Stanozolol on test tren blast

[thatwaslight]

i have had a heap of winny (oral) sitting round and have decided to give it a try, this will be a bulking cycle and i'm curious to hear the worth of including winny and at what dose? had 50mg this morning b4 breakfast and am thinking of running for 4-6 weeks or b4 my joints shit them selves.

750 test 400 tren Also running 250 deca for joint protection.

Thoughts?

[Android]

Silly idea for 2 reasons:

You are already taking 1.4gms/wk, before making this a (50mgx7=350) 1.7gm/wk gear-fest have a think about where you could improve other aspects of your regime to achieve the same gains. Someone who has excessive muscles might use that amount but surely you could grow with less?

Winny isn't a bulking compound you would be wasting the tabs. You will retain less water but if u dropped your amounts might achieve sane thing.

Quite surprised and concerned just how much u r using for someone who isn't yet at the "freaky big" stage of your quest for bigness that's all dude.

[samoan_muscle]

i have had a heap of winny (oral) sitting round and have decided to give it a try, this will be a bulking cycle and i'm curious to hear the worth of including winny and at what dose? had 50mg this morning b4 breakfast and am thinking of running for 4-6 weeks or b4 my joints shit them selves.

750 test 400 tren Also running 250 deca for joint protection.

Thoughts?

Stanzolol is a great addition to any cycle regardless of purpose (mass/cutting).

See the below article....

How winny and proviron will make your cycle kick ass.

Really only a very small amount of Testosterone exists as ?free? testosterone. Free test is testosterone that capable of binding to the Androgen Receptor, which is where all the rest of the magic happens, and allows for the following benefits:

-Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF-1, etc.)

-Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)

-Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasm ratio)

-Enhanced protein synthesis

-New myofibril formation

Testosterone binds at around 45% to what is known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), and about another 53% binds to proteins (albumin). The rest exists in a ?free? state (about 2% if you did your math). Different variations of steroids also differ in the way in which they bind to proteins.

If one could unbind testosterone from SHBG by even a small percentage, it could make a big difference in the way that testosterone or other AAS exert their anabolic effects. Studies show that when testosterone is unbound from SHBG the ?free? test does in fact exert greater effects than total T. As the following studies support:

-

Demisch K and Nickelsen T. Distribution of testosterone in plasma proteins during replacement therapy with testosterone enanthate in patients suffering from hypogonadism Andrologia 1983; 15 Spec No: 536-41.

Gandar R. Interpretation of the blood level of a steroid Rev Fr Gynecol Obstet 1985 Aug-Sep; 80(8-9):635-40.

Legrand E., et al. Osteoporosis in men: a potential role for the sex hormone binding globulin Bone 2001 Jul; 29(1):90-5.

Longcope C., et al. Diet and sex hormone-binding globulin. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jan; 85(1):293-296.

Valero-Politi J and Fuentes-Arderiu X. Within- and between-subject biological variations of follitropin, lutropin, testosterone, and sex-hormone-binding globulin in men. Clin Chem 1993 Aug; 39(8):1723-1725.

Proviron (1-Methyl Dihydrotestosterone) has been shown to bind with SHBG much more readily than test.

Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin.

Saartok T, Dahlberg E, Gustafsson JA.

