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UFC and positive tests

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5 hours ago, Bruce Al said:

 

The guy is constantly fighting cheaters, i say good on him.

That rant with Ariel was fucking awesome but i wonder what jesus would have thought about it :ph34r:

Yeah for sure it's good that he fights the guys using gear for sure but then so do a lot of other people . Some don't even know they have fought a guy on gear because they never get caught.  My question is would Mark have won the fight had Brock not been using gear?  Would he have caused all this stink had he won?  I mean obviously performance enhancers give you an edge in strength but as far as mma goes  a skilled fighter will beat a strong fighter any day. Yes strength is still up there but I dunno does it really give them that much of an edge? It doesn't increase your knockout power.  Be good to hear from some fighters about what they think. 

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The prime role of AAS is to increase recovery capabilites, not to increase strength or anything specifically.

So even then it could theoretically make a fighter more skilled as he'll be able to train harder, more frequently and be fresher and more adaptive to his skill sessions.

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^ also it has other benefits like increase in red blood cell count doesn't it? inb4 mark hunt is also busted for being on something

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Without the clomid we can assume Brock would have been emo from the estrogen. He would have needed a hug from Mark much sooner and thus would've won in round 1. ;-)

 

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I think the main reason Mark is really annoyed is that there is a massive financial loss from not winning. They are professionals after all in a very tough sport so if an athlete blatantly breaks the rules (and is caught)  which in all likely hood (probably) affected the result Mark losses a massive amount of potential money as a result.

 

So far they are not reversing the decision or asking for the winners purse (or a portion of it) to be paid to Mark. they are also not yet banning or fining Brock for cheating.

 

I think as amateur we forget the amount of expense Mark would have incurred to train for this fight,

 

Flights, accomodation, insurances and paying top level trainers for many months of specialist MMA training isnt cheap, it's not like preparing for a novice sporting event.

 

And when your opponent beats you, takes the winner purse, is found to be blatantly breaking the UFC rules and you miss out on a higher paycheck and record book win- which leads to better/more lucrative fights etc this directly affects Marks career and income.

 

Yes he could be more diplomatic but I would suggest he is fuming - these are $100 of thousands of dollars lost. How would you or I feel about that?

 

In regard to anabolics perhaps potentially not helping him much, firstly they are banned in UFC, secondly I would suggest that if the last 30-40 years of Track and Field, Body Building,  Cycling, NFL and other competitive sport involving  AAS to facilitate increases muscular hypertrophy, strength, endurance or power etc that is a pretty odd statement to make.

 

Brock could have trained more often, recovered faster, had a higher LBM ratio, increased Type 2 Fibre SIze etc. all a massive advantage. As you mentioned Skeletor, he would have been stronger from using them, this may not increase his direct KO power but he is a wrestler who use his strength to grapple and his size to smother opponents - all which would ave been greatly assisted with Gear. If his diet remained the same and he went off cycle completely for any length of time I doubt he would be carrying that much lean size around.

 

If we look at someone like Val Adams shot putt lengths compared to Eastern Block countries of 20 years ago I believe she is still several meters shorter and she has great levers and genetics for that sport, is it fair to say that some of those Eastern Block athletes benefitted greatly from doping.

 

I understand Brock needs to maintain a certain size and recover from bout to bout for his WWE contract and this is very lucrative as the wrestlers have to project a certain look, but believe the UFC really screwed up doing nothing about this (so far) and screwed Mark over this time.

 

As he admitted, he could live with a win and draw against guys failing tests (Silva and Mir) as financially the reward and record book looks better but to have an opponent fail the test, get the win $$ that should be Marks and have the fight listed as a no contest is pretty poor. The UFC could change their stance on this but I believe this is currently how it stands?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The way Mark stumbled around during the fight I doubt it would have mattered, he didn't even turn up, if he had he just had to punch brock in the face and no amount of gear would have stopped him being knocked out. I think they should just flag testing and have it open, big bowl of orals in each fighters changing room and mandatory tren jabs the week leading up to it. 

 

 

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Rules are rules but Hunt knew what the ufC was when he signed up. His motivations are selfish - why wasnt he campaigning for a union befoe the fight?

 

Lifes not fair, Hunt was wroonged but hes going about solving it the wrong way.

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On 29/07/2016 at 3:21 PM, Matrix said:

I think the main reason Mark is really annoyed is that there is a massive financial loss from not winning. They are professionals after all in a very tough sport so if an athlete blatantly breaks the rules (and is caught)  which in all likely hood (probably) affected the result Mark losses a massive amount of potential money as a result.

