My First Cycle

[MullacT]

Shot Usual

I posted initially to see what people thought. I wanted advice and I get this bullshit abuse from long time members. Easy enough to say na bro keep natural for a couple years or get your diet sorted rather than attacking me to make yourself feel good. If your just gonna shoot people down then how are we gonna learn.

Pathetic

[rovr4on]

Im not advocating that steroid use is right for MullacT but SM has a valid point.

I DON'T know many guys who trained for 5 - 10 years naturally, hit there 'natural peak' then started using gear. I DO know alot of guys who started using a year or 2 into there training, have continued training and using for years and have amazing physiques.

On another Forum I frequent the mods have banned people from joining the Dont use Steroids brigade. If you continually shoot people down you are banned from that part of the forum. People come to the Steroid forum for Steroid use advice and continually get shot down here. Some of you guys get so caught up in the numbers game when really its not as relevant as you think. He could have said he was 110kg, but he may have been a fat ass. Would it still be okay then?

And some of you shouldnt even be giving out advice in this forum. You know even less than the original poster.

Well anyone who thinks a guy who is 6, 3 and 70odd kg should be getting on the gear is muppet.

Maybe more people wouldnt get shot down if fuking idiots who barely know how to eat and train yet would stop posting up how they want to get juicing because their not growing anymore on their 1500 calorie a day diets!!

agree with you there buddy, re roids is cheating, i take it back, just because it illegal in pretty much every sport you could consider it cheating, but in saying that in a sense creatine is a natural amino and test is also natural, so not really cheating (technically)

[rovr4on]

Shot Usual

I posted initially to see what people thought. I wanted advice and I get this bullshit abuse from long time members. Easy enough to say na bro keep natural for a couple years or get your diet sorted rather than attacking me to make yourself feel good. If your just gonna shoot people down then how are we gonna learn.

Pathetic

dude everyone is just saying get a better base, and give it some time by attempting a proper diet and training regime for awhile before you start...your welcome to use roids, its up to you. But you can get good gains without em for awhile, then go on em if you think it aint enough

[rovr4on]

Further to that, we just want you to have your bases covered first so you can make the most out of your cycle, diet workout routine etc, this comes with a bit of experience. So get that sorted, then the gains you get from your cycle will be much more impressive

[tomsammce]

Im not advocating that steroid use is right for MullacT but SM has a valid point.

I DON'T know many guys who trained for 5 - 10 years naturally, hit there 'natural peak' then started using gear. I DO know alot of guys who started using a year or 2 into there training, have continued training and using for years and have amazing physiques.

On another Forum I frequent the mods have banned people from joining the Dont use Steroids brigade. If you continually shoot people down you are banned from that part of the forum. People come to the Steroid forum for Steroid use advice and continually get shot down here. Some of you guys get so caught up in the numbers game when really its not as relevant as you think. He could have said he was 110kg, but he may have been a fat ass. Would it still be okay then?

And some of you shouldnt even be giving out advice in this forum. You know even less than the original poster.

:roll: why dont u give him some advice then?

there is abit more to it than just giving him advice. firstly what advice is good for him, whats good for one person might not be good for another... nutrition and training are two of quite a few key elements to reaching the physique you want. without knowledge of these you can very easily get nothing but water retention and fucked up natural test level at the end of it.

he pm'ed me asking for shit. so i know there is conflict of interest in some of your arguements as there might be a few hundred dollars at stake for you all.

all im saying is education on nutrtion and training is needed imo before starting a cycle (its a no brainer) and yeah a few years in the gym will def help you. i started my steroid use when i was 76ish kg and 19 years old

[Usual Suspect]

Agree with you Tomo. I just hate how people get attacked so hard for wanting to find out about gear in the first place then you go over to the 'favourite drug' topic and its all a good to go out snorting cocaine every weekend. Apples and Oranges I know but still....

I have already written a relevant guide for beginners here

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10301

[rovr4on]

Agree with you Tomo. I just hate how people get attacked so hard for wanting to find out about gear in the first place then you go over to the 'favourite drug' topic and its all a good to go out snorting cocaine every weekend. Apples and Oranges I know but still....

I have already written a relevant guide for beginners here

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10301

I just don't see any comments where he got attacked??? Everyone just said their recommendations. Only attack was Tomo saying he a fucking joke lol

[tomsammce]

then you go over to the 'favourite drug' topic and its all a good to go out snorting cocaine every weekend.