It is unclear whether anabolic steroids act on skeletal muscle via the androgen receptor (AR) in this tissue, or whether there is a separate anabolic receptor. When several anabolic steroids were tested as competitors for the binding of [3H] methyltrienolone (MT; 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-4, 9, 11-estratrien-3-one) to the AR in rat and rabbit skeletal muscle and rat prostate, respectively, MT itself was the most efficient competitor. 1 alpha-Methyl-5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (1 alpha-methyl-DHT; mesterolone) bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) [relative binding affinity (RBA) about 4 times that of DHT]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids bound strongly to the AR in skeletal muscle and prostate [RBAs relative to that of MT: MT greater than 19-nortestosterone (NorT; nandrolone) greater than methenolone (17 beta-hydroxy-1-methyl-5 alpha-androst-1-en-3-one) greater than testosterone (T) greater than 1 alpha-methyl-DHT]. In other cases, AR binding was weak (RBA values less than 0.05): stanozolol (17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha- androstano [3, 2-c] pyrazol-17 beta-ol), methanedienone (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-1, 4-androstadien-3-one), and fluoxymesterolone (9 alpha-fluoro-11 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-T). Other compounds had RBAs too low to be determined (e.g. oxymetholone (17 beta-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstan-3-one) and ethylestrenol (17 alpha-ethyl-4- estren -17 beta-ol). The competition pattern was similar in muscle and prostate, except for a higher RBA of DHT in the prostate. The low RBA of DHT in muscle was probably due to the previously reported rapid reduction of its 3-keto function to metabolites, which did not bind to the AR [5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol and its 3 beta-isomer (3 alpha- and 3 beta-adiol, respectively)]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids (only a few synthetic) bound to SHBG (1 alpha-methyl-DHT much greater than DHT greater than T greater than 3 beta-adiol greater than 3 alpha-adiol = 17 alpha-methyl-T greater than methenolone greater than methanedienone greater than stanozolol). The ratio of the RBA in rat muscle to that in the prostate (an estimate of the myotrophic potency of the compounds) was close to unity, varying only between about 0.4 and 1.7 in most cases.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)

Skalba P, Korfanty A, Mroczka W, Wojtowicz M. Related Articles

[Changes of SHBG concentrations in postmenopausal women]

Ginekol Pol. 2001 Dec;72(12A):1388-92. Polish.

Variations of sex hormone-binding globulin in thyroid dysfunction.

Brenta G, Schnitman M, Gurfinkiel M, Damilano S, Pierini A, Sinay I, Pisarev MA.

Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, French Hospital, Buenos Aires, Argentina. brenta@cnea.gov.ar

With the aim of understanding the variations of the levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) in thyroid dysfunction, we studied the influence of factors that also modify SHBG, such as menopausal status, age, and body mass index (BMI) in women with hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism, both overt and subclinical. Statistical analysis was performed by means of analysis of variance (ANOVA), stepwise multiple regression, and partial correlation. The ANOVA showed a significant statistical difference among the means of SHBG of all groups (p<0.01). The difference was due to the group that included hyperthyroid women. Multiple regression analysis showed that the main factors influencing SHBG were BMI and age, except for the hyperthyroid group, where the most important independent variables were triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Partial correlation controlling the effect of BMI and age showed no association between SHBG and the other variables in all groups except for the subclinical hyperthyroid and hyperthyroid, where we found a significant association between SHBG and T4 and T3. The premenopausal or postmenopausal status did not modify SHBG levels. When the patients are taken as a whole, BMI, age, T4, and T3 all have an association with SHBG levels according to the multiple regression analysis.

Determinants of sex hormone-binding globulin blood concentrations in premenopausal and postmenopausal women with different estrogen status. Virgilio-Menopause-Health Group.

Pasquali R, Vicennati V, Bertazzo D, Casimirri F, Pascal G, Tortelli O, Labate AM.

Department of Internal Medicine and Gastroenterology, University of Bologna, Italy

Just a quote: 2) SHBG values are correlated positively with estradiol and negatively with insulin and testosterone concentrations, but the predictive value of these variabiles on SHBG appears to be different in premenopause and postmenopause;

Here is a fun little fact: the level of SHBG can also be influenced by other factors. There is a direct relationship between the level of estrogen and thyroid hormones and the level of SHBG. Estrogen goes up, SHBG goes up. Estrogen goes down SHBG goes down. Same for Thyroid hormones triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Also, there is a relationship with diet and insulin, but that is something I will save for later. Higher androgen levels due to AS administration has been shown to considerably lower levels of SHBG as well. The AS Winstrol (stanozolol) was shown in a 1989 study to lower levels of SHBG by 50% after oral administration.

Sex hormone-binding globulin response to the anabolic steroid stanozolol: evidence for its suitability as a biological androgen sensitivity test.

Sinnecker G, Kohler S.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Hamburg, West Germany.

Both the androgen-induced decline in serum sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels during puberty and the anabolic effect of exogenous testosterone are absent in patients with androgen insensitivity (testicular feminization). To determine whether the androgen-induced decline in serum SHBG could be used as a test of androgen sensitivity, we studied the effect of the anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazol) on serum SHBG in 25 control subjects, 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity, and 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity. Stanozolol was administered orally for 3 days (0.2 mg/kg.day); blood samples were taken before and 5, 6, 7, and 8 days after the beginning of the test for measurements of serum SHBG. The lowest value (i.e. the peak response) in each subject was used as the measure of the response to stanozolol. In the control subjects the mean nadir serum SHBG level was 51.6 +/- 5.9% (+/- SD) of the initial value (P less than 0.001). In the 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity the nadir serum SHBG ranged from 73-89%, and in the 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity it ranged from 93-97% of the initial value. Thus, the decrease in serum SHBG after short term administration of stanozolol reflects androgen responsiveness and, thus, may be used to differentiate patients with androgen insensitivity syndromes from those with other causes of male pseudohermaphroditism.

Here?s the thing: This was after oral administration, so I am not sure that I can extrapolate the data to injectable as well. SHBG is made in the liver so even an injectable winny would have to be processed there, albeit slower, due to the slower release of injectable winny and it?s direct release into the bloodstream. That could possibly make it a little less effective in this regard.

In a nutshell: Proviron and Winny could provide the mechanisms to increase the value of other AS. Proviron would work because by binding to SHBG, it leaves hormone in a free state to bind to the AR. Proviron is a terrible Anabolic, but its affinity for SHBG would essentially ?displace?other steroids from binding to SHBG. Winstrol would work to reduce the overall amount of SHBG, thereby having the effect of freeing up hormone to bind to the AR. What a stack!

[samoan_muscle]

Silly idea for 2 reasons:

You are already taking 1.4gms/wk, before making this a (50mgx7=350) 1.7gm/wk gear-fest have a think about where you could improve other aspects of your regime to achieve the same gains. Someone who has excessive muscles might use that amount but surely you could grow with less?

Winny isn't a bulking compound you would be wasting the tabs. You will retain less water but if u dropped your amounts might achieve sane thing.

Quite surprised and concerned just how much u r using for someone who isn't yet at the "freaky big" stage of your quest for bigness that's all dude.

You'd be an idiot to listen to Android, his information is worth about the same as WBJKD.

[tomsammce]

Silly idea for 2 reasons:

You are already taking 1.4gms/wk, before making this a (50mgx7=350) 1.7gm/wk gear-fest have a think about where you could improve other aspects of your regime to achieve the same gains. Someone who has excessive muscles might use that amount but surely you could grow with less?

Winny isn't a bulking compound you would be wasting the tabs. You will retain less water but if u dropped your amounts might achieve sane thing.

Quite surprised and concerned just how much u r using for someone who isn't yet at the "freaky big" stage of your quest for bigness that's all dude.

that amount of gear isnt uncommon lol why are you so concerned who u kidding? half the guys on here are prob using double and triple of what they say they are.

and winnys not a bulking compound? alot of people have the misconception that winny is some sort of fat burner when that idea couldnt be further from the truth.... 50mg/day or winny and eating like a horse will actually bulk u up believe it or not... just because it doesnt blow you up with water doesnt mean it wont 'bulk you up' and add muscle... the weight gains arent as rapid as with some other compounds but its quality!

[samoan_muscle]

Silly idea for 2 reasons:

You are already taking 1.4gms/wk, before making this a (50mgx7=350) 1.7gm/wk gear-fest have a think about where you could improve other aspects of your regime to achieve the same gains. Someone who has excessive muscles might use that amount but surely you could grow with less?

