This years Novice Rule Change

[tomsammce]

Can you compete as a novice at BBro?

Anyone wanna answer this? I'd like to know, too. Even though, I'm not sure if being a novice in Sub juniors even matters...

YES!!! you can. dont u read the forum, this is what a number of us were planning on doing.

[Shutupandsquat]

With comments that long... No, I don't.

[tomsammce]

With comments that long... No, I don't.

what? yes u can do it as novice... so theres no excuses for you. apart from ur fingers lol

[Shutupandsquat]

I'll just break up with my girlfriend to get my grip up to speed. Hahaha. Eh, f*ck excuses, I'll just train like I do. Grip has already improved about 10 kg on deads over 3 weeks.

[drizzt]

People are concerned about gear being detected, but that's the obvious one. Don't you also need to watch the "smaller", more innocuous stuff such as DMAA that turn up in a lot of supps? Be careful what you consume in the week leading up to the comp? This is what would get to me personally if I had to sign up to the assoc, having to watch the supplement intake in particular. What can I take, when do I have to stop taking it (are there random tests - might I get busted for training on Jack3d?), if I get banned does it affect my rugby playing etc etc...

Also, let me point out I'm not at all against drug testing - just this was the advantage of being a Novice, with the tradeoff that you couldn't set records or win anything. Just being able to take part is what I'm after (right now anyway - might eventually want to sign up!) RM and VP's post covered this bit nicely so I won't go too far into it :nod: But as these two point out, I'm sure it will scare a lot of people off who may have otherwise wanted to give it a second try, but find they have to sign up to do so - even if purely because of the sign-up fee involved.

To just give it one go and then have to sign up, as a part-timer I'm not sure it appeals to me so much anymore with the extra responsibility that brings.

[Old Bull]

PA Powerlifting Australia has no novice status or competitions, you join your Local and National Association from the get go.

The CDPA had concerns about the Novice Status for ex registered lifters, this we put forward to the NEC, who could compete once a year as a Novice, our view was a Novice is someone who has not lifted before. Case in point the BBro we had first time lifters Novice competing against ex registered lifters but we still had to class them as Novice lifters and some wore equipment. To us it was not fair on the real novice lifters but that was the way the wording was this was for Drug Testing purposes as the BBro is a sanctioned competition. The concern was the lifters were using this as a way around the drug testing rules.

We changed our constitution to stop lifters registering, doing the CD Champs breaking the records but not going any further North Islands Nationals where testing was a guarantee. The testing procedure prior 2008 there was a pool of lifters, elite level who were on the OCT Out of Contest testing programme no positives tests going back 9 or 10 years. Drug free sport changed its tactics and started testing peripheral lifters novice lifters those with one or two comps, they started getting results. The lifters getting positives were not in the sport for the long term but tests are tests and results are results. IPF allows nations 4 positives then you can be thrown out for 1 or 2 years. NZPF came pretty close last year with a few BBs being caught up in this new testing regime.

Wada Drug Free sport patrol the Forums we know that for a fact as we have been targeted, 2009 BBro we were accused of starting a rival federation, the chatter that goes on forums gets these organisations into a spin they see members who talk of using the Special K wanting to do Novice comps so they target them. Last years BBro a novice comp being tested because of such chatter. They could not test the Novice lifters which annoyed them this is why we stood our ground and had to differentiate all the lifters.

NZPF makes nothing from the Novice Comps it is the local association that does, the 3 comp thing was a way of getting lifters interested, joining was a way of paying back the local associations for their time and effort putting these competitions on.

We hold 3 Novice comps a year 27 odd novice lifters at the BBro, 2 joined but they had visions of joining the CDPA. WBOP had 34 at a comp late last year, none joined. To a lot of people it is a novelty like jumping out of a plane not too many want to sky dive as a sport. Same with BB a lot do 1 comp and stop.

