If It Fits Your Macros

[JOSEF RAKICH]

[MOD EDIT: Topic split from My TKD]

Clean diet as in wash your food before you eat it?

There is no "clean" or "dirty" foods, calories are calories.

You claim its easy to gain muscle and lose bodyfat at the same time lol, please explain how to do so? Also you cant just replace fat with muscle, fat cells and muscle cells are completly different.

by clean they just mean cleaning the diet up. Getting rid of all the bad fat sources and reducing bad carb sources.

Fixed

"Bad" fat sources and "bad" carb sources will have no effect on body composition.

Eating 200g of carbs from foods such as oats and brown rice will have no benifits on improving body composition compared to eating 200g of carbs from white bread and coke.

[PeterDolan]

by clean they just mean cleaning the diet up. Getting rid of all the bad fat sources and reducing bad carb sources.

Fixed

"Bad" fat sources and "bad" carb sources will have no effect on body composition.

Eating 200g of carbs from foods such as oats and brown rice will have no benifits on improving body composition compared to eating 200g of carbs from white bread and coke.

So if I took in 400g a day of sugar, it wouldn't affect me any different than taking in 400g of carbs from oats? That is absolute rubbish

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Fixed

"Bad" fat sources and "bad" carb sources will have no effect on body composition.

Eating 200g of carbs from foods such as oats and brown rice will have no benifits on improving body composition compared to eating 200g of carbs from white bread and coke.

So if I took in 400g a day of sugar, it wouldn't affect me any different than taking in 400g of carbs from oats? That is absolute rubbish

Yup would have no difference on body composition. (serious)

The glycemic index is also irrelevant, unless you have diabetes.

[PeterDolan]

"Bad" fat sources and "bad" carb sources will have no effect on body composition.

Eating 200g of carbs from foods such as oats and brown rice will have no benifits on improving body composition compared to eating 200g of carbs from white bread and coke.

So if I took in 400g a day of sugar, it wouldn't affect me any different than taking in 400g of carbs from oats? That is absolute rubbish

Yup would have no difference on body composition. (serious)

The glycemic index is also irrelevant, unless you have diabetes.

Any one else believe this other than Layne?

[JOSEF RAKICH]

So if I took in 400g a day of sugar, it wouldn't affect me any different than taking in 400g of carbs from oats? That is absolute rubbish

Yup would have no difference on body composition. (serious)

The glycemic index is also irrelevant, unless you have diabetes.

Any one else believe this other than Layne?

Peter you should join BB.com and lurk or post in there nutrition section, there is so much usefull information in there, alot of old bro-science myths get debunked etc, like meal nutrient timing isnt important neither is meal frequency, etc..

Alan Aragon one of the top nutritionists in the world also posts there, he quotes this also about how you can eat ANYTHING you want as long as it meets your calorie requirements and macros breakdown for whatever your goals may be.

I eat McDonalds every single day because i fit it into my daily macros.

IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros) you can eat anythign you want and it will have no difference on body composition.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

^^^

Well i did eat McDonalds every single day before i got glandular fever.

My throat is extremly painfull i cant eat anything at all i tryed to drink a protein shake the other day but couldent even finish it, i cant talk at all havent spoken a single word in like 3 days im off the gym for 5-6 weeks and eating less than 400 calories per day, all i do is sleep and watch TV im off work for weeks, f'ucking sucks. Most my calories are coming from orange juice and black current juice, i simply cannot eat anythign else.

My spleen is also swollen from glandular fever so in 6 weeks time when i get back into the gym i have to take it easy incase i rupture it, not to mention my liver is damaged from this and will take 3-6 months to recover..

[Darkmanx]

Well JK, i guess if Alan Aragon says jump of the cliff you'll jump, right? Dude, you continue to surprise me with ...

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Well JK, i guess if Alan Aragon says jump of the cliff you'll jump, right? Dude, you continue to surprise me with ...

Its not just Alan, its many others who also follow the IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros) rule. Things have changed from the 1990's, bro. White bread or a packet of chips wont automatically make you fat because its not a "good" carb lol. The G.I scale also means nothing now, people have started to look at the over all bigger picture.

[Darkmanx]

Well JK, i guess if Alan Aragon says jump of the cliff you'll jump, right? Dude, you continue to surprise me with ...

Its not just Alan, its many others who also follow the IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros) rule. Things have changed from the 1990's, bro. White bread or a packet of chips wont automatically make you fat because its not a "good" carb.

:pray:

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Well JK, i guess if Alan Aragon says jump of the cliff you'll jump, right? Dude, you continue to surprise me with ...