Winny isn't a bulking compound you would be wasting the tabs. You will retain less water but if u dropped your amounts might achieve sane thing.

Quite surprised and concerned just how much u r using for someone who isn't yet at the "freaky big" stage of your quest for bigness that's all dude.

that amount of gear isnt uncommon lol why are you so concerned who u kidding? half the guys on here are prob using double and triple of what they say they are.

and winnys not a bulking compound? alot of people have the misconception that winny is some sort of fat burner when that idea couldnt be further from the truth.... 50mg/day or winny and eating like a horse will actually bulk u up believe it or not... just because it doesnt blow you up with water doesnt mean it wont 'bulk you up' and add muscle... the weight gains arent as rapid as with some other compounds but its quality!

:ditto:

Huge misconception around about winny being able to "cut you up" alright.

Winny is often used in cutting cycles because it is non-aromatizing however for the reasons stated in the article above, no reason why it shouldnt be used in a mass phase.

[Android]

I'm sure all of SMs mates and clients do use Winny for bulking, and all of Toms use nearly 2gms of gear a week, I bet they all do.

None of mine do unless it's last 12 weeks b4 a show that's my experience, take it or leave it. If u added another meal or trained harder you'd achieve the same result as more gear...but everyone likes to think they already have their meals and workouts on point.

If u ask those 2 clowns how to get past a plateau on a cycle they'll tell u take more gear lmao, amateurs.

Riddle me this clowns...So many people are making huge steady gains on less, what r u doing wrong ?

And that's true Winnys not for cutting, no-one has that mis-conception here

[tomsammce]

I'm sure all of SMs mates and clients do use Winny for bulking, and all of Toms use nearly 2gms of gear a week, I bet they all do.

None of mine do unless it's last 12 weeks b4 a show that's my experience, take it or leave it. If u added another meal or trained harder you'd achieve the same result as more gear...but everyone likes to think they already have their meals and workouts on point.

If u ask those 2 clowns how to get past a plateau on a cycle they'll tell u take more gear lmao, amateurs.

Riddle me this clowns...So many people are making huge steady gains on less, what r u doing wrong ?

i dont have clients and i dont have a list of pencilneck homo mates who line up to take some bullshit advice on steroids im feeding them to put money in my pocket.... whos pocket u filling up btw? coz u sure do repeat some bullshit...

your one of those guys who thinks ur the only one qualifieda dn experienced enough to use gear and ur the only one who knows what good nutrition is and your the hardest trainer in the gym. and i know u been taking gear longer than what u say on this forum and probably take way higher doses too... i know this coz i know ppl who know u and have dealt with u... nz bodybuilding full of gossip everyone talking shit no ones no ones friend unless they want/need something... there you just learnt sumthing else too.

now quit telling ppl they using too much gear u sound like a hypocritical knob end.

[Optimass]

I'm sure all of SMs mates and clients do use Winny for bulking, and all of Toms use nearly 2gms of gear a week, I bet they all do.

None of mine do unless it's last 12 weeks b4 a show that's my experience, take it or leave it. If u added another meal or trained harder you'd achieve the same result as more gear...but everyone likes to think they already have their meals and workouts on point.

If u ask those 2 clowns how to get past a plateau on a cycle they'll tell u take more gear lmao, amateurs.

Riddle me this clowns...So many people are making huge steady gains on less, what r u doing wrong ?

i dont have clients and i dont have a list of pencilneck homo mates who line up to take some bullshit advice on steroids im feeding them to put money in my pocket.... whos pocket u filling up btw? coz u sure do repeat some bullshit...

your one of those guys who thinks ur the only one qualifieda dn experienced enough to use gear and ur the only one who knows what good nutrition is and your the hardest trainer in the gym. and i know u been taking gear longer than what u say on this forum and probably take way higher doses too... i know this coz i know ppl who know u and have dealt with u... nz bodybuilding full of gossip everyone talking shit no ones no ones friend unless they want/need something... there you just learnt sumthing else too.

now quit telling ppl they using too much gear u sound like a hypocritical knob end.

