Outer Sweep Development

[blahman]

I am on my first body building journey aiming competition end of the year. My leg routine is below

Squats

Squats below parallel

bar x10

60x10

100x8

110x8

120x8

120x8

140x5

Leg press

200x10 warmup set

280x10

320x8

360x8

400x8

Quad XTN

70x8x4

Ham curl

55x8x5

Stiff leg Deads

bar x 20

60x10

80x10

90x8

100x8

At the moment my legs are growing but there is no sign of the coveted tear shape that I am eventually aiming for. So my question is is this totally a genetic thing or are there tricks that can help this along?

[Shutupandsquat]

I am on my first body building journey aiming competition end of the year. My leg routine is below

Squats

Squats below parallel

bar x10

60x10

100x8

110x8

120x8

120x8

140x5

Leg press

200x10 warmup set

280x10

320x8

360x8

400x8

Quad XTN

70x8x4

Ham curl

55x8x5

Stiff leg Deads

bar x 20

60x10

80x10

90x8

100x8

At the moment my legs are growing but there is no sign of the coveted tear shape that I am eventually aiming for. So my question is is this totally a genetic thing or are there tricks that can help this along?

It's all in training. Genetics play a role, but training and dieting (everyone will have a fit at me if I don't throw that in) will get you there for all the muscle groups. My question is; Why do a warm up set on leg press if the blood is already in your quads from squats?

[train hard]

i have never seen "small" quads that have outer sweep maybe some people have but i have not.

what im trying to say is if you want outer sweep concentrte on getting those quads big first and all the quad muscles should grow togeather once they have enough mass and are lean enough you should see abit off sweep . there are specific exercises you can do like hack squats and front squats with a slightly narrow stance that can hit that area but still if they aint big enough you wont see sweep

[Android]

Would be interested in hearing Michael K's opinion hear and what worked for him...anyone else keen to hear what he has to say?

If you look at his 2007 photos vs his Aussie Grand Prix he added substantial shape to his Quads over 3 years

[michaelk]

Would be interested in hearing Michael K's opinion hear and what worked for him...anyone else keen to hear what he has to say?

If you look at his 2007 photos vs his Aussie Grand Prix he added substantial shape to his Quads over 3 years

mate I'm looking for tips too, my sweep sucks

[HumanPerformance]

Posted this on the subject a while back,hope it helps.

Basically when trying to build your inner and outer thigh development you best bet is to go for the big compound movements but to change your foot placement and or direction they are facing. Basically the old adage of "in for outer and out for inner" applies here. So as musclenz stated performing adductor squats with your feet wide apart and facing on a 45 degree angle works more into the adductor longus and gracilis, as well as semimembranosus muscle. Yes the semimem is part of the hamstring but it is this part of the leg that is crucial for the appearence of "width" to the inside of the thigh. In fact alot of the size of the thigh when viewed from the front is due to your hamsrtings poking through from the back (when looking at the inside of the thigh). So all forms of squats, leg presses etc with your feet wide apart and on a 45 degree angle will hit your inner thigh.

There is alot to be said for sideways lunges as well in reguard to working these muscles. In fact a NZ competitor who had some of the best all round leg developement I have seen told me it was due to all the "lunges around the world" (let me know if you need these explained) he used to do.

Conversely when trying to add size to the outside of the thigh a very narrow stance should be employed i.e feet 12 inches apart or even almost touching on movements like leg press and hack squats. This foot placement hits the lateralis, tenser faciae late and abductor muscles alot harder than normal.

There is the consideration of employing abductor and adductor isolation movements with a cable or aductor machines (female gym favorites), and I rememeber Mark Rianbow used to swear by the womens adductor machine for his own leg developement. But over the years I have not been able to increase the size of any of my clients inner or outer thigh muscles using these types of movements. I think this is due to the load simply being to insufficient to stimulate any form of meaningfull growth. I have found heavy compounds to be much more productive.

[Android]

Mike yours are good by NZ non-Pro standards and they improve so that's all that matters.

Cheers HP no surprises there but good to reiterate, squats, lunges, presses and varying feet positions.

