream and there won't really be a difference in outcome. IMO the clean-food strategy works because it's harder to overeat on chicken and broccoli, and for the same reasons you'll tend to cover the basic nutrients, but I don't think it's necessary.

So, correct me if im wrong, but once you get your "basic" proteins, fats and "good" carbs for the day (meaning once you get to your maintenance calories?) the other 500 or so calories can be of whatever you want, because you already have your, for example "200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat and 300 grams of carbs"? - Basics for muscle growth... Right?

[Dr Squat]

I must admit I haven't read this entire thread. I don't feel qualified to comment on the "science" that is being thrown around.

The question I do have would be the impact on the body to perform. Eating processed food that possibly has a higher sodium content isn't a great way to prepare the body for intense exercise. Once again I am a bit of a thick prick and may have missed the point? Or doesn't this matter either. I know from my sample size of 1 (being me), that I perform at a higher level when I am eating clean. Interested in what people think about this.

[lemon]

@Josef Rakich Where do I start with this one, because obviously its not as clear as black and white and there are always exceptions to the rule, so it’s tricky to present a really clear argument without contradictions and that’s why some people would argue to the contrary.

let me start with a few questions...

- do you think a meat patty (comprised of ‘average quality’ meat protein, and wheat protein) cooked (seared) and in the process denatured compares to ‘easily digestible’ proteins from a ‘good quality’ whey protein isolate powder, or a raw unaltered egg?

- do you think your body (your liver, your blood glucose levels, your muscles and your fat stores) treat 100 grams of low GI brown rice (high in long polymer carbon chains ‘complex carbohydrates’) the same as 20 teaspoons of refined white sugar?

- do you think that modern nutritional science is so incredibly accurate that we have not only identified every nutrient, vitamin, antioxidant and phytonutrient present in the fruits, vegetables, seeds, etc that we don’t have to eat ‘healthy’ ‘clean’ foods and simply popping a few pills and eating processed, chlorinated shit will keep our body in good balance as long as 1 + 1 = 2 when calculating our Macro’s.

[Calvin]

Rakich is one body type. It doesnt make him a guru on all body types.

[ThePman]

So, correct me if im wrong, but once you get your "basic" proteins, fats and "good" carbs for the day (meaning once you get to your maintenance calories?) the other 500 or so calories can be of whatever you want, because you already have your, for example "200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat and 300 grams of carbs"? - Basics for muscle growth... Right?

Pretty much. What Rakich, Loochi etc. are saying is that most of your meals are going to be 'quality' protein/fat/carb sources, but once those essentials are in place it's not going to kill you to have 'bad' foods to fill in what's left (which won't be much).

Everybody else seems to take that as "eat nothing but cheeseburgers and donuts all day". Nobody's saying you don't have to cover the essentials, but the entire "clean food" thing is overstated as an influence in fat loss and leanness once those basics are handled.