Jump to content

Sorry!

This site is in read-only mode right now. You can browse all our old topics (and there's a lot of them) but you won't be able to add to them.

Insulin, When are you ready?

thatwaslight

By thatwaslight
in Steroids & prescription meds

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 65
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Android Veteran member

Android

Posted
Posted

what I said isn't in quite the right context, sorry I was using phone and not elaborating don't wanna scare people for no reason. Here's what I mean...

Summarised:

You can't permamently sensitize your body to insulin, it's a one-way street at the moment, otherwise if you can...go share your way with the world of diabetes and make $$$.

As you raise insulin levels you're slowly de-sensitizing your body to it's effects from childhood onwards. Obese kids get it from...what? From crappy sugary food that causes their body to always output insulin. Tom is kinda right in saying if you cycle it properly you'll be ok, but it's a one-way street you ARE de-sensitising yourself to insulin with every IU you take :-) show me how this isn't so, show everyone looking for the cure how this isn't so...

Some history:

Studies come and go, like they used to think the heart had so many beats of life in it genetically and so if you died from old age it was from that...you'd used up all your heart beats LOL

Now studies are showing it to be GH and Insulin-related, perhaps in 20 years they'll debunk this but it's a hot topic this last 5-10 years as they try harder to find cures for diabetes.

The basis for most of the studies is around restricting calories increasing your lifespan, this is commonly found in countries with long life-spans, and yes along with good diet etc. They started here and found it was kinda true.

Now there's research everywhere showing growth hormone, as well as insulin being key factors in the long life extending effects of eating less.

I don't know whether these are accepted studies but there's more than just a few people looking at it...basically improving insulin sensitivity AND reducing your insulin release reduces risk of age-related disease and likely also delay aging."

No-one will notice the desensitizing happening, it's over your lifetime but the kinds of deaths related to poor insulin sensitivity are heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure and infection. Again, if you know how to sensitize your self again, please share it with the world they are waiting for your call.

The good news is the few extra years you might lose are only the ones at the end anyway, when you're dribbling and need feeding so it's not taken from your best years.

Hope that makes sense, please go do your own research

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bobsta Member

Bobsta

Posted
Posted
what I said isn't in quite the right context, sorry I was using phone and not elaborating don't wanna scare people for no reason. Here's what I mean...

Summarised:

You can't permamently sensitize your body to insulin, it's a one-way street at the moment, otherwise if you can...go share your way with the world of diabetes and make $$$.

As you raise insulin levels you're slowly de-sensitizing your body to it's effects from childhood onwards. Obese kids get it from...what? From crappy sugary food that causes their body to always output insulin. Tom is kinda right in saying if you cycle it properly you'll be ok, but it's a one-way street you ARE de-sensitising yourself to insulin with every IU you take :-) show me how this isn't so, show everyone looking for the cure how this isn't so...

Some history:

Studies come and go, like they used to think the heart had so many beats of life in it genetically and so if you died from old age it was from that...you'd used up all your heart beats LOL

Now studies are showing it to be GH and Insulin-related, perhaps in 20 years they'll debunk this but it's a hot topic this last 5-10 years as they try harder to find cures for diabetes.

The basis for most of the studies is around restricting calories increasing your lifespan, this is commonly found in countries with long life-spans, and yes along with good diet etc. They started here and found it was kinda true.

Now there's research everywhere showing growth hormone, as well as insulin being key factors in the long life extending effects of eating less.

I don't know whether these are accepted studies but there's more than just a few people looking at it...basically improving insulin sensitivity AND reducing your insulin release reduces risk of age-related disease and likely also delay aging."

No-one will notice the desensitizing happening, it's over your lifetime but the kinds of deaths related to poor insulin sensitivity are heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure and infection. Again, if you know how to sensitize your self again, please share it with the world they are waiting for your call.

The good news is the few extra years you might lose are only the ones at the end anyway, when you're dribbling and need feeding so it's not taken from your best years.

Hope that makes sense, please go do your own research

I'm no expert at insulin injections etc... but its not that hard to increase insulin sensetivity for a healthy non-diabetic person, fasting, low carcohydrate diets, intense weight training etc... all increase your insulin sensetivity.

