1g EQ with 1g Test E results

[atrollappears]

To elaborate on my earlier criticism:

There are three factors to take into account:

i)                    Toms age

ii)                   Number of years on AAS

iii)                 Choice of compounds, amount & ratios

What science, my own personal experience & a couple of biochemists and pro-body-builders from GH-15 have to say:

When considering dose to gains V side effects, comparing 3-4g/week as opposed to 1-1.5g/week it depends how much AR are up-regulated through prolonged high-dose usage. Jumping up from 1.5-3-4g will not result in any more gains for most people. If you have been using gear for just over a year or less there is no way AR will have up-regulated enough to benefit from 3-4g… 1.5-2g is an absolute maximum dose for gains before AR re-saturation, all that will be achieved is more side effects..

If you have been on AAS a while (years) or if especially on hGH then running more gear may be an option, hGH allows the running of more gear for greater gains… Only if you are a veteran with extreme goals + hGH would you get away with 3-4g/week. Most people would just get the side effects…..

When selecting compounds there are a number of factors to consider: Tren, Test, Boldenone, & Deca all have differing affinity’s for the androgen receptor (AR), Trenbolone having the greatest binding affinity….. therefore it would seem logical any compound administered in conjunction with high dose Tren would have greater competition for AR. It would seem prudent to keep Test low, just enough for sexual function, mood etc so that there is no residual Test floating around your blood stream unable to bind AR aromatizing and converting to DHT via 5-alpha reductase, resulting in high Estrogen and progesterone side effects… With a Boldenone Test cycle, Test has the greater binding affinity, therefore it is suggested to run Test low 250mg and Boldenone high 600-800mg… If Test is of equal amount Boldenone has difficulty competing for AR…. with Test having precedence..  

For too long this forum has been lied to by those with agendas regarding gear usage/dosage selling under-dosed, overpriced crap… “Keep Test high when running Deca”… Bullshit..!!! Nandrolone has a greater binding affinity than Test, so to avoid estrogenic and progesterone sides from aromatisation and DHT conversion from too much Test unable to bind AR, Test should be kept low…

I remember being on 2.5g/week pharma gear back home and the side effects crippled me, if you aren’t experiencing any side, let alone being crippled by 3g then your gear is seriously under-dosed. JasonDB from GH-15 talked about how to tell if you gear is correctly dosed by private blood work: Basically 2000mg/week of any estered gear Test, Tren, Deca etc (all produce similar blood levels in tests) 2000mg/week should = 8-9000ng/dl……. 500mg/week should = 2-2200ng/dl….

Under the circumstances it might be appropriate in this case to ask what brand of AAS you are currently on….

There is information out there that negates the need for unnecessarily high dosed cycles and poor choices of compound combinations, you just need to look…!!!

My 2c…… 

[atrollappears]

Why do you you feel the need or have the want to use that much aas? Serious question. I don't understand it really.

What do you consider high dose aas realtalk? Do u base it on the individual and how much mass they hold? by mgs an individual uses? By time on and experience with aas?

Hey Rapz.... I've seen your profile on GH-15, and your twice the size of Tom... 

You are correct in stating: Mass, Amount of AAS & total time on AAS are a big factor in the amount of gear required for a growth cycle... The cruise dose also is determined by the amount of body mass... The greater the size the greater the amount of AAS to retain that mass...  

[AZIDE]

i keep seeing conflicting advice re test and tren ratio. i remember IDW getting flamed for using high tren low test and ive seen other posts saying keep test higher than tren. thats pretty much what ive always done.

now im a bit confused.

whats your current opinion tom (realtalk one)? just because i remember you saying keep test higher than tren..

 

 

re daz's question about gear brand, if the gear is made by the user from raw powder then it should be dosed legit right? eg test e has specific melting point so easy to check this. are raw steroid powders ever cut with other shit that looks the same with same melting point..which is harmless? 

[atrollappears]

i keep seeing conflicting advice re test and tren ratio. i remember IDW getting flamed for using high tren low test and ive seen other posts saying keep test higher than tren. thats pretty much what ive always done.

now im a bit confused.

whats your current opinion tom (realtalk one)? just because i remember you saying keep test higher than tren..

 

 

re daz's question about gear brand, if the gear is made by the user from raw powder then it should be dosed legit right? eg test e has specific melting point so easy to check this. are raw steroid powders ever cut with other shit that looks the same with same melting point..which is harmless? 

There is an option to run Test high, Tren low in a Test dominant cycle recomended to harden you up, and induce fat burning.... The issue here is Tom wants to run them BOTH high, thats where the problem is... Its going against either option...!!! Kinda pointless and guaranteed to induce needless side effects, and waste money...!!!  

[Leeroid]

Well if you actually read my post properly you would see that monkey is currently only on 2g of gear not 3g as deca is not being used at the present moment. He wants to run the addition of deca in a month or so once gains start slowing down before he hits a plateau.

And I think 34kg of gains in just as many months is enough to justify this "excessive" amount of gear. Just watch out for monkey man in September 2014 haha

[Leeroid]

JasonDB from GH-15 talked about how to tell if you gear is correctly dosed by private blood work: Basically 2000mg/week of any estered gear Test, Tren, Deca etc (all produce similar blood levels in tests) 2000mg/week should = 8-9000ng/dl……. 500mg/week should = 2-2200ng/dl….