Its not just Alan, its many others who also follow the IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros) rule. Things have changed from the 1990's, bro. White bread or a packet of chips wont automatically make you fat because its not a "good" carb.

:pray:

The bro-science is strong with this one.

Kane Sumabat one of the most shredded and best physiques in the world, he has been following IIFYM rule for years, he eats donuts, pizza, hamburgers, whatever. Every single day.

But he hits his desired calorie requirements and macronutrient split for his goals. Do you really belive that eating a slice of cake has an automatic fat storing effect opposed to something else of which you call "clean" at same calorie content. Lol.

[Pseudonym]

If you've got glandular fever, JR, you should be in bed now! Hope you can bounce back from it quickly - I know it can knock you pretty hard. A friend of mine once spent Christmas Day in hospital with liver damage from glandular fever. :shock:

Anyway, what you say is interesting. I didn't know it was called IIFYM, but I dieted for my first competition eating jam on toast and chocolate biscuits. Oh, and no cardio till two weeks out. It was awesome! (Although I have to say subsequent attempts at the same diet didn't produce anywhere near the same result.)

He may not thank me for dragging him into this debate, but doesn't Loochi use the same principle?

[trainlikeafreak]

quality foods build muscle. "I was eating a lot of food and was wondering why I wasnt building muscle. I was eating a lot of food, but i wasnt eating a lot of good food. protein is what builds muscle, but its gotta be good quality protein" -Ronnie Coleman

[ThePman]

Anyway, what you say is interesting. I didn't know it was called IIFYM, but I dieted for my first competition eating jam on toast and chocolate biscuits. Oh, and no cardio till two weeks out. It was awesome! (Although I have to say subsequent attempts at the same diet didn't produce anywhere near the same result.)

He may not thank me for dragging him into this debate, but doesn't Loochi use the same principle?

You're not the only one. Back when I prepped figure girls, I had the same rule about putting calories and macro targets above all else. If anything I found that not being so obsessive over food types made it easier for a lot of them to stick to a calorie target; they weren't freaking out over having a cookie or a piece of chocolate, and having a weekly cheat meal/day would usually trigger some kind of 'visual progress'.

I think there's a lot to be said for developing a healthy relationship with food as opposed to the near eating disorder that physique competitors are prone to develop.

You can't completely ignore macros -- things like protein and essential fats have to be there -- and calorie balance must be spot on but once the rest is in place, I've just never seen the "clean" thing matter too much. Once a daily deficit is in place and protein/fat is ensured, the remainder of the diet can be brown rice or it can be ice cream and there won't really be a difference in outcome. IMO the clean-food strategy works because it's harder to overeat on chicken and broccoli, and for the same reasons you'll tend to cover the basic nutrients, but I don't think it's necessary.

[Chemo]

I agree that macros are a great way to plan for a goal weight or bodycomp, but I don't believe its good science to base everything on cals. Hormones play a huge part of what happens to those cals.

I wouldn't agree calories are calories, especially not in a broader sense.

Protein being a great example. Not all protein are created equal. Different sources carry different amino acid profiles, some high in bcaas some not.

If a BBr was to have 30g of a whey vs 30g of vege protein the whey would have a much better effect of protein synth than the other.

I dont get what you mean by GI doesn't count unless your a diabetic.

Sugars spike insulin with everybody, do that enough for too long and you may get symptoms of a diabetic (insulin resistance) Why spike insulin when you dont need too? Picking a low GI meal and still having the ability to still burn fat after it is "optimal"

Processed foods without the vits and mins it should have?

Your gonna be much better off getting your macros and micros from your food calories than just your macros. Not to mention a bunch of different extracts that help body comp.

-Avena Sativa from Oats, frees up testosterone by binding to SHBG (or doing something to SHBG)

From someone who also considers performance, cranking a shitload of sugars before training isnt gonna cut it, where low-medium GI foods will.

My couple cents anyways

[JOSEF RAKICH]

If you've got glandular fever, JR, you should be in bed now! Hope you can bounce back from it quickly - I know it can knock you pretty hard. A friend of mine once spent Christmas Day in hospital with liver damage from glandular fever. :shock:

Anyway, what you say is interesting. I didn't know it was called IIFYM, but I dieted for my first competition eating jam on toast and chocolate biscuits. Oh, and no cardio till two weeks out. It was awesome! (Although I have to say subsequent attempts at the same diet didn't produce anywhere near the same result.)

He may not thank me for dragging him into this debate, but doesn't Loochi use the same principle?