LMAO - too true... though your not really looking to get anything good out of cocaine after a couple of hours or what have you. if i had some coke sitting in front of me i would prob do about 10min googling to find wat dangers to my life it had then id go hard wake up next morning after a one off and forget it... with steroids its more long term and a bit different.... it was just an example tho i know.

iv seen so many people who think its magic use a decent dose and get no where or do a big cycle(s) only a year down the track they are weaker than what they were pre cycle... lets be realistic its not good or healthy for you to take steroids, it may not be bad for you short term... but its sure as hell not doing you any real favours. so i dont understand why someone would want to use (especially when starting out) when they have no real idea of training and nutrition which along with the obvious one which is sleep are the most important things to grow and without them you wont grow.

so for someone like this guy who says he cant gain muscle the obvious thing that springs to my mind would be diet/nutrition part of the forum. and i look at this thread along with his other ones and think if he doesnt have the initiative or common sense to realise that himself then advice in this part of the forum is worthless.

[justhell]

Justhell Isnt the general consensus to run first cycle for 12 weeks seeing as your shutting yout test down anyway best to make the most of it???

Also 8weeks only gives you a couple or three weeks with maximum amount of test in the system not very long to maximize gains???Your thoughts mate?

Hey TT,yeep your are right for sure,i have just recently seen somthing about doin 8 week cycles(not sure where i saw it),but it was saying running shorter cycles and getting less sides.

i thought that would be more suited to a first cycle.

shit this thread has gone hard today,

a cycle would be a waste on Mullact at his height & weight for now,

like others say "get more of a base first"max out the strength you have now, first!

[WANABJAKD]

wow this thread is turning ugly real fast...if he wants to use aas, i say let him; the only thing he has to lose is his money. experience doenst mean anything at all; the only thing that matters is exercise and nutritional knowledge. another thing i hate hearing is how people say it all comes down to diet...f*ck ive seen some guys grow off eating garbage and that aside a perfect diet mean too much either, anyone can clean up their shit.

the only thing that matters in terms of building muscle is hard work in the gym and ONLY that. why? because thats the only variable that is inconsistent. you could govern your diet, drug administration and rest/sleep patterns but you govern your workouts...some of that does come down to experience but most of it comes down to studying the human anatomy and its mechanism. Its just a matter of applying that into the gym and thats where the experience comes in. this is what separates a monkey to a real bodybuilder.

cycle advice:

-you could run your cycle for 14 weeks if you really wanted to

-dbol shouldnt be run for more than 4-6 weeks unless you do get frequent bloodwork of your liver function along side taking some heavy hepatotoxicity preventative measures.

-nolva only for your pct is fine though id personally run it for four or five weeks; however, three would suffice, two would not be ideal.

[WANABJAKD]

wow this thread is turning ugly real fast...if he wants to use aas, i say let him; the only thing he has to lose is his money. experience doenst mean anything at all; the only thing that matters is exercise and nutritional knowledge. another thing i hate hearing is how people say it all comes down to diet...f*ck ive seen some guys grow off eating garbage and that aside a perfect diet mean too much either, anyone can clean up their shit.

the only thing that matters in terms of building muscle is hard work in the gym and ONLY that. why? because thats the only variable that is inconsistent. you could govern your diet, drug administration and rest/sleep patterns but you govern your workouts...some of that does come down to experience but most of it comes down to studying the human anatomy and its mechanism. Its just a matter of applying that into the gym and thats where the experience comes in. this is what separates a monkey to a real bodybuilder.

cycle advice:

-you could run your cycle for 14 weeks if you really wanted to

-dbol shouldnt be run for more than 4-6 weeks unless you do get frequent bloodwork of your liver function along side taking some heavy hepatotoxicity preventative measures.

-nolva only for your pct is fine though id personally run it for four or five weeks; however, three would suffice, two would not be ideal.

[rovr4on]

has anyone ever heard of or know anyone who hasn't got reasonable gains without lots of food and good workouts??

[rovr4on]

another thing i hate hearing is how people say it all comes down to diet...f*ck ive seen some guys grow off eating garbage and that aside a perfect diet mean too much either, anyone can clean up their shit.

but he said without AAS he wasn't growing, it may or may not matter what he eats, but the fact is that he wasn't eating enough hence he wasn't growing, rather the than the fact 'what' he was eating!!

[WANABJAKD]

another thing i hate hearing is how people say it all comes down to diet...f*ck ive seen some guys grow off eating garbage and that aside a perfect diet mean too much either, anyone can clean up their shit.

but he said without AAS he wasn't growing, it may or may not matter what he eats, but the fact is that he wasn't eating enough hence he wasn't growing, rather the than the fact 'what' he was eating!!

i was refering to gear users.

Good to see NZBB's Steroid Committee Experts are still pushing their "BUILD A GOOD BASE 1st BRO" & "GET TO YOUR GENETIC LIMIT 1st" bullshit.

WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH...

lmao.

[thatwaslight]

IMO your all missing the point its not about building a natural base wah wah wah, it's about having the the right discipline and knowledge to be able train and eat to gain a reasonable amount muscle without steroids...if you cant do that without steroids then all you will get from a cycle is acne shutdown and water retention.