The only things left i can think of are volume, intensity, splitting out hammy workout, rest day after leg workout in conjunction with biggest feed of the week, dbol pumps which must stretch fascia somewhat, ... anything else left that can influence more growth?

[Shutupandsquat]

Mike yours are good by NZ non-Pro standards and they improve so that's all that matters.

But he IS pro so you know...

What do you do for your quad training Mike?

[michaelk]

I play hopscotch and use a pogo stick

don't tell everyone my secret or they'll all start growing;-)

[Shutupandsquat]

I play hopscotch and use a pogo stick

don't tell everyone my secret or they'll all start growing;-)

So that's why you aren't growing. Maybe you should try running on the treadmill and using the bike machines. My friend doesn't train legs because he does that (I didn't want to be friends with him after he told me that).

[Android]

I play hopscotch and use a pogo stick

don't tell everyone my secret or they'll all start growing;-)

Try lunging with your pogo stick, might help

WTF, Mikes a Pro?!!

[Shutupandsquat]

I play hopscotch and use a pogo stick

don't tell everyone my secret or they'll all start growing;-)

Try lunging with your pogo stick, might help

WTF, Mikes a Pro?!!

It doesn't say Michaelk with IFBB Pro under his name for shits and gigs

[michaelk]

Turns out it wasn't a pogo stick, it was my legs

But to answer the question properly this is a few things that I have learned over the past few years, actually I feel I've learned more since competing at the Pro level than the years of amateur competition before that. May have been through necessity based on knowing who I was standing next to and trying to bring myself up to a competitive level.

I made great progress initially after turning pro, basically the same stuff as always, lots of squats (mostly heavy) and leg pressing (usually higher rep) with hack squatting thrown in. I was training at Just Workout in Takapuna then and all three pieces were pretty close together, and fortunately close to a big roller door.

I don't know if there is a gym on the shore other than JW that posseses all three pieces?

When I leg press I start with my feet high and wide for the first set, then high and narrow, then low wide and then low narrow. Further sets and usually low mid width.

Squatting has to be to parallel, for me thats when my hams hit my calves and so going lower doesn't fit - I've seen recent footage of Dexter and Hidetada going to slightly above parallel - I'm a HUGE fan of Hide's physique particularly his legs.

After a knee injury in 2008 that stopped me for about 6 months it was back to the drawing board. I sustained a slight tear to the patella tendon just below the tear drop, likely caused by very heavy 45 degree leg presses. At one time at BTS me and Paul were pressing about 11 plates per side, with no knee wraps, and a combination of a slippery floor, unbolted Leg Press and power, with each rep the whole machine was sliding forward about an inch- was quite funny, exciting and motivating to see how far we could move it.

After rehab which involved slow negatives with only 20k on the leg press, I started at Harbour Fitness. The Hoist Leg Press was a godsend for my knee injury as it enabled leg pressing with little to no noticable strain on the knee joint. It really highlighted to me how much leveraging is done on a 45 degree leg press from the hips and knees and that weight moved is not totally moved by the quad muscle.

The downside to the Hoist is that it primarly targets the mid/upper quad and so I dropped noticable size in the lower outer quad, which I could ill afford to lose, as I don't pack a lot of size or muscle cells there.

I consider my leg shape as similar to Gustavo or Kamali (albiet smaller) in that they also don't have great lower quad sweep but fill the mass out with inner thigh and adductors.

(I received some very complementary remarks about my adductor size when I was doing the Aus Pro X, which was well timed as Kai Green was tanning up not 5 feet in front of me.......and no kidding the act of rubbing the tan on was causing veins in his quads to pop and legs to start pumping up. VERY FREAKY.)

So the recent lessons learned are that Leg Pressing is best at 12 reps or more, keep the feet close is good, keeping them low is more important, the higher they are the more ham activation occurs.

High rep squatting (above 15 reps) is just cardio - to me, I tried one of those 50 rep sets and really my legs didn't feel that much but my core and my lungs were dying. Having said that, a drop set is a different kettle of fish, effectivly it is more like 3 or 4 single sets of 4-10 done back to back and then my quads do feel it.

The important thing I'd have to say is about how hard you train, I read a bit of the stuff written on here and to be honest a lot of the science stuff either goes over my head or makes me feel like I'm not researching enough.

