Cardio makes ya fat! :D

[Lyndon]

some people are just gonna spit when they read this

but if your familiar with gary taubes and his new book 'good calories , bad calories' then one of the points he brings up is exercise makes us hungier and makes us fatter ...or something along those lines (yet to properly read it)

heres a link on something similar

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine ... e_continue

u have to be open minded to read this thread but the earth is NOT flat peoples

Joel might have a better view from reading the book.

Curious to see peoples responses , opinions.....im still sitting on the fence with this one

heres a thread i started on another board

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5729531

[joelbell]

I wouldn't say it makes you fat, cos there are some skinny runners out there. However, i don't think many people on a bodybuilding site want to look like a marathon runner.

I remember reading about how body pump instructors have lower body fat percentages than aerobics instructors, and how sprinters have lower body fat than marathon runners. There's probably something to say about gaining lean body mass through heavier, shorter duration exercise.

Energy balance still counts, and you can lose weight just by eating less energy than you need and doing no exercise. You can save an hour of cardio time by eating say 600 calories less. I've seen some people do only strength training and dieting for comps and get very ripped.

I think cardiovascular fitness increases the percentage of fat burnt at rest. i.e unfit person may burn 50% glycogen and 50% fat at rest, versus a fit person who burns 30% glycogen and 70% fat at rest.

Here's a question, does your strength training have a significant effect on your cardiovascular fitness? When I do weights my heart rate and breathing increase quite a lot

[Lyndon]

I wouldn't say it makes you fat, cos there are some skinny runners out there. However, i don't think many people on a bodybuilding site want to look like a marathon runner.

yes but theres also skinny people that do nothing at all , i think marathon runners are marathon runners cos thats what they are good at genetically , as they are naturally small , light and lean..eg for all elites at there sport are elite for a reason , as it naturally suits there body type

for instance a sumo wrestler cant train like a marathon runner and expect to ever look like one and be as good as a top level marathon runner...

have i made my point? lol

im almost starting to think that no matter what we do our body is always going to fight back to what its natural bodyshape should be despite what efforts we put in...

hmmmm be cool to get some more opinions on the topic as its quite a big point gary taubes brings up and would cause a lot of upset IF he was correct.

[Lyndon]

I remember reading about how body pump instructors have lower body fat percentages than aerobics instructors, and how sprinters have lower body fat than marathon runners. There's probably something to say about gaining lean body mass through heavier, shorter duration exercise.

yeah ive covered this before also , apparently short intense cardio increases more t3 and long duration low intesity releases more t4

basically it comes down to hormones and that the HIT cardio gives the body more of a reason to maintain muscle for fast exercise and lose as much fat as possible to be able to move as efficiently as poss if training for hight speed....

eg why they say to lift heavy while dieting , giving the body a reason to keep what uve gained while in a calorie deficit.

but then it also comes down to certain diets and that doing HIT is good if u consume carbs and LIT is good if u have low/no carbs as ur allready in a fat burning metabolism and your body would just convert the next easiest for of glucose and metabolise muscle to make up for the HIT performed in a low carb state.

Hope this somewhat makes sence...im going a bit off track now i think from the OP haha

[Flex]

heres a link on something similar

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine ... e_continue

They had this article in the herald a month or so ago. Reading it then it annoyed the f*ck out of me until I got to the last paragraph and they suddenly make the connection between combining exercise and diet. I would have thought that was a given and it should have been pointed out at the start. I'd wager a lot of people read this article and don't get to the end of it and then go off spouting that exercise doesn't work and that's the reason why their still fat.

[Pseudonym]

The article's not really saying cardio makes you fat - it's just questioning the effectiveness of it.

By itself, I think there's no question that cardio works. It HAS to, it's just basic maths - calories out, versus calories in. Where it gets murky is when you start introducing other factors like whether the increased exercise increases the appetite, etc.

There was a time when virtually no one believed exercise would help a person lose weight. Until the Sixties, clinicians who treated obese and overweight patients dismissed the notion as naive. When Russell Wilder, an obesity and diabetes specialist at the Mayo Clinic, lectured on obesity in 1932, he said his fat patients tended to lose more weight with bed rest, 'while unusually strenuous physical exercise slows the rate of loss'.

The problem, as he and his contemporaries saw it, is that light exercise burns an insignificant number of calories - amounts that are undone by comparatively effortless changes in diet. In 1942, Louis Newburgh of the University of Michigan calculated that a 17st man expends only three calories climbing a flight of stairs - the equivalent of depriving himself of a quarter of a teaspoon of sugar or 100th of an ounce of butter. 'He will have to climb 20 flights of stairs to rid himself of the energy contained in one slice of bread,' Newburgh observed.

For a start, I think a lot of the weight lost by bed-ridden patients would be a result of muscular atrophy, not necessarily fat reduction.

The "inefficiency" problem described above with low intensity cardio is one of the reasons I've always avoided it (the other reason is laziness). It's always seemed much more efficient to do HIT or weights.