I have seen cases where people get on not knowing the basics and end up smaller than they were before cycle due to the shutdown lol

[Yeah-Buddy]

IMO your all missing the point its not about building a natural base wah wah wah, it's about having the the right discipline and knowledge to be able train and eat to gain a reasonable amount muscle without steroids...if you cant do that without steroids then all you will get from a cycle is acne shutdown and water retention.

I have seen cases where people get on not knowing the basics and end up smaller than they were before cycle due to the shutdown lol

Generally speaking when your spending the time building a solid base, that is time spent learning that discipline and knowledge of how to eat and train.

If you dont know how to eat and train to grow naturally, your not going to suddenly start growing when you start the gear.

[thatwaslight]

IMO your all missing the point its not about building a natural base wah wah wah, it's about having the the right discipline and knowledge to be able train and eat to gain a reasonable amount muscle without steroids...if you cant do that without steroids then all you will get from a cycle is acne shutdown and water retention.

I have seen cases where people get on not knowing the basics and end up smaller than they were before cycle due to the shutdown lol

Generally speaking when your spending the time building a solid base, that is time spent learning that discipline and knowledge of how to eat and train.

If you dont know how to eat and train to grow naturally, your not going to suddenly start growing when you start the gear.

thats pretty much what i ment lol

[Android]

Good to see NZBB's Steroid Committee Experts are still pushing their "BUILD A GOOD BASE 1st BRO" & "GET TO YOUR GENETIC LIMIT 1st" bullshit.

WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH...

Oh well might as well chip in here.

SM makes a good point here

My first cycle was at 76kg and I'm 6' tall, hardly my genetic limit.

I was impatient for gains and was an awesome cycle, took a conservative amount and never felt any sides despite no PCT.

Got to 84kg and over another 4 yrs went up to 99kg unassisted/naturally before trying again.

No big deal all it gave me was a thirst or passion for bodybuilding and eating and studying nutrition, all useful side effects imo

I wasn't 19 tho but I wish I had exposure to first cycle back them cause I brought every mag, drank every shake u could buy, and popped loads of liver tablets cause Arnie said that's what he fuckn did and he lied and I still have issues but my shrink says I'll get over it soon...point is I'd do it again but earlier

[Optimass]

Diet, training ... WAH WAH WAH. Lets face it, if you are not growing naturally, chances are you probably wont on the gear either. (agree with YB :nod: )

Lots of interesting information in this thread ...

I did train for atleast 5 years naturally - and I did gain 7kg off 40ml of vet grade winnie in a 4 week period. (Natural base was probably a very good advantage but my genetics ultimately provided the bulk). Was my test pilot cycle - descided it was the lowest risk product to see what it would do - no sciece to it at all

IMO @ 76kg you haven't trained hard enough or eaten enough to get some good gains.

Mullact, dont rush into it, doesnt take as long as you'd think, get the good base man, I'm 5"10 80kgs and am growing quite nicely natural 6 months ago I was 72kgs, just eat lots and train hard. Your height you can get to 90kgs of muscle within a year if you train hard. Take some creatine lol

Unlikely to gain 14kg of pure muscle in a yr naturally even when first starting out. Your point is valid but probably too optimistic.

I have put on 8kgs in 6 months and I would say less than a kg in fat. In saying that they are coming slower these days, slowly but surely. I would definitely say 10kgs is more realistic.

The reality is that newbie gains of 10kg in a matter of weeks are all good until you stop training and your 10kg of muscle dissappear ... :pfft:

Building muscle (actual muscle) takes years and years.

Agree with SM in that he shouldn't be cut down for asking the question but pseu is right, general consensus is to take it slowly.

[Chemo]

I hope this doesn't seem like reckless advice....but:

I never got anywhere near my genetic limit, and I am not experienced at all with 2 years of solid weights training and good nutrition and a year before that as a complete newb.

I went on a simple muscle tech cycle 8) and it threw me a few years into the future.

So if you have experienced success in changing yourself so far, then you should have a chance to continue that trend on gear, and it could be an option for you.

But to back what most are saying, gotta get the maths, mindset and habits right before hand, plan it out, and you better fkn work hard for those gains, if your enhanced your workouts should be batshit crazy :twisted: :twisted: thats the most enjoyable thing

[severe]

whos told you all this?

considering 2 days ago u were pm-ing me asking whats good to take ("enanthate... whats enathate?".. lol) and asking what kinda needles u need and can u get a 500ml syringes...

half a litre pinning now? damn, either it really weak, or Judge Dread is on the scene!