What works for one may not necessarily work for another, I've seen two opposing papers on the effectiveness of Creatine Ethly Ester, both right, but as they are written in the lab, it is up to you to apply it in the gym.

All the science means NOTHING if you don't apply it as part of the equation, the primary task being digging deep and training your absolute guts out. That video on You Tube of my leg workout was not show, I often and freakently end up flat on my back from leg training (like the way I spell frequently?) - ask Double D or Pseud as they have "enjoyed" a workout with me.

Training to the limit causes the body to respond and apply the science to grow muscle, if your not pushing it that hard, the body has no reason to be utilizing all your hard researched knowledge and applying it to growth.

Hope that makes sense and isn't too much of a ramble.

[Dubble_D]

All the science means NOTHING if you don't apply it as part of the equation, the primary task being digging deep and training your absolute guts out. That video on You Tube of my leg workout was not show, I often and freakently end up flat on my back from leg training (like the way I spell frequently?) - ask Double D or Pseud as they have "enjoyed" a workout with me. Training to the limit causes the body to respond and apply the science to grow muscle, if your not pushing it that hard, the body has no reason to be utilizing all your hard researched knowledge and applying it to growth.

:pale: Defnitly learnt how to push myself and how to control my gastrointestinal reflex :roll:

[michaelk]

Some pictures of my clients "enjoying" a leg workout

[michaelk]

:pale: Defnitly learnt how to push myself and how to control my gastrointestinal reflex :roll:

Don't control it......embrace it.

My last leg session I was "assisted" by Mark not flushing after he orally "expressed his motivation" in the toilet, the sheer sight of which caused me to orally "express my encouragement".

I flush

[Android]

Agree on the science debates online.

Plus when Mr X and Mr Y both say workout intense as...it has different meaning to both of them. That's why I think insightful posts like yours above is of greater value than writing someone up a workout plan.

Good on ya Mike

IFBB Pro ... I'm a Freakin Body Builder, PRObably :-)

[Shutupandsquat]

HEY! Those look like the results of my leg workouts too!

[blahman]

Cheers for the comments above. What has become quickly apparent is that legs day must be dredded not enjoyed as it is currently. Intensity cannot be measured but obviously mine needs to go up a notch or two. I will take some of the ideas presented above into consideration and implement them into my programs.

I look forward with dredd to wednesday and the dead ant rolling around on the floor with leg pain. Might even take a pic or two

[michaelk]

Intensity cannot be measured but obviously mine needs to go up a notch or two.........I look forward with dredd to wednesday and the dead ant rolling around on the floor with leg pain.

Be great if there was a guidline of Intensity.

On a leg training scale of 1 - 5 (1 being the bottom end)

1 - Training to failure with severe difficulty walking after working sets

2 - Sitting on arse (use of bench allowed) to prevent collapsing after working sets

3 - Flat on your back after working sets - writhing is expected and inability to stand for at least 30 seconds

4 - Peuking

5 - Multiple Peuks

If you don't eat for two hours before legs, then 4 & 5 can be avoided in which case you can push level 3 to level 5 by having to climb off the floor just to do your set. Ususally requires a couple of mins on the floor.

[Optimass]

forgot number 6 .... Sharting

[Shutupandsquat]

forgot number 6 .... Sharting

I hate it when that happens...

[soundsgood]

I agree your leg workout is only as good as the intensity you put into it.

After a few sessions where I have pushed it over the threshold and puked during or after a leg session personally I try to avoid it. I will go to a level 2 or 3 on Mikes scale and try and stay there. I think its a waste of all my pre workout nutrition and I feel crap for the rest of the session.

Cant help it sometimes though, high rep squats still get me every time :puke:

[HarryB]

I don't get that whole puking thing.. never done it... I mustn't train as hard as everyone else..

[drizzt]

^^ Neither did I actually, until a couple of weeks back when I stupidly decided to do some hard GPP at the end of a long, intense session. I pride myself on having a pretty strong gut, but I could feel the previous day's dinner welling up in the throat when I was done :puke: Didn't quite puke in the end, but I was so close to it I can now see what people say about puking after a hard legs (or other) session.

Depends on the day, the workout, and how stupid you're feeling I think :pfft: