25yrs First Cycle - need advice

[joshrage]

Hi all,

this site is fantastic.

I'm looking for some advices.

I'm 25 been training for 4 yrs with supplements but never gear. Recently after doing my research I've realised how much bullshit is being sold in supplements and, consequently how much money I've wasted on herbal nothings. So now, it's time to get serious.

i'm 5'11 and 90 kg, not sure of exact bodyfat % atm but i'm not ripped, not fat.

My goal would be to get to 95kg and be quite ripped but not interested in competition bf levels or anything - its more about the challenge and the success.

I've read a lot of posts recommending sust as the way to go, plus deca.

I haven't got sources completely worked out yet (and yes I know that we're not allowed to name any) but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to sort this out. I would like to know how to not get ripped off though.

If there is a cheaper aas to use which is just a good for first time gains then I'd be interested.

Anyone care to offer their advice?

[WANABJAKD]

400-500mg of (single-esterfied)test for a first cycle is a good place to start. you could alternatively run dbol with it for 4-6 weeks at 20mg ED. there arent too many side effects related to dbol for the vast majority of its users.

i would just run test so you can learn know how you respond to it by itself. if you run multiple compounds without any (personal)feedback you will run into problems.

ill tell you right now, if you choose to run deca with test you will feel like crap and be confused in finding a healthy balance of both estrogen and prolactin without any experience.

-WANABJAKD

[nate225]

400-500mg of (single-esterfied)test for a first cycle is a good place to start. you could alternatively run dbol with it for 4-6 weeks at 20mg ED. there arent too many side effects related to dbol for the vast majority of its users.

i would just run test so you can learn know how you respond to it by itself. if you run multiple compounds without any (personal)feedback you will run into problems.

ill tell you right now, if you choose to run deca with test you will feel like crap and be confused in finding a healthy balance of both estrogen and prolactin without any experience.

-WANABJAKD

I'm assuming he meant deca WITHOUT test..... but you never know with Ramy.

Be aware you were given advice by a guy who has done 4 cycles and is still smaller than you..... maybe wit to hear from someone who knows more than what they read on the net. MuscleNZ, Tom, SM etc may want to chip in.

Good luck buddy.

[WANABJAKD]

400-500mg of (single-esterfied)test for a first cycle is a good place to start. you could alternatively run dbol with it for 4-6 weeks at 20mg ED. there arent too many side effects related to dbol for the vast majority of its users.

i would just run test so you can learn know how you respond to it by itself. if you run multiple compounds without any (personal)feedback you will run into problems.

ill tell you right now, if you choose to run deca with test you will feel like crap and be confused in finding a healthy balance of both estrogen and prolactin without any experience.

-WANABJAKD

I'm assuming he meant deca WITHOUT test..... but you never know with Ramy.

Be aware you were given advice by a guy who has done 4 cycles and is still smaller than you..... maybe wit to hear from someone who knows more than what they read on the net. MuscleNZ, Tom, SM etc may want to chip in.

Good luck buddy.

first of all nate, let me start by saying thankyou for spending so much time to write such thoughtful post.

I've read a lot of posts recommending sust as the way to go, plus deca.

secondly the human body is a science...experience doesnt mean much besides health management.

just for the record ive only ran 2 cycles. nate why dont you give some advice? im sure your qualified enough(from the practical side of things) :pfft:

[joshrage]

thanks guys.

i'm hearing that enanthate is a better way to go, and that it's the most common.

should i use dbs too with a 500mg dose or is that too much for first time?

[joshrage]

actually scrap the Dbs. i don't need to be that excessive for first cycle.

I have to say, trying to learn about how to do a cycle is extremely overwhelming because there is such a vast repository of conflicting data on the net!

Even for example, reading 'the beginners guide to using gear' by UsualSuspect drew in massive amounts of conflicting info!

For that reason, I think WANABJAKD's advice about just doing test and seeing the response is probably the safest bet. I'd love to know some big gorilla that I could ask all this shit in person but unfortunately I've been going to two gyms that both were rather light on the jacked side of things.

I've since moved on to a better gym, but the problem is no one knows me there so I don't want to go and ask some random for gear...

i'll been keen as to do a cycle log when I do start it for anyone who is interested, btw.