He's allowed an opinion and he has experience much the same as you and SM. There are plenty of people pushing their ideas around the forum/ some would critisise you Tom based on yours and the way you give advice sometimes. I don't because I know where you are coming from. - we (as in everyone) are not always going to see eye to eye. Lets cut the bull shit name calling out now and get back to the topic at hand.

.....

50mg/day or winny and eating like a horse will actually bulk u up believe it or not... just because it doesnt blow you up with water doesnt mean it wont 'bulk you up' and add muscle... the weight gains arent as rapid as with some other compounds but its quality!

This is my experience also. I have been shot down for it in the past but have also experienced a nice hard summer look on vet winnie (IM) and dbols in the past - (long time ago) - but at the end of cycle.

[Android]

...and u take it off topic again. look there's no hiding I am self-obsessed with building a muscled physique so excuse me if I see areas of improvement that aren't gear related, they are more sustainable than that. Successful BBer's may be enhanced but they aren't above improving nutrition and training.

Am up front about all my cycles dude, 8 under my belt and in my 9th read all about it in my Journal. I have no readon to lie about amounts, have dropped from 800mg to 700mg lately and still gaining well.

i have helped quite a few people with cycles and supplements and preparation on stage in both Feds for nattys and enhanced but I know who r talking about. will follow up on that and c what can b done

All the best TWL for bulking I think u won't notice much with all the other gear. Tren is already a good hardening compound and keeping water weight down so winnys wouldn't b what I would take, which was your original question.

[samoan_muscle]

[MOD EDIT: No inflammatory comments, please.]

[samoan_muscle]

...and u take it off topic again. look there's no hiding I am self-obsessed with building a muscled physique so excuse me if I see areas of improvement that aren't gear related, they are more sustainable than that. Successful BBer's may be enhanced but they aren't above improving nutrition and training.

Am up front about all my cycles dude, 8 under my belt and in my 9th read all about it in my Journal. I have no readon to lie about amounts, have dropped from 800mg to 700mg lately and still gaining well.

i have helped quite a few people with cycles and supplements and preparation on stage in both Feds for nattys and enhanced but I know who r talking about. will follow up on that and c what can b done

All the best TWL for bulking I think u won't notice much with all the other gear. Tren is already a good hardening compound and keeping water weight down so winnys wouldn't b what I would take, which was your original question.

[MOD EDIT: No inflammatory comments, please.]

I dont know anywhere where either Tom or I have said the answer to everyones problems is more gear. Its quite the opposite.

I dont comment on very many nutro threads because there are enough "brofessionals" on here to to make their analysis as it is. Yourself included.

So dont try and say that I'm all about gear and that Im above better training or nutrition.

And before you start saying Im in cahoots with Tom I'm not. Your original comments were aimed at us hence the reply.

Tom's ugly enough and has a big enough mouth on him to defend himself.

[thatwaslight]

Thanks for all the replys guys and the lol's.

Android, it may seem like alot of gear however I believe and IME everyone responds differently to diff amounts of gear, I have never 'blown up' like alot of people I know with far worse nutrition and less gear than me. I am a full blown ecto and I will never be "freaky" no matter what I do, I just don't have the genetics for it I was 60kg b4 training at 511...lol I'm unrecognizable to the people who knew me back then so I'm doing ok I think. Since the start of my training I have put 37kg on and almost 100kg on my bench and other lifts, need to double that lol

I think on this forum too many people are quick to say don't do gear, drop your dose, reach your natural potential FUCKING LOL ect ect when in reality more people need to say "ok maybe I don't agree with your use but if you are going to this is what I would advise" at the end of the day I'm going to give it a go and see what it's like I'm not going to end up dead.