[tomsammce]

wow this thread is turning ugly real fast...if he wants to use aas, i say let him; the only thing he has to lose is his money. experience doenst mean anything at all; the only thing that matters is exercise and nutritional knowledge. another thing i hate hearing is how people say it all comes down to diet...f*ck ive seen some guys grow off eating garbage and that aside a perfect diet mean too much either, anyone can clean up their shit.

the only thing that matters in terms of building muscle is hard work in the gym and ONLY that. why? because thats the only variable that is inconsistent. you could govern your diet, drug administration and rest/sleep patterns but you govern your workouts...some of that does come down to experience but most of it comes down to studying the human anatomy and its mechanism. Its just a matter of applying that into the gym and thats where the experience comes in. this is what separates a monkey to a real bodybuilder.

cycle advice:

-you could run your cycle for 14 weeks if you really wanted to

-dbol shouldnt be run for more than 4-6 weeks unless you do get frequent bloodwork of your liver function along side taking some heavy hepatotoxicity preventative measures.

-nolva only for your pct is fine though id personally run it for four or five weeks; however, three would suffice, two would not be ideal.

why would someone not want to prove to THEMSELVES that they are able to eat well and train hard before using steroids? if they cant do it before... what happens after when they are feeling tired, cant be fucked training and

mentally arnt as strong, focused or hungry as they were while on the cycle?

we all know when u come off u dnt feel as good and are a little bit head fucked from not being as strong as u were a month ago or as full as you were.

by the way... dbol can be run for 10 or even 20 weeks saftley... this 4-6 weeks crap gets flinged around on forums like shit hitting a fucking fan lol.... its dose dependant.

[tomsammce]

i was also 76kg when i started.

[samoan_muscle]

IMO your all missing the point its not about building a natural base wah wah wah, it's about having the the right discipline and knowledge to be able train and eat to gain a reasonable amount muscle without steroids...if you cant do that without steroids then all you will get from a cycle is acne shutdown and water retention.

I have seen cases where people get on not knowing the basics and end up smaller than they were before cycle due to the shutdown lol

Generally speaking when your spending the time building a solid base, that is time spent learning that discipline and knowledge of how to eat and train.

If you dont know how to eat and train to grow naturally, your not going to suddenly start growing when you start the gear.

I agree with TWL.

Yeahbuddy what constitutes a solid base? Everyone's perception of a "solid base" is going to be different...

Not everyone jumps on the juice because they want to look like or be a bodybuilder. Some are genuine hard-gainers and others just plain lazy cunts, both of which just want to add muscle and develop slightly above average physiques.

At the end of the day its their decision. Their reasons for getting on the juice is no-one elses business and no-one has the right to judge.

IMO if you can be bothered trying to deter the "lazy c*nt" type, by all means state your case. However if theyre not interested in listening or taking your advice, let them be. Dont harp on like a broken record...WAH WAH WAH WAH...

If I was to wait til I'd pushed myself to my genetic limit, I probably wouldnt have jumped on the juice until I was 30+. I'm now 25.

Would have been around 95kgs when I started.

[samoan_muscle]

IMO your all missing the point its not about building a natural base wah wah wah, it's about having the the right discipline and knowledge to be able train and eat to gain a reasonable amount muscle without steroids...if you cant do that without steroids then all you will get from a cycle is acne shutdown and water retention.

I have seen cases where people get on not knowing the basics and end up smaller than they were before cycle due to the shutdown lol

Generally speaking when your spending the time building a solid base, that is time spent learning that discipline and knowledge of how to eat and train.

If you dont know how to eat and train to grow naturally, your not going to suddenly start growing when you start the gear.

I agree with TWL.

Yeahbuddy what constitutes a solid base? Everyone's perception of a "solid base" is going to be different...

Not everyone jumps on the juice because they want to look like or be a bodybuilder. Some are genuine hard-gainers and others just plain lazy cunts, both of which just want to add muscle and develop slightly above average physiques.

At the end of the day its their decision. Their reasons for getting on the juice is no-one elses business and no-one has the right to judge.

IMO if you can be bothered trying to deter the "lazy c*nt" type, by all means state your case. However if theyre not interested in listening or taking your advice, let them be. Dont harp on like a broken record...WAH WAH WAH WAH...

If I was to wait til I'd pushed myself to my genetic limit, I probably wouldnt have jumped on the juice until I was 30+. I'm now 25.

Would have been around 95kgs when I started.

WANABJAKD / EMC is a classic example of this.

Do you guys remember when he came on as EMC saying that he bad water retention or something asking for advice about his blood tests and telling us he was gonna jump on some gear?

Turns out he was just a fat c*nt - you all warned him. He didnt listen to any of you guys and jumped on the juice (from memory i think he's done 3 or 4 cycles in the last 6 months) and now has come back as the NZBB steroid guru.

See, there's no detering idiots like him.

Dont waste your time.