[nate225]

just for the record ive only ran 2 cycles. nate why dont you give some advice? im sure your qualified enough(from the practical side of things) :pfft:

Sorry to mislead readers - Wanna blow a kiddie has only done two cycles. He's now a MASSIVE 82kgs and only has to run around for 5 minutes now in the shower to get wet. Please listen to his advice about AAS / PED use - his acheivements warrant his self imposed guru status (sic).

For your troubles though WBJKD I'll quote my views stated in an earlier thread:

I generally don't comment on AAS topics as they tend to turn to shit and I don't want to be seen to be endorsing AAS usage.

HOWEVER the advice on this thread borders from poor to downright stupid IMHO!! :nod:

SM picked up on one such comment re: a short acting ester.

AA - why would you put a guy on 2 compounds rather than 1 on his first course? Particularly compounds that could have more complex PCT issues than T esters. Keeping it simple it makes sense that a first course should be T only.

Is low dose test is an option - IMHO I would say yes, I presume that is why it is used almost exclusively in HRT for males (a test blend or enanthate usually) based on medical research.

As mentioned in an earlier topic viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6130 I have spoken to elite SM competitors (International Pro's not local) who use what most here would term low dosage. One guy as low as 250 per week!!! :nod:

Again I'm no expert, (just a little better read than many it would seem! :grin: ), so I'd suggest Chemo asks someone who actually knows first hand as well as has a good theoretical basis for their advice..............MuscleNZ where are ya!!!!!! :grin:

I have seen guys first hand put on 8-10kg on a first cycle using 250mg / week. I have also seen big guys (120+ @ <10%) maintain at less than this dose. We all know about the guys taking 2 grams + a week, but for most people this is just pie in the sky stuff.

thanks guys.

i'm hearing that enanthate is a better way to go, and that it's the most common.

should i use dbs too with a 500mg dose or is that too much for first time?

IMHO - one compound, longer acting rather than short acting. Personally from what I've seen I'd say 250mg to start, others here with more knowledge than me would say 500 is fine.

Do your research mate, and make a call you're happy with. Afterall its you that has to accept there can be side effects with AAS use.

My 10 cents.

[HarryB]

I am with you on this one Nate.. basically wanabejakd you are recommending that this first starter take more test than I do? I would have thought try less and see how it goes so that you have room to increase. I never understand guys taking a lot to begin with because it doesn't give you anywhere to go. Will he then after 2 or 3 cycles be up to 1000mg or more of test/week?

I would say 250mg/week is fine and only because that's usually the dosgae in 1 ml. I actually usually get first timers to start on half that with some orals, maybe maximum 20mg ed of dianabol. I have a had a lot of success over the years with guys I have helped giving them 125-250/wk of test with usually 200/wk deca. If I am in maintenance mode I will take only 250 test and 200 deca once every 10 days and that keeps me ticking along just fine. And I am by no means a newbie.

[WANABJAKD]

nate your so sensitive. its like anything i say upsets you

250mg is pretty useless; once you factor metabolism of the hormone and the ester's weight, that would only equate to 170-180mgs(range taken into considertion of individual metabolism). once your HTPA(natural production) shuts down, thats 50-75mg of native testosterone lost aswell. so really all your giving yourself is a little more than double what the body already produces. :clap:

so your saying from a little more than twice the testosterone that we produce endogenously, allowed them to gain and maintain(after their cycles) 8-10kgs of lean tissue(not including fat or water)? most people cant even gain 8-10 kgs in a 500mg cycle regardless of (slight)fat and water retention. i gained 9 kgs in my last cycle with a tiny bit of fat and almost native water retention then maintained 5kgs of lean tissue.

fyi, my guru status was not self imposed, it was acclaimed :wink:

[nate225]

WBJKD - not going to waste more time on you & your internet knowledge. Between myself & Harry there is more than 40 years actually bar on back training experience and we both see you 400-500 as overkill. How many training partners (and in Harry's case himself) do you think we've had that have used multiple cycles of AAS? We have no reason to make this shit up.