Also after reading Sifos cycle and his take I have to agree with him in regard to ex amount of gear translating into x amount of gains it just isn't quantifiable. I'll do what's necessary to grow within reason and ATM I can't seem to shake this plateu , I agree with you re diet it can always improve and in no means is perfect but dumping a whole extra lot of cals on never translates to quality gains for me. Anyway back to it

[thatwaslight]

Thanks for all the replys guys and the lol's.

Android, it may seem like alot of gear however I believe and IME everyone responds differently to diff amounts of gear, I have never 'blown up' like alot of people I know with far worse nutrition and less gear than me. I am a full blown ecto and I will never be "freaky" no matter what I do, I just don't have the genetics for it I was 60kg b4 training at 511...lol I'm unrecognizable to the people who knew me back then so I'm doing ok I think. Since the start of my training I have put 37kg on and almost 100kg on my bench and other lifts, need to double that lol

I think on this forum too many people are quick to say don't do gear, drop your dose, reach your natural potential FUCKING LOL ect ect when in reality more people need to say "ok maybe I don't agree with your use but if you are going to this is what I would advise" at the end of the day I'm going to give it a go and see what it's like I'm not going to end up dead.

Also after reading Sifos cycle and his take I have to agree with him in regard to ex amount of gear translating into x amount of gains it just isn't quantifiable. I'll do what's necessary to grow within reason and ATM I can't seem to shake this plateu , I agree with you re diet it can always improve and in no means is perfect but dumping a whole extra lot of cals on never translates to quality gains for me. Anyway back to it

[musclenz]

Stanz is a great drug for use in any cycle, bulking or cutting. 50 - 100mg Ed Tabs or 100mg Depot EOD. FYI Stans rates much higher in anabolic/androgenic values than Dbol - Dbol 150/50 Winny 320/30. The good thing is that it holds less water weight & does not convert to estrogen like our pink friends.

[Sifo-Dyas]

i have had a heap of winny (oral) sitting round and have decided to give it a try, this will be a bulking cycle and i'm curious to hear the worth of including winny and at what dose? had 50mg this morning b4 breakfast and am thinking of running for 4-6 weeks or b4 my joints shit them selves.

750 test 400 tren Also running 250 deca for joint protection.

Thoughts?

Winny is great for a mass phase. You can see in mt cycle I am running it with great results and always have.

Many people think winny is weak and dbol is the king. If you look at the two just basically. Winny has an anablic/androgenic rating of approx 320/40 and dbol 210/60... The main difference between the two is that Dbol aromatises and causes a lot of fluid retention. This fluid retention increases strength and stretches the fascia.

One of the main reasons people run an oral with their stack is that C17aa orals will raise IGF1 when they hit the live. And both Stanz and Dbol are equal in this ability.

As far as post cycle gain retention is concerned, stanz has always been far superior in all my cycles.

Tren and stanz are great together. 400mg of Tren is right up there in the high range that can give the kidneys a bit of a hiding. Drink heaps of water. Consider some cranberry, or drop the Tren down to 300mg/week and you may even achieve better results overall at this dose. I don't get any benefits over 300mg of Tren in any stack.

[thatwaslight]

Great stuff thanks for the reply, I will drop tren back to 300 on your advise, my piss is really yellow already and I've only had 2 shots. Going to give ace ago in the next few weeks and see how I respond as many I've talked to say they get better results with ace, what's your opinion mate?

Anyone else want to chime in about tren dose? I have heard varying things re the effect it has on kidneys?

[Sifo-Dyas]

Sorry to be a hog...got a tun of tren experience...I monitored the effects at many doses.

At 100mg/week, its nearly interesting as the strength increases.

At 200mg/week, everything really starts to fire up.

At 300mg/week it is perfect. Strength and training aggression are through the roof and confidence is at a healthy high.

At 400mg/week it begins to mess with your head and can cause you to be more argumentative. Urine is unhealthy looking, really dark and confidence shifts to an annoying cocky place.