 

So far they are not reversing the decision or asking for the winners purse (or a portion of it) to be paid to Mark. they are also not yet banning or fining Brock for cheating.

 

I think as amateur we forget the amount of expense Mark would have incurred to train for this fight,

 

Flights, accomodation, insurances and paying top level trainers for many months of specialist MMA training isnt cheap, it's not like preparing for a novice sporting event.

 

And when your opponent beats you, takes the winner purse, is found to be blatantly breaking the UFC rules and you miss out on a higher paycheck and record book win- which leads to better/more lucrative fights etc this directly affects Marks career and income.

 

Yes he could be more diplomatic but I would suggest he is fuming - these are $100 of thousands of dollars lost. How would you or I feel about that?

 

In regard to anabolics perhaps potentially not helping him much, firstly they are banned in UFC, secondly I would suggest that if the last 30-40 years of Track and Field, Body Building,  Cycling, NFL and other competitive sport involving  AAS to facilitate increases muscular hypertrophy, strength, endurance or power etc that is a pretty odd statement to make.

 

Brock could have trained more often, recovered faster, had a higher LBM ratio, increased Type 2 Fibre SIze etc. all a massive advantage. As you mentioned Skeletor, he would have been stronger from using them, this may not increase his direct KO power but he is a wrestler who use his strength to grapple and his size to smother opponents - all which would ave been greatly assisted with Gear. If his diet remained the same and he went off cycle completely for any length of time I doubt he would be carrying that much lean size around.

 

If we look at someone like Val Adams shot putt lengths compared to Eastern Block countries of 20 years ago I believe she is still several meters shorter and she has great levers and genetics for that sport, is it fair to say that some of those Eastern Block athletes benefitted greatly from doping.

 

I understand Brock needs to maintain a certain size and recover from bout to bout for his WWE contract and this is very lucrative as the wrestlers have to project a certain look, but believe the UFC really screwed up doing nothing about this (so far) and screwed Mark over this time.

 

As he admitted, he could live with a win and draw against guys failing tests (Silva and Mir) as financially the reward and record book looks better but to have an opponent fail the test, get the win $$ that should be Marks and have the fight listed as a no contest is pretty poor. The UFC could change their stance on this but I believe this is currently how it stands?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole premise of your post is wrong as Marks contract doesn't have a win bonus attached.

He got $700k win or lose.

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9 hours ago, donz said:

The way Mark stumbled around during the fight I doubt it would have mattered, he didn't even turn up, if he had he just had to punch brock in the face and no amount of gear would have stopped him being knocked out. I think they should just flag testing and have it open, big bowl of orals in each fighters changing room and mandatory tren jabs the week leading up to it. 

 

 

 

It's hard to knock out a taller wrestler who did not strike and every time Mark threw a combo Brock was willing to shoot a takedown.

 

Perfect safe gameplan.

 

If Mark went headhunting he'd have spent even more time on his back.

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When Brett Gibbs came second and the winner of his class tested positive for doping that thread looked quite different. 

 

Tall poppy is alive and well toward mark hunt.

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4 hours ago, Wookie said:

 

The whole premise of your post is wrong as Marks contract doesn't have a win bonus attached.

He got $700k win or lose.

 

Pretty impressive word count though if just talking shit. Big dump lol.

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14 hours ago, Wookie said:

 

It's hard to knock out a taller wrestler who did not strike and every time Mark threw a combo Brock was willing to shoot a takedown.

 

Perfect safe gameplan.

 

If Mark went headhunting he'd have spent even more time on his back.

Did we watch the same fight? The entire second round Brock just stood with him - I can't even recall a take down attempt, maybe one max. He had more than enough chances to throw.

 

But I can't say I've had a punching fight with a taller wrestler, I have only wrestled them as it was my choosen sport before rugby at a younger age. If you shoot in and miss a take down chances are you have to stand back up, like I said he had plenty of chances but he didn't look to have any urgency that whole fight, like i said he didn't really turn up. Least that's my personal opinion.

 

Also unsure how you'd spend more time on your back if you're already on your back..

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1 hour ago, donz said:

Did we watch the same fight? The entire second round Brock just stood with him - I can't even recall a take down attempt, maybe one max. He had more than enough chances to throw.