250mg will grow a newbie. A guy I know very well used only this for 10-12 weeks (from memory) and kept 8kg. A good clean 8kg. Now the interesting thing was this guy was no gym newbie, he had a 10 year training history and was already 110ish kg. He knew how to eat & how to train, magically 250mg (even if this was only 2x natty levels if we take WBJKD calcs as gospel) made him grow like a weed.

My other comments in earlier thread.

Still worth the discussion as I still believe too many people default to 500mg / week as a standard practice with no real reasoning other than you're going to shut down your HPTA.

Using that methodology you might as well say "you're going to shut down your axis dude, might as well smack a grand or two a week", backed up by "it works for Ronnie bro" :pfft:

As I mentioned in an earlier thread I recently spoke to an International Pro Strongman competitor based in the US & asked him what guys were using to compete at international level. He mentioned some of the extreme cases but said a lot of the guys were very moderate and that he only used 250mg p/w except when close to competition when he added 30mg/day dianabol (and he was one big unit with more muscle than 99% of BBers/PLers/SM in NZL).

As MuscleNZ mentioned 250mg is around 3 times TRT doses (from what I understand TRT practice aims to give approx 25 y.o T levels and 250mg is administered every three weeks). I remember how well I could grow naturally at 25 years old - surely training with three times this testosterone would be beneficial for a first time user trying to get solid gains without too many side effects.

Worth considering.......

Im out. Can only say so much! :grin:

[Bobsta]

nate your so sensitive. its like anything i say upsets you

250mg is pretty useless; once you factor metabolism of the hormone and the ester's weight, that would only equate to 170-180mgs(range taken into considertion of individual metabolism). once your HTPA(natural production) shuts down, thats 50-75mg of native testosterone lost aswell. so really all your giving yourself is a little more than double what the body already produces. :clap:so your saying from a little more than twice the testosterone that we produce endogenously, allowed them to gain and maintain(after their cycles) 8-10kgs of lean tissue(not including fat or water)? most people cant even gain 8-10 kgs in a 500mg cycle regardless of (slight)fat and water retention. i gained 9 kgs in my last cycle with a tiny bit of fat and almost native water retention then maintained 5kgs of lean tissue.

fyi, my guru status was not self imposed, it was acclaimed :wink:

I dont know much about gear but if my natural test levels gave me X amount of muscle growth then i'm sure twice that level is def gonna give me some seroius extra growth!!

[WANABJAKD]

nate your so sensitive. its like anything i say upsets you

250mg is pretty useless; once you factor metabolism of the hormone and the ester's weight, that would only equate to 170-180mgs(range taken into considertion of individual metabolism). once your HTPA(natural production) shuts down, thats 50-75mg of native testosterone lost aswell. so really all your giving yourself is a little more than double what the body already produces. :clap:so your saying from a little more than twice the testosterone that we produce endogenously, allowed them to gain and maintain(after their cycles) 8-10kgs of lean tissue(not including fat or water)? most people cant even gain 8-10 kgs in a 500mg cycle regardless of (slight)fat and water retention. i gained 9 kgs in my last cycle with a tiny bit of fat and almost native water retention then maintained 5kgs of lean tissue.

fyi, my guru status was not self imposed, it was acclaimed :wink:

(1)I dont know much about gear but (2) if my natural test levels gave me X amount of muscle growth then i'm sure twice that level is def gonna give me some seroius extra growth!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

im not sure which im laughing about...number one or number two?

[jimjim83]

400-500mg of (single-esterfied)test for a first cycle is a good place to start. you could alternatively run dbol with it for 4-6 weeks at 20mg ED. there arent too many side effects related to dbol for the vast majority of its users.

i would just run test so you can learn know how you respond to it by itself. if you run multiple compounds without any (personal)feedback you will run into problems.

ill tell you right now, if you choose to run deca with test you will feel like crap and be confused in finding a healthy balance of both estrogen and prolactin without any experience.