At over 500mg/week flu like symptoms slow your training which slows your growth and breathing is laboured as the BA is expired through the lungs. You may also begin to get blood in your urine.

On paper Test has an anabolic/androgenic rating of 100/100 and Tren is 500/500. Although this is on paper, the effect on the your CNS centres in the brain of a hormone that is 5 times more androgenic than testosterone is very powerful and needs to be respected.

Tren Acetate is really how tren is supposed to be and is most peoples personal favorite.

I will be interested to hear how you go with the deca in there as well. I do not suffer Deca side effects ever...unless I run Deca with Tren.

[genetic freek]

If you taking that amount of gear and eating alot of food you can't help but build muscle.

If you have it lying around throw it in. You will soon find out for yourself what results it gives you.

Nice stack

[Chemo]

Wow TWL this sounds like quite the stack. You gon be two ectomorphs wide after this :shock:

A question about tren for all: How do you all cope with the "gasing out" effect?

Is it a real problem at 200-300mg? I have only read about it but never thought to ask what it was really like.

I'm interested how it would effect sprint efforts, circuit training etc.

[thatwaslight]

Wow TWL this sounds like quite the stack. You gon be two ectomorphs wide after this :shock:

A question about tren for all: How do you all cope with the "gasing out" effect?

Is it a real problem at 200-300mg? I have only read about it but never thought to ask what it was really like.

I'm interested how it would effect sprint efforts, circuit training etc.

im breathless as f*ck after my first couple of sets, makes it 10x worse as i have asthma tho

[train hard]

i have in the past been able to increase my lean mass while been on maintenance calories taking test, tren and stanozol so im sure you could get great mass gains on a bulking phase and they would be lean good quality gains so why not any steroid can help you gain muscle not every bulking cycle has to be test, deca and dbol

[Usual Suspect]

Sorry to be a hog...got a tun of tren experience...I monitored the effects at many doses.

At 100mg/week, its nearly interesting as the strength increases.

At 200mg/week, everything really starts to fire up.

At 300mg/week it is perfect. Strength and training aggression are through the roof and confidence is at a healthy high.

At 400mg/week it begins to mess with your head and can cause you to be more argumentative. Urine is unhealthy looking, really dark and confidence shifts to an annoying cocky place.

At over 500mg/week flu like symptoms slow your training which slows your growth and breathing is laboured as the BA is expired through the lungs. You may also begin to get blood in your urine.

On paper Test has an anabolic/androgenic rating of 100/100 and Tren is 500/500. Although this is on paper, the effect on the your CNS centres in the brain of a hormone that is 5 times more androgenic than testosterone is very powerful and needs to be respected.

Tren Acetate is really how tren is supposed to be and is most peoples personal favorite.

I will be interested to hear how you go with the deca in there as well. I do not suffer Deca side effects ever...unless I run Deca with Tren.

Great post there Sifo.

I'm about to embark on my next cycle of 750 test cyp, 300 test prop, 400 Deca and 300 tren ace p/week (with 40mg dbol ED first 4 weeks as a kickstart. I have never run Deca and tren at the same time, by themselves they haven't given me too much grief. What sort of side effects did you encounter?

[Roidzilla]

interesting posts here on the winny.

If winny is so much more anabolic than dbol, and less androgenic, why dont more ppl front-load with it, particularly ppl newer to cycling?

why wouldnt you recommend someone do a testE+winny instead of the standard testE+dBol?

Is it cos whinny is more liver toxic?

[musclenz]

interesting posts here on the winny.

If winny is so much more anabolic than dbol, and less androgenic, why dont more ppl front-load with it, particularly ppl newer to cycling?

why wouldnt you recommend someone do a testE+winny instead of the standard testE+dBol?

Is it cos whinny is more liver toxic?

Because its a DHT derivative it binds easily to scalp receptors & thus like all DHT steroids its attraction is often negated by its potential side effects.