There are ways of still lifting gym comps is one way these, it can be run but if this comp is used as a qualifier in any way then things change, also I think joining the local association and not the National body is another way you can only do the Novice comps but not the regional’s. But that may only get you 2 comps as most like us you have join the Federation on your 3rd.

There is heaps of support out there as most would know PLs are pretty easy to talk to and learn from.

There are choices in all aspects of life our sport just happens to have a lot of consequences for those who do not want to play by the rules.

Bit of a rabble but maybe something of interest in there

[Tonka]

Ive been reading the posts and its created some good discussion. Personally I like the new rule because it affirms the NZPF's staunch attitude that we promote a drugfree sporting environment. As OB mentioned in his reply, for the NZPF it was an urgent matter that required the tying up loose ends. However, I do see the arguement that many have voiced on the thread. Is the "one novice rule" enough to entice a newbie to join up? In that one comp, I believe it can result in three ways for a newbie:

1. An absolute failure because they bombed

2. An ok experience because they made a few lifts but missed the ones they wanted because of technical rules

or 3. They nailed it and had a great day

In the times that I have observed or helped out at novice meets Im pretty confident in saying that most newbies will either have a number 1 or 2 result and is this experience enough for a newbie to want to lift in more comps let alone join up? Probably not!! But those that are keen to lift will do so anyway and join the NZPF regardless.

There are common mistakes I see newbies making at novice comps, many come in under prepared - mentally/physically/equipment wise and unaware of the technical rules. Some think its just another gym lift but soon realise very quickly that its not. I can only encourage those that are thinking about lifting in future to make sure they do their research on these things:

- What clothing/footwear can I wear

- Legal wraps/belt

- Prepare mentally for the expected and the unexpected

- Know the technical rules, if you dont ASK someone who does.

- Apply the correct technique in your training - build good habits from the start...dont try and leave it for on the day because you might see red lights instead of white.

As OB mentioned, many of the folk in the NZPF are very approachable and easy going so dont be afraid to ask. The Doc, OB and Steak are owner/operators of 3 of the best strength training facilites in NZ and they'd be more than willing to assist anyone interested in giving it a go...and me included as well. Remember, PLers have a common bond with our bodybuilding brothers(and sisters) and that is we like shifting iron. I know we would rather see novice lifters getting white lights and hitting PR's and perhaps...joining up.

Stay strong!

[Viking Power]

Atfer a nights rest I have being in two minds, I thought instead off complaining about what can't be fixed I will help the cause and I will join up NZPF / IPF and become a registered lifter and help the Novice lifter where and when I can I did want to build on my total first but stuff it I guess it will happen as Simon said to me over the weekend you can't join up wanting to be an unstoppable champ if that's how you think you probably won't join up I guess that's true ...

Can't talk the talk without walking the walk.......so VP is in....

[steak]

:clap:

[tinytraps]

Good points raised in the posts above. When I did the BBro I was classed as a novice lifter (it was my first comp). It was an awesome entry into the sport even though I bombed, and that experience got me hooked on the PL bug and made me sign up. From that, I beleive its up to the event organizers to provide the best experience for all the new comers in their first event to make them want to experience it again (OB did an amazing job of running the comp, I can see why its getting so popular! :clap: ) . CBC, powerhouse and eastside are doing a good job getting new lifters into the sport and keeping them.

along the lines of what VP has said in previous posts, the APA should take a more active role in promoting the sport. Novice workshops (and not like the one that was held last year) where all the novice guys get together and have a day of learning technique (actually by doing the lifts not just being told :? ) being taught the commands and how to train the lifts is a good idea. Having something along the lines of the Underground Strength sessions that EliteFts holds would be perfect. Getting a bunch of experienced lifters training with a bunch of new lifters, just like the Mayday lift that was held at CBC last year, will set an impression on the greenhorns that will transfer into more signups!