-WANABJAKD

Dont listen to this guy he is a clown. Check out his pics. Ive said it before and ill say it again a picture paints a thousand words. WANBJRKD stop giving advice Im worried someone might listen to you. :doh:

[PeterDolan]

I think he's laughing at you given he's bigger than you are, even with all your "knowledge"

[HarryB]

400-500mg of (single-esterfied)test for a first cycle is a good place to start. you could alternatively run dbol with it for 4-6 weeks at 20mg ED. there arent too many side effects related to dbol for the vast majority of its users.

i would just run test so you can learn know how you respond to it by itself. if you run multiple compounds without any (personal)feedback you will run into problems.

ill tell you right now, if you choose to run deca with test you will feel like crap and be confused in finding a healthy balance of both estrogen and prolactin without any experience.

-WANABJAKD

Wanabjakd

Dont listen to this guy he is a clown. Check out his pics. Ive said it before and ill say it again a picture paints a thousand words. WANBJRKD stop giving advice Im worried someone might listen to you. :doh:

Wanabjakd, you should stick with telling us about your personal experiences not what you have read or heard. Cos I think your results speak volumes about what you have done and are doing.

[tomsammce]

250mg per week is fine... this is assuming it is 250mg you are taking.

i did a 8 weeks cycle for my first of pharma grade genesis (the real genesis) teston250 which was their product name for sustanon250.

i went from 76kg to 84kg and became leaner too. i had already got wat would be considered a pretty good physique (better than rakish lol) so its not like i got newbie gains mixed with gear.

after this i wasnt keen to pay $300 for 10ml of pharm gear so i switched to UG stuff for half the price but never got as good results. having said that a family member of mine recently did a first cycle and gained 10kgs... bodyfat went up a wee bit but thats just his bodytype so was expected since his eating isnt spot on he used 250mg week test e for 10 weeks was ug made oil.

ill be honest myself after my first cycle i got carried away as i was young and stupid and jumped the dosages up in my 2nd and 3rd cycles so by the 4th i was using quite alot of gear... i wish i had of maybe done another cycle on 250mg/week and raised the dosages only slightly each time... this is a much for sensible approach as iv found out ther is no rush and all it does is burn holes in your pockets for not much more benefit... but hindsights a wonderful thing huh.

smarter not harder bro.

[joshrage]

lol. its quite funny what a mixed bag this is regarding 250v500mg.

I think i may start with 250mg and see how the results are going.

What's everybody's opinion on length of cycle? do you think it's better to go for longer (eg 12weeks) with less, or 8 weeks with more?

Also, how much nolva do you tihnk i will need for htis?

[tomsammce]

sorry my 8 weeks cycle was weeks1-3 250/wk, weeks4&5 500/wk, weeks5-8 250mg/wk.

yeah it worked well for me, but anything would have really using that stuff with how i was motivated and training eating etc. i cant remember why i chose to run it this way tbh

[Bobsta]

[LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

im not sure which im laughing about...number one or number two?

Oaakay... you cant be helped, keep laughing...

[aidangro]

you could do it like tom did for his first, or just do 250mg for 10 weeks, you would get great gains either way

[tomsammce]

[LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

im not sure which im laughing about...number one or number two?

Oaakay... you cant be helped, keep laughing...

exactly pull your head in. dont get me wrong im all for abit of laughter and piss taking but your not providing either all your doing is spamming the steroid section with information, alot of which is complete bullshit. its ok for u to have an opinion and it does add value but when u shoot everyone down who knows more than u and be a knob about it its kinda lame... by all means shoot ppl down and call them a moron but make sure your right and they are wrong b4 u do it.

[samoan_muscle]

400-500mg of (single-esterfied)test for a first cycle is a good place to start. you could alternatively run dbol with it for 4-6 weeks at 20mg ED. there arent too many side effects related to dbol for the vast majority of its users.

i would just run test so you can learn know how you respond to it by itself. if you run multiple compounds without any (personal)feedback you will run into problems.

ill tell you right now, if you choose to run deca with test you will feel like crap and be confused in finding a healthy balance of both estrogen and prolactin without any experience.

-WANABJAKD

Wanabjakd

Dont listen to this guy he is a clown. Check out his pics. Ive said it before and ill say it again a picture paints a thousand words. WANBJRKD stop giving advice Im worried someone might listen to you. :doh:

Wanabjakd, you should stick with telling us about your personal experiences not what you have read or heard. Cos I think your results speak volumes about what you have done and are doing.

