Squat... to drop or to not..

[ThePman]

And then we have this:

Who is this guy? For some reason its quite bizarre!

THeres never any sign of a spotter....which means he never doubted the lift.

Its hard to tell if he`s raw because you don`t know whats under the clothes but appears he`s only got neoprene sleeves on which in spite of his unusual technique is pretty bloody good.

Pat Mendes, theres a few vids of him on You tube doing some big RAW lifts. Hes still very young and at one point was rated by some as being the strongest teenager in the world. Pman will know more about this strength freak!!!

Mendes is an interesting case. He's obviously a brute-strong kid, but he's attracted a lot of attention not for that squat style (which is pretty common in OLers) but for how his coach has him train. Broz has him working up to max squats twice a day, 5-6 days a week.

I was tempted to call it a fluke, but Broz has turned out several consistently strong lifters in lighter weight classes -- he's got a guy around 95 who's back squatted 270 range and front squatted 200ish, and another guy around 85-90 with 250/185 numbers, both of them raw, high-bar/OL style squats like in the Mendes video.

As far as the dive-bomb style, I like it personally and I think I'm stronger using that style. Partly because of old injuries from wide-stancing, and partly cause I'm lanky (skinny as hell) so it agrees with me more.

It's not something you'd want to jump right into without practice.

[Optimass]

Squat speed is important Tom, as long as your eccentric isnt superslow then you should be fine. Train whats natural to you but train to depth requirements. Get it right in the gym before hitting the platform. Like Doc said, speeding up the eccentric when wearing equipment helps making depth as well as popping out of the hole. I tend to drop(literally) into the hole around 3" from parallel when in equipment where as RAW I maintain a more controlled eccentric.

I have been squating more consistantly over the last 4 - 5 years but would still consider myself a novice based on the technical detail. Always done it controlled and find my control is better once I get beyond 100kg and instinctively start "popping" at about 180kg. (Popping - a new term for me).

Have to really concentrate to minimised it though as it has caused minor issues with my left knee in the past .... my legs are the only body part I haven't had issues with so tend to go easy as soon as there is a potential problem. My height may be a dissadvantage. I have also been pretty quick to correct clients as soon as Isee it too - for fear of injury.

(just noted your comment on restricting it when RAW lifting ... this is the only way I do it. )

[NewZealand]

I have a question,

Can anyone tell me how to know if you are squatting or dead lifting incorrectly?

I find myself not doing any exercises for my back as i cannot seem to tell if i am damaging my back or not.

[KiwiCoachingOnline]

From my understanding bouncing is not a good way to go and cheats the weight up. Since the tendons hold elastic energy, when lifters bounce it releases this energy making it easier to move the weight but places a lot of the force onto the tendons rather than the muscle. Where as if the movement is slow, deep and controlled the tendons do not release the elastic energy and the force is placed on the muscles more.

This is like the vertical jump power test. If you squat down and pause before you jump up as high as you can, you will not get anywhere near the height compared to if you bounced down and then straight back up. Have had several injuries from bouncing weights around.

[KiwiCoachingOnline]

I have a question,

Can anyone tell me how to know if you are squatting or dead lifting incorrectly?

I find myself not doing any exercises for my back as i cannot seem to tell if i am damaging my back or not.

Both movements are very similar. Shoulders back, head up, feet shoulder width apart and slightly pointed out and stick your bum out like you are going to sit down in a chair. Try not to jerk the weight around. As long as you do this and never round your back out you will be fine. Your lower back will get DOMS also just like any other muscle. Deadlifts if done correctly will get your whole back working. And make sure you place the barbell on your traps with squats and never on your spine. Hope this helps.

[tinytraps]

And your a coach? If yourve had injuries because of bouncing its more likely to be because you did not build up to it. I dont think anyone should do a dive bomb squat ala pat mendes the first time they ever have a bar on their back.

Some people can jump higher doing the pause jump. If this is the case that person would benefit from more plyo type exercises.

As for cheating the weight up? Niggggger pleeeeeaze. Tendons are a part of your body. If you dont want to utilize them to squat more thats up to you. But if I do it and I squat more than you will you call cheat?

[Android]

I have a question,

Can anyone tell me how to know if you are squatting or dead lifting incorrectly?

I find myself not doing any exercises for my back as i cannot seem to tell if i am damaging my back or not.

I'd find a good experienced lifter to show you, then ask a few more people, and between the various different opinions find the one you most trust.

But be careful because form isn't the only thing that can ruin your back...

there's been a couple of NZ's top bodybuilders in for back surgery this and last year (1 male and 1 female I can think of right now) due to compressed spine they attribute to heavy squatting.

Not everyone who is an Elite BB needs back surgery but then not everyone knows if they are prone to the condition before putting a heavy weight on their back either.

[KiwiCoachingOnline]

And your a coach? If yourve had injuries because of bouncing its more likely to be because you did not build up to it. I dont think anyone should do a dive bomb squat ala pat mendes the first time they ever have a bar on their back.

Some people can jump higher doing the pause jump. If this is the case that person would benefit from more plyo type exercises.

As for cheating the weight up? Niggggger pleeeeeaze. Tendons are a part of your body. If you dont want to utilize them to squat more thats up to you. But if I do it and I squat more than you will you call cheat?

The injuries where when I first started lifting and was inexperience. And I have to disagree that just because someone could possibly jump higher with a pause jump that they should do plyometrics, training needs to be specific to what goals they want to reach. Plyo training would not be as beneficial to strength as training strength directly.

And I know tendons are part of your body and need to be used during a squat, might have been a bit unclear sorry. Was merely saying that we want the muscles to produce the force to lift the weight up, not the tendons from bouncing. And no I would not call it cheating in this situation, but in a non competitive setting when we are training, we want the intensity as high as possible so want it slow and controlled the whole way.

[ThePman]

Learning to use the stretch reflex is a component of strength.

It may not be specific to the strength you're trying to develop if you're squatting to build bigger thighs, but that comes down to goal-setting.

[ThePman]

Oh and just because I dig Broz and bounced OL squats, here's 185 @ 69kg:

[nate225]

Learning to use the stretch reflex is a component of strength.

This.

And I note this is the PLing thread so emphasis of original question is to do with strength not mass building. As always train how you intend to compete.

'nuff said.