Infact i know of a type2 diabetic person that by introducing weight training to his exercise regiment managed to reduce his medication dosage quite comfortably.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clash Member

clash

Posted
Posted

.....so what is your opinion of when should someone use it? is it an age thing to u or a weight thing or what?

It's just an opinion...

Firstly, look at what injecting insulin into your body really is, broken down into small facts.

You're injecting something into your body that (at 7-9iu) will kill you. Cool that's a fact, not many if any survive without intervention at this point. You are injecting something that is going to kill you.

Then...you eat to prevent yourself from dying.

Right...

It's a big step to take and so I think you've got to be in a position where you can tell those around you what you are doing so you aren't hiding away taking it. You look like and act like a junkie if you do.

I made sure some people around me at work knew what I was doing.

I took 2 shots while at work mon-fri, one was at lunchtime and one pre-workout. Also my morning shot affect lasts through to late morning. So I chose to tell a guy sitting nearby me who was type-2 and taking the tablets. If I couldn't tell someone I wouldn't have done it at work. When you're hypo you can't even open a lollie wrapper how are you going to help yourself?

My family at home and training partner also had to know.

Someone mentioned earlier that diabetics are taking it all the time safely. The diabetics I know have strict instructions to take blood samples so they are better informed than a guy hiding away from workmates or family in his room taking it imo.

Lastly, it's a hit and miss drug.

You take whatever IU someone said you shoudl take and you consume the amount of sugar your mate o someone on a forum suggested and an hour later you start yawning. Is it a sign to take more sugars and early hypo or did you eat too much and it's a sugar crash yawn? do you think it's a sugar crash and do nothing...? You'd probably take more sugars as thats the harmless route...but see how hit and miss it can be

This is where I beleive you need access to either fellow diabetics who live and breathe the problem, or BBs who have experienced what you might be going through.

So "in my opinion" you're ready on 2 counts:

1. when you don't have to hide it like a junkie. If you can't tell workmates then don't take it during work hours, if you can't tell family then don't take it at home.

2. You've reached a plateau with your enhanced growth and want to take it to the next level. (Assuming you eat, sleep, and train solidly)

Startinfromscratch, sounds like your mate gained from 3iu...must have been good advice from whoever .... :-) LOL.

Not surprised 5iu made him shaky have been told that when you feel those effects that you're doing the reverse of shuttling nutrients into the muscle...you're shuttling them out.

(Been told, not researched, so don't ping me down on abstracts and proofs)

I love this simplistic approach. Very basic and easy to understand view of insulin...

It was me that "mentioned earlier that diabetics are taking it all the time safely. The diabetics I know have strict instructions to take blood samples so they are better informed than a guy hiding away from workmates or family in his room taking it imo"

You are very right. Although if you seek the right advice from experienced people they would recommend that you monitor your blood sugar levels every 15mins while taking insulin. I would never take insulin without constantly monitoring my own blood sugar and the blood sugar of those I advise, and who chose to take it on my advise..

I agree if you have to hide what you are doing, don't do it. The first person I spoke to was my partner and the second was my doctor. The first time I did a course of insulin I did it when I was off work on holiday so I could monitor the effects and be supervised.

Your information is well worth taking on board for anyone considering taking insulin for the first time.

:nod:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sims Junior member

Sims

Posted
Posted
Again, if you know how to sensitize your self again, please share it with the world they are waiting for your call.

Jump on google scholar, there is literally hundreds of papers showing the relationship between insulin sensitivity and physical activity. This won't cure diabetes however, because the pancreas is already shutdown - it does help management though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clash Member

clash

Posted
Posted

If you are an inexperienced AAS user you should not take insulin just yet as there are many growth thresh holds you can achieve without insulin that you can never revisit once you have tried to short cut them.

Id love to hear more about these growth thresh holds and if possible why it would not be possible to makes these adaptions after slin usage.

This subject is probably better to have a subject all of its' own but....

The basic principle of growth thresh holds that should not be shortcutted when using enhancements is based on receptor site sensitivity. The more sensitive the receptor, the greater the response.

If someone made the choice to take AAS for the first time and they were advised and prescribed a very sensible pyrimid dose system over a 12 - 18month period including PCT's and their first course dose was set at 250mg/week and this dose was to be increased with each proceeding course until at 12 - 18 months they were taking 1000mg/week in their 3rd or 4th course. The overall lean mass gains they would achieve would far outweigh the person that chose to take a shortcut and started their 1st course at 1000mg/week. After 12 - 18 month's the person that started at 1000mg per week would not have gained as much lean mass and would be finding it difficult to achive gains even at high doses due to receptor site down regulation.