[steak]

I am now faced with telling a couple of lifters that to compete any further they will have to fork out $80 plus entry fees for the years comps. Auck Champs is $60 for the event along with the $80. Combined with gym fees, wraps, belt, possibly suits and shirt, travel and other related costs it is still a pretty reasonably priced sport to compete in. For some young people however these costs can be a bit much and as much as Id like to help out, the many 1000s of $ sitting on the gym floor and in the the landlords account dont permit that ....well at this stage anyhow...something I would consider later on though.

Being able to hone your skills in the novice enviroment too was a bonus rather than perhaps as Tonka says bombing, or getting pinged on tech faults in your first lift and then having to go right into a registered position without a good skill base. This, from what I saw at the last few novice events, will certainly lower the professionalism on the platform with lifters missing openers, shonky form and poor ettiquete.

Im afraid Im having to sit on the fence on this issue so far...drug free is great and should be strived for but unprepared lifters ballsing it up at regional level or not being able to commit financially will lower the tone and have less lifters at these events...dont we struggle to get attendence anyway?

Id gladly get involved in coaching clinics...Ive attended every one there has been in my region in the past 2 years, hosted 1 and brought and encourage others to attend as well and typically these are not "packed house" situations. It is a big ask to get the sports best lifters to take time away from family or work to spend a day training and coaching novice lifters and in many cases logistically hard with many being out of the larger citys. Sadly some lifters are not getting good coaching and these standout comp after comp with dropping warm ups, bombing out, reoccuring tech faults some even getting worse!

Do we really want to see/show this at a Regional Championship...

[Tonka]

No we dont Steak, the NZPF now that they have shown their hand with this ruling need to perhaps come up with a way to encourage and coach novice lifters to learn and understand the finer details about the sport even before they enter their first comp. Reading an information pack isnt enough. I think the the only way this can be done is having more coaching/training clinics like the Mayday lifts we had last year. It was low key but the atmosphere was one of unity no matter what experience level you brought to the gym that day. The common bond being we just wanted to SFW (excuse the pun), questions were asked and knowledge was passed on and all this was done while performing the lifts...ie we were just training. In my opinion this is the ideal way of learning.

As for the reality now of informing some of your stable that they need to join the Federation, do it. In todays times it is expensive but the chance now for them to continue to compete at all levels (novice,provincial and national) is now available to them. The experience factor will continue no matter what level they lift at but the one advantage your stable have as opposed to other newbies now in the same situation is they have been taught and trained well. The videos coming out of CBC that I see speak for themselves. They have nothing to fear when competing at any competition, for them its just a matter now of adding more weight to their attempts :clap:

[Old Bull]

Hi Steak,

Not to put downer on what you have said as you raise good points this is the CDPA Perspective

It took Phil Townley 2 years before he could compete in our Regional Champs in those days it was a Black total to Qualify,

82.5kgs= 510kgs

90kgs = 540kgs

100kgs= 565kgs

110kgs= 590kgs

125kgs+= 625kgs

Now you need to post a good total to enter our regionals for example Maria and Zane they had to travel to Auckland on the weekend to Qualify for the April Comp they will be away for our Novice this weekend. She is 2 time World Champion, Derek Pomana how many open worlds has he won he still has to Qualify.

Our CD Champs to us is the biggest comp a lot of our lifters will go to and something that should be earned not just given. well overe half of those at the CDs will get the Qualifying totals for the Nationals, and all will travel though. Aucks had heaps at their Regionals but not many turned up at the Nationals in Ch CH. A lot of our novice lifters will not do the CDs until their 2nd year just to get their numbers respectable.

We will host Gym lifts to bring certain lifters through after this ruling but as you know yourself you put time and effort into people then they just let you down. Not everyone has the mental toughness to keep at this game for the long haul. You know what is needed in competition so you push that at CBC, it is drumed into everyone here.

We make sure lifters coming to our comps know the Rules (email the rules out) we instruct them prior to lifting and some one is on hand to reinforce this as they step on the platform. If some one is FOB and we have one of our lifters availble I will assign him to 1 or 2 novice lifters to help them through.