Guys guys guys. Wannabejacked knows what he is doing. He knows how to put on muscle. He has the ability to put on more muscle than the average joe. Also, his last 2 (+/-) years of training would probably count as 5 years on the normal person because he knows how to get the job done. Remember its not about nutrition its about how much drugs you are taking. Nate you did not take enough drugs thats where you went wrong.

BTW WBJKD have you taken your Antipsychotic Medication today? Remember you cannot take enough of that.

Anyway, seriously, any numbskull who uses tren on a 2nd cycle demonstrates they really dont have the ability to put on muscle so easily.

IMO and in my experience tren loses its effectiveness over time. The more you use it, the less pronounced its effects are.

My 1st and 2nd tren cycles were the best.

There is so many more better options you could have used before hitting tren.

Nates suggestion of 250mg / week would probably have made you grow but you probably still ate like a "6 year old schoolgirl".

LATER PEEPS.

[samoan_muscle]

250mg per week is fine... this is assuming it is 250mg you are taking.

i did a 8 weeks cycle for my first of pharma grade genesis (the real genesis) teston250 which was their product name for sustanon250.

i went from 76kg to 84kg and became leaner too. i had already got wat would be considered a pretty good physique (better than rakish lol) so its not like i got newbie gains mixed with gear.

after this i wasnt keen to pay $300 for 10ml of pharm gear so i switched to UG stuff for half the price but never got as good results. having said that a family member of mine recently did a first cycle and gained 10kgs... bodyfat went up a wee bit but thats just his bodytype so was expected since his eating isnt spot on he used 250mg week test e for 10 weeks was ug made oil.

ill be honest myself after my first cycle i got carried away as i was young and stupid and jumped the dosages up in my 2nd and 3rd cycles so by the 4th i was using quite alot of gear... i wish i had of maybe done another cycle on 250mg/week and raised the dosages only slightly each time... this is a much for sensible approach as iv found out ther is no rush and all it does is burn holes in your pockets for not much more benefit... but hindsights a wonderful thing huh.

smarter not harder bro.

It's discipline and maturity at the end of the day.

I was the same.

Started off kind of low (500mg sustanon pw and 25mg dbol ED) but not low as some others but jumped the doses up pretty quick and within a year was on almost 1.5g of gear a week. My skin and overall health suffered as a result.

Went from running big cycles to just staying on all year round cos PCT was a pain in the ass and didnt want to lose any muscle.

If only I could turn back time, I'd do it differently.

[severe]

My first cycle was 500mg/wk Test Enanth for 20 weeks.

Simple and managable.

I went crazy by cycle 4. over1.2g a week. I was massed out, but damn, looking at photos, I wasnt happy. burned out, if anything. Too many demands to be training like that.

I am currently only running 375/wk, and switched from heavy mass weight training to crossfit, as my cardio health was suffering. That 375 is just right in my opinion, for my body with teh current load. I have said goodbye to the triple figures. I am lighter and feeling much better holistically (once I got over the muscle size reduction...)

I haven't lost a lot, but hell, even a kg on the scales makes me shiver...

So, maybe I couldve been sweet all along on a lower 375mg/wk test enanth?

I will never know.

joshrage, in my opinion, you can't go wrong (well...) with a single aas like test enanth, for starting out.

But 5kgs can be achieved with a solid diet and good rest. aas wont give you superpowers. It will just make it happen faster if you are doing it right to start with.

chur.

[WANABJAKD]

[LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

im not sure which im laughing about...number one or number two?

Oaakay... you cant be helped, keep laughing...

exactly pull your head in. dont get me wrong im all for abit of laughter and piss taking but your not providing either all your doing is spamming the steroid section with information, alot of which is complete bullshit. its ok for u to have an opinion and it does add value but when u shoot everyone down who knows more than u and be a knob about it its kinda lame... by all means shoot ppl down and call them a moron but make sure your right and they are wrong b4 u do it.

example?

everyone seems to shoot me down, regardless of what content i deliver because they dont want to give me the acknowledgement of being correct, and thats fine, but everything i say its both politically correct(amongst the steroid communities) and scientically justified.

i dont attack anyones advice, i just provide a fresh perspective; on the other hand, everyone slams me down about recommending 400-500mg of test with 20mg of dbol. :-s