The same is evident with creatine. if you take the first course properly with the correct loading phase it is surprising what gains you can get. If you do not take it correctly, you will not get the same gains and it doesn't matter how long you break from using creatine you will never get the same results as you can with your first course.

With insulin this is the same. There are many growth thresh holds you can achieve before you need to take insulin and taking insulin before you have reached these thresh holds will not give you the same gains as you can achieve by waiting until insulin will be the most beneficial to you. And it will not matter how long you break from taking insulin, you will not get the same gains as you do on your first course.

Of course if you chose to take 3-18months of all AAS and insulin you can reset these values and the receptor site sensitivity will be very high after this period. but then again what could you have achieved if you had continued to train enhanced for the 3-18months so it becomes a closed argument :-s

Link to comment
Share on other sites
liftheavy New member

liftheavy

Posted
Posted

My personal experience and from talking to a few guys at the high end of development, is that slin is best used when acceptable gains are not seen from conventional gear. for some this may mean after the 5th cycle, or for some it may mean at the pro level. its an individual thing and not to be taken lightly. What would constitute unacceptable gains?? for me this would be 1-2 kgs lean per cycle. now over the course of the year these small gains add up, but again its a personal thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HarryB Veteran member

HarryB

Posted
Posted

Interesting thread. What I have found both using it and from others who have used it is that it is best used very sparingly. It can long term affect your own production of insulin and because it doesn't discriminate as to where it is anabolic.. ie fat or muscle.. if you are very specific about your eating and timing of nutrients you will gain a hell of a lot of fat weight.

At any rate, having used it both off season and pre contest... and the short acting, plus the 70/30 long and short mix we get over here.. I don't think it's worthwhile. We have to remember that a big portion of why it started getting used was to offset the insulin resistance that was created by GH use.. then guy would have to throw in Thyroid or some other strong fatburner to counteract the fat gain and before you know it you're taking every drug under the sun.

I actually stopped using the fast acting primarily because I would get so pumped that it affected my training. Stupid to say I know, but when you are warming your shoulders up for some pressing and they are burning like you have done a whole workout it kind of makes it a little hard to do any productive strength training. I would get pumped forearms just from holding the dbs etc etc etc

Maybe if I had a little GH I might do some.. yeah I might make some calls lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Android Veteran member

Android

Posted
Posted
Interesting thread. What I have found both using it and from others who have used it is that it is best used very sparingly. It can long term affect your own production of insulin and because it doesn't discriminate as to where it is anabolic.. ie fat or muscle.. if you are very specific about your eating and timing of nutrients you will gain a hell of a lot of fat weight.

At any rate, having used it both off season and pre contest... and the short acting, plus the 70/30 long and short mix we get over here.. I don't think it's worthwhile. We have to remember that a big portion of why it started getting used was to offset the insulin resistance that was created by GH use.. then guy would have to throw in Thyroid or some other strong fatburner to counteract the fat gain and before you know it you're taking every drug under the sun.

I actually stopped using the fast acting primarily because I would get so pumped that it affected my training. Stupid to say I know, but when you are warming your shoulders up for some pressing and they are burning like you have done a whole workout it kind of makes it a little hard to do any productive strength training. I would get pumped forearms just from holding the dbs etc etc etc

Maybe if I had a little GH I might do some.. yeah I might make some calls lol

Absolutely spot-on with those observations imo. Most people "try" it once, and a few will do it more than that.

I think pre-contest it's a cheaper way to fill out the muscle bellies than HGH..what do u think?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clash Member

clash

Posted
Posted

There is a very synergistic interaction between Insulin, T3 & HGH. One is not taken to counter the effect of the other, rather these are taken because in the right environment they compliment each-other perfectly and they are possibly the single most useful combination of substances for increasing mass.

There is a major draw back with taking Insulin for carb-loading pre-comp, it can often cause a smoothing out of the definition through slight subcutaneous fluid retention

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Popular Contributors

    Nobody has received reputation this week.

×
×
  • Create New...