NZPF on a whole wants the standard of lifting increased at the Nationals this by way of a better Calibre of lifters that is eveident in the totals that are coming through. This also by grouping all age lifters into the Open Class to create more competition as a few Masters can foot it with the Opens lifters.

Lifters need to know Training to Train 18 months, Training to Compete 18 Months, Training to Win 18 months

[steak]

Not to put downer on what you have said as you raise good points

You havent ruined my day yet bro

I think having to meet a qualifying standard is a great thing...hence my delay in getting back on the platform as I wont be happy till Im posting a total I think is worthy. These are my goals not anyone elses. Getting young people to think like this however is another story...many lack the hardcore attitude you and I share and I can appreciate they are growing up in different times. Participation, dedication and committment are not always prevelant traits :roll:

I would have coached over 40 lifters in the past year in the 3 lifts, spending I guess a couple or 3 hours of my time with each but yet I struggle to put a team of 5-6 together. If it wasnt for the ability to give it a go and maybe another go a few months later on so they could test the waters, compete in the contest enviroment and then go away and make improvements or progress into equipment Im not sure how many would have attempted the first novice comp.

You mention that the NZPF want the calibre of lifting to improve well then surely they are willing to put something back into the sport for new lifters coming through. Fark...I tried to get some kind of affiliation to the NZPF so I could apply for funding as a non profit society to promote and grow the sport in our area and was told they would not affiliate a club...non profit or not Fark thats helpful! ....and to be honest this has restricted funding channels we can successfully pursue. What will the NZPF put into the growth of the sport?

I can just see at a regional comp, a new lifter without sufficent coaching or guidance but yet wanting to be competitive, rock up to bench in his new shirt and complete miss after miss, possibly getting injured in the process.Thats if he made it past the squats in his new suit he never got taught how to groove or lift in. This happens pretty regularly from what Ive seen in novice comps...cast your mind back to the WBOP novice we were both at ....a 180kg bench dropped square on that dudes chest..lucky to escape having a rib driven through an internal organ. :roll: Last weekend I watched guys swapping a katana like it was a tshirt only to miss lifts at 80kg! Im sure the NZPF would like a better standard than that.....Im sure spectators want a better show than that or perhaps the NZPF are willing to be faced with low attendence (crowd and lifters) and the same old faces rocking up each year?

My flip side is yelling at me now ...tell them all (novices) to HTFU and just do it. Do I have to be prepared to lose some/most to keep a core few and hope in earnest that 1-2 continue on with the sport...I 'spose it will weed out the wannabes and those that cant realise any level of potentional early on in 1 novice comp...its a minority sport after all....destined to stay that way?

Still sitting on the fence here :roll:

[ThePman]

This is how all the multi-ply feds got started back at home

[Tonka]

This is how all the multi-ply feds got started back at home

I hope it doesnt happen here bro, NZ is far too small to field another fed.

[Riccardo]

I don't see how this is going to prevent doping within the sport? sure you wont have as many juiced up guys at novice comps having a go for shits and gigs but who cares if they can't set records or win titles? Is it just that people don't want AAS associated with the sport in any way? People who want to use AAS will either just wait till they are unregistered, use then sign up again or previous users of AAS can still register and test negative providing enough time has elapsed that AAS won't be detected in a drugs test. I guess what I'm saying is the hardcore guys intentionaly using to try and cheat will still always be there.

Personally I think the solution is a seperate untested federation for guys who wan't to use AAS. I think that would decrease the number of guys on the gear in the NZPF. Most guys who get caught in novice comps (if you were to test novices) would be guys like Tom who just want to go along and lift to test their strength against other lifters and have fun, not to go and steal someones national title or NZ record another recent example would be Khalid. Another federation would provide somewhere for these guys to go but I suppose thats up to them to do.