 

But I can't say I've had a punching fight with a taller wrestler, I have only wrestled them as it was my choosen sport before rugby at a younger age. If you shoot in and miss a take down chances are you have to stand back up, like I said he had plenty of chances but he didn't look to have any urgency that whole fight, like i said he didn't really turn up. Least that's my personal opinion.

 

Also unsure how you'd spend more time on your back if you're already on your back..

 

It's not as simple as that.

 

Brock's plan was simple- while standing he would keep distance by remaining upright and shoot from distance so Mark could not use an uppercut.

He would wait for Mark to commit to throwing a combo (given his size and desire to knock out Lesnar, he has to telegraph his punches.). Once Mark would commit, Brock would either shoot from a distance or evade by going backwards at an angle.

Each time Mark threw combo's in Rd 1, that's what happened and Mark got put on his back a couple times.

The second round remained standing the entire time, but Brock was waiting for Mark to throw. Brock hit Mark with a grand total of 3 jabs in the whole 5 minutes, which proves my point (I even checked the fightmetric to confirm). Mark was looking for a telegraphing left, which he was throwing on it's own, for reasons I shared above. Frustrated, nothing connected well. Brock was standing, yes, but not seeking to be offensive.

Round 3 Hunt knew he had to do work, and immediately got taken down.

 

That's my take on the fight. Every time Mark tried to throw combo's Brock either backtracked, or shot. Mark simply couldn't close the distance and throw combo's. A boring, but effective fight for Lesnar.

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I didn't realise lesnar was as big as he was until they were in the octagon together. He's massive! Once i saw my prediction quickly changed.

 

was never going to be an exciting fight in not sure why they matched them both.  The pre fight hype was big though.

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On 7/31/2016 at 7:22 PM, Wookie said:

 

The whole premise of your post is wrong as Marks contract doesn't have a win bonus attached.

He got $700k win or lose.

 

I dont  agree with you there Wookie as the premise of my post wasn't based solely on a win bonus, it was mainly about there being no punishment for cheating and no benefit to the losing fighter as a result of losing to someone who is cheating. When a fighters record suffers as a result of losses to a doped fighter, that affects their future ranking, bouts and marketability. Generally lower ranking = lower dollars and less opportunity.

 

If he beats the WWE and UFC Drawcard Brock then his potential paychecks go up next fight as more people want to watch him so this result does really hit him in the pocket.

 

It also makes him angry enough to make the outbursts that he has made which probably hasnt endeared himself to the UFC but again I draw the analogy, if you come second at the Olympics to a known  or Heavily Suspected drug cheat but nothing is done I would say most here would be pissed off given the level of commitment and sacrifice it takes to compete at that level. Look at how pissed Val was with Ostakchuk! Ostachuk apparently avoided testing in her country for 4 years prior to her winning gold.

 

By losing the fight to a guy who broke the rules this can directly affect a fighters income, fair enough he may have a fixed rate win or lose as you pointed out but for a guy who fails the test to take their full cut with no ramifications is wrong in my opinion.

 

 In Boxing if you get caught you loose titles, potentially lose the purse etc.In the Olympics, you lose the medal and prestige.

 In this instance  Brock got no punishment and all the (financial) benefit which is wrong in my opinion and Mark got none of the benefits that athletes in other sports usually get when they get bumped up the ladder following someone failing a test.

I used to like MMA and UFC as they were seen as being less fixed with less cheating and manipulation than Boxing but now I am not so sure.

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Sure, I can understand that @Matrix.

The Nevada State Commission is meeting soon - the rumour is Brock is  likely getting a $500k fine likely and a 2 year ban.

I for one am stoked the UFC is not in the business of fining athletes. It would make them judge, jury and employer. 

 

Justice moves slowly. Mark is currently losing his mind and reputation on social media, and I really wish he wouldn't. 

There hasn't been a trial yet, a verdict has not been handed down, and people are complaining Brock hasn't been fined. Give it time.

The reason the UFC appears to have alot of 'cheating' is because testing is getting better. The alternative is we have no drug testing and you take AAS to level the playing field. 

With Jones and Lesnar both getting caught, seems the 'system' is doing what it's supposed to.
 

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From what ive seen online it appears Jon Jones has tested positive to a banned substance,  USADA hasnt said what it is. Whst happens now?

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wanderlei silva is my boy,love ever fight even the ones he lost,and vitor belfort fastest banger there was.f*ck pride was the shit man,i miss those soccer kicks.And mark hunt to.

 

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