Yes i sleep basically all day long wake up watch a bit of TV then back to sleep, then when it comes to night time i cant get to sleep.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

quality foods build muscle. "I was eating a lot of food and was wondering why I wasnt building muscle. I was eating a lot of food, but i wasnt eating a lot of good food. protein is what builds muscle, but its gotta be good quality protein" -Ronnie Coleman

Protein is protein, comparing casein protein to whey protein even though whey protein has a higher BV rating, it will have no difference on body composition. (in-complete protein sources are different however, as they are incomplete)

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Anyway, what you say is interesting. I didn't know it was called IIFYM, but I dieted for my first competition eating jam on toast and chocolate biscuits. Oh, and no cardio till two weeks out. It was awesome! (Although I have to say subsequent attempts at the same diet didn't produce anywhere near the same result.)

He may not thank me for dragging him into this debate, but doesn't Loochi use the same principle?

You're not the only one. Back when I prepped figure girls, I had the same rule about putting calories and macro targets above all else. If anything I found that not being so obsessive over food types made it easier for a lot of them to stick to a calorie target; they weren't freaking out over having a cookie or a piece of chocolate, and having a weekly cheat meal/day would usually trigger some kind of 'visual progress'.

I think there's a lot to be said for developing a healthy relationship with food as opposed to the near eating disorder that physique competitors are prone to develop.

You can't completely ignore macros -- things like protein and essential fats have to be there -- and calorie balance must be spot on but once the rest is in place, I've just never seen the "clean" thing matter too much. Once a daily deficit is in place and protein/fat is ensured, the remainder of the diet can be brown rice or it can be ice cream and there won't really be a difference in outcome. IMO the clean-food strategy works because it's harder to overeat on chicken and broccoli, and for the same reasons you'll tend to cover the basic nutrients, but I don't think it's necessary.

Yup this. :nod:

[rovr4on]

so the vitamins and minerals of a brocolli have no benefit re body compisiton compared to eating 15 cookies per day to a whole broccoli? as long as they have the same number of calories? seems odd

[maassive]

so the vitamins and minerals of a brocolli have no benefit re body compisiton compared to eating 15 cookies per day to a whole broccoli? as long as they have the same number of calories? seems odd

Not body composition, but there is a lot more to food than nutrient partitioning.

If you eat 400 grams of white sugar a day, it will count as CHO in terms of body comp, but you'll still end up with free prescribed insulin, even if you are lean.

I think JR is bringing up a useful point, but oversimplifying for effect.

[rovr4on]

yeah i agree, he is saying you can have maccas everyday if you want to as long as it is counted as part of your macro intake. When he refers to those specific pros they may eat something bad everyday, but im sure the meals for rest of the day are quite healthy...so its more of a balancing aspect rather than the over simplified example he is putting foward..

[Phedder]

Avena Sativa from Oats, frees up testosterone by binding to HSBG (or doing something to HSBG)

Do you mean SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin)? Or do I need to look into this HSBG stuff :shifty:

I agree with calories and macros being paramount when it comes to body composition, but why ignore health all together? No point looking great if you feel like crap all the time because you're malnourished. Sure you can eat what you're craving and make it fit fine, but every good diet should still be based around tasty nutritious food for the best in sanity, appearance and health.

Our student magazine The Critic did an article about eating three double down combos a day for a week. The macros actually looked decent but the effects that it had on both his body composition and just general feeling of well being was horrible, felt sorry for the guy at the end of it all. I realise that it is by no means an accurate scientific study, measurements could have been inaccurate etc, but it's still not something I'd ever want to do to myself.

[samoan_muscle]

Avena Sativa from Oats, frees up testosterone by binding to HSBG (or doing something to HSBG)

Do you mean SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin)? Or do I need to look into this HSBG stuff :shifty:

Google BGHS.

Or whas it GSHB?

[JOSEF RAKICH]

so the vitamins and minerals of a brocolli have no benefit re body compisiton compared to eating 15 cookies per day to a whole broccoli? as long as they have the same number of calories? seems odd

Micros dont have an effect on body comp no.. As long as calories are = and macros are spot on there will be no difference in body composition, as for micros vitamins/minerals etc, yes with most "junk" food they have low amounts but as long as you are taking a decent multi, or eating other high quality foods with good vitamins/minerals in other meals to get in your anti-oxidants etc, you will be fine fit and healthy.

[PeterDolan]

I think that micros have an indirect effect on body comp

[rovr4on]

so in principle, you can fit a cheat meal in every day, requiring you have a good diet for other meals to get the required vits n mins...and take the excess calories off other meals...seems realtively straight foward...so going back to body compisiton, if I had 2-3 maccas meals per day with a good quality mutli this wouldnt effect my body comp, but it means I will have less energy in gym which would overall effect my body comp no?