Because it takes so long to burn so few calories, if low intensity cardio does work, surely it must be through other mechanisms of action - such as stimulating hormones, etc. At that point, I'm way out of my depth, and will have to leave the debate to the more learned members of this forum... :grin:

[joelbell]

I believe a pound of human fat contains 6500 calories, thats a lot of running to burn that off.

In almost all cases weight is determined by the law of conservation of energy. There will be genetic variation, metabolism, hormonal factors etc. But if you have two twins and feed one 1500 calories a day, and feed the other 5000 calories a day, one will be thin and one will be big.

If we fed marathon runners more calories they would gain weight, there must be some fat, rich kenyans out there. Sumo wrestlers typically eat two massive meals a day in order to store excess calories, and there are plenty of tiny japanese people around.

The genetic differences may lie in whatever it is that tells us how much energy we want to eat. Maybe it is psychology or hormones?

The controversy starts when we decide what macronutrients are best to eat.

Most diets seem to revolve around either cutting fat or cutting carbs. Perhaps the secret is not eating carbs and fat in the same meals? But it is so hard when we eat bread and butter, and mcdonals french fries, etc.

[2guns]

Perhaps the secret is not eating carbs and fat in the same meals?

and wat would that do?

[Pseudonym]

Perhaps the secret is not eating carbs and fat in the same meals?

I have heard this theory before, but I can't remember the basis of it. I could be wrong, but I think Allen and Maree Stubbington from Impact Nutrition were quite keen on it. Can you elaborate on how this might work, Joel?

[Marcus]

The diet related to DC Training recommends only protein/fat meals or protein/carb meals.

Have a read of this:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=460327

[craig.j]

In his test where he trained people to become marathon runners, there must have been a significant increase in carbs.

There’s a difference between exercising for weight loss and exercising to increase performance!

But anyway using the weight of an individual is a terrible way of gauging a person’s body composition, why would they even consider this! The women who ran the marathon had no change in weight, although does this mean no change in BF, LMM or bone density?

This really stirred me up, as a qualified personal trainer and soon to be PE teacher it kinda makes me question if we are teaching people the right things

[joelbell]

the only thing garry taubes book taught me was that a lot of research has flaws in it, and that you can back up any side if you find the right studies.

protein and fat diets with low carbs tend to argue that eating this way will not cause a high insulin release (storage hormone), therefore if you don't eat carbs you can't store as much fat.

if you eat a carb protein low fat diet insulin will be released, but there is no fat to store from that meal.

just saw a link on t-nation, don't know if it is the same as the other guys, its massive eating part two by Dr John Berardi, he explains hormones and eating:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=460327

[poos_n_wees]

Perhaps the secret is not eating carbs and fat in the same meals?

Bubye icecream and peanut butter sammiches

Doesn't protien intake also create an insulin response? And fat can be stored without the presence of insulin?

[joelbell]

Protein does have an insulin response. If you compare eating steak to eating pasta, you can get a lot more pasta in without feeling full and get a bigger insulin response i guess. i tried looking for a chart that compares insulin response in protein foods to carb foods but can't find.

i must say i like ice cream sandwiches. all low carb writers seem to think fat can't store by itself? they always say if you eat bacon and eggs with toast you'l store fat, but if you eat just the bacon and eggs you won't store fat. who knows?

[Pseudonym]

I've never tried an ice cream sandwich, with or without peanut butter. Have I been missing out? :think:

[joelbell]

Buy a pack of wafers and a tub of ice cream. then lay a wafer out and pile on ice cream, then put a wafer on top. its amazing. i had 6 the other day. haven't tried with peanut butter, i think im over it due to years of peanut butter sandwiches going to school.

[poos_n_wees]

Buy a pack of wafers and a tub of ice cream. then lay a wafer out and pile on ice cream, then put a wafer on top

:shock: I need to try this.

I've never tried an ice cream sandwich, with or without peanut butter. Have I been missing out? :think:

oh the sheltered life you live Pseudo.

- 2 slices of white bread (NOT wholegrain or soy & linseed etc or God forbid, cornthins)

- Generously spread peanut butter (crunchy is the best) on each slice

- Add 1 scoop of icecream

- Squish it all together

- EAT

[joelbell]

white bread and ice cream! that doesn't sound appealing but i'l try it out

[2guns]

white bread and ice cream! that doesn't sound appealing but i'l try it out

sounds disgusting, would be soggy bread in seconds

[blairandkelly]

poos you need help gurl :pfft:

[Pseudonym]

2 slices of white bread (NOT wholegrain or soy & linseed etc or God forbid, cornthins)

I actually think corn thins would be quite good with ice cream. Kind of like wafers, only not as pink.

[poos_n_wees]

sounds disgusting, would be soggy bread in seconds

doesn't make the bread soggy.

it isn't disgusting.

poos you need help gurl :pfft:

:ditto: I think I'm started to sound like some kind of food junkie

[MILF]

Buy a pack of wafers and a tub of ice cream. then lay a wafer out and pile on ice cream, then put a wafer on top. its amazing. i had 6 the other day. haven't tried with peanut butter, i think im over it due to years of peanut butter sandwiches going to school.

I am sure you can buy ice ceam in blocks the sice of a wafer. Or maybe they don't make them anymore.