The fact that most medlabs in NZ don't report levels above a certain threshold makes this almost impossible to test.

 

[Realtalk]

Well if you actually read my post properly you would see that monkey is currently only on 2g of gear not 3g as deca is not being used at the present moment. He wants to run the addition of deca in a month or so once gains start slowing down before he hits a plateau.

And I think 34kg of gains in just as many months is enough to justify this "excessive" amount of gear. Just watch out for monkey man in September 2014 haha

I did read it properly... You said you're going to use 3 gram so I commented based on that.

34kg wow!! U were small then and still small now... A starving Ugandan could gain 44kg in a matter of months... What's your point?

[Realtalk]

i keep seeing conflicting advice re test and tren ratio. i remember IDW getting flamed for using high tren low test and ive seen other posts saying keep test higher than tren. thats pretty much what ive always done.

now im a bit confused.

whats your current opinion tom (realtalk one)? just because i remember you saying keep test higher than tren..

 

 

re daz's question about gear brand, if the gear is made by the user from raw powder then it should be dosed legit right? eg test e has specific melting point so easy to check this. are raw steroid powders ever cut with other shit that looks the same with same melting point..which is harmless? 

Yeah that's how id run it. I don't use tren, havnt in long time. If I did again is run high test low tren yeah. High tren gives me nasty sides.

[Leeroid]

Haha, true true. Planning on not being small too much longer though.

 

I'll keep you guys updated when monkey decides to go to 3g.

[Gh14]

bump it up to 5g after this bro.

[Realtalk]

Haha, true true. Planning on not being small too much longer though.

 

I'll keep you guys updated when monkey decides to go to 3g.

Ur a cheeky c*nt.

Inb4 disappointment. Using grams of gear just makes u feel like shit, lethargy etc... There is such thing as too much of a good thing.

sometimes more is actually less.

[Realtalk]

bump it up to 5g after this bro.

Yeah lol well since we up our dosages in 1000mg jumps why the f*ck not.

 

[Realtalk]

So many snoopys ITT.

[Leeroid]

4 comes after 3 you dumb fucks go back to kindergarten

[Leeroid]

All the way up to 13g

[rapz]

Im keen to see where this goes, havnt run deca before, i would turn into a mooshi mess lol 

Tbh your the only one atm that has something interesting to read in the steroid part of forum, a lot of questions are asked but fxck all people log. Il log my contest cycle- that will be floating in the 2-3g  area- spice things up a bit.

 

Anyway onwards bro!!!

[justhell]

Go hard Leeroid Bosin styles .......

[atrollappears]

Im keen to see where this goes, havnt run deca before, i would turn into a mooshi mess lol 

Tbh your the only one atm that has something interesting to read in the steroid part of forum, a lot of questions are asked but fxck all people log. Il log my contest cycle- that will be floating in the 2-3g  area- spice things up a bit.

 

Anyway onwards bro!!!

2-3g ....Your twice his size...!!!!

Research shows doses of anabolics that put levels above normal range, over a period of time your AR count increases (still slightly increasing up to about 6 months) it does not decrease. So over time you can use more and get benefits from higher doses. There will be reduced gains the longer you stay on, over time the over production of the anabolic response in the body will result in some catabolic hormonal increase, therefore a catabolic response..!! The idea is to back off the dose or cruise to lower the catabolic response.. The bigger you get the harder it is to gain muscle, the more muscle gained through drugs, the harder it is for those extra gains. The body is resistant to add muscle beyond a certain threshold... Throwing more drugs into the mix, whilst ignoring what science tell us about those drugs is kinda pointless and stupid...

Good on him for posting up his cycle, but if he's not employing an element of common sense then he's going to get some negativity...

 

[Gh14]

 

 

Im keen to see where this goes, havnt run deca before, i would turn into a mooshi mess lol 

Tbh your the only one atm that has something interesting to read in the steroid part of forum, a lot of questions are asked but fxck all people log. Il log my contest cycle- that will be floating in the 2-3g  area- spice things up a bit.

 

Anyway onwards bro!!!

2-3g ....Your twice his size...!!!!

Research shows doses of anabolics that put levels above normal range, over a period of time your AR count increases (still slightly increasing up to about 6 months) it does not decrease. So over time you can use more and get benefits from higher doses. There will be reduced gains the longer you stay on, over time the over production of the anabolic response in the body will result in some catabolic hormonal increase, therefore a catabolic response..!! The idea is to back off the dose or cruise to lower the catabolic response.. The bigger you get the harder it is to gain muscle, the more muscle gained through drugs, the harder it is for those extra gains. The body is resistant to add muscle beyond a certain threshold... Throwing more drugs into the mix, whilst ignoring what science tell us about those drugs is kinda pointless and stupid...

Good on him for posting up his cycle, but if he's not employing an element of common sense then he's going to get some negativity...

 

Interesting

[Pseudonym]

It may not be recommended practice, but it's produced a good discussion. I'm learning a lot about AAS in general from it. Thanks to all who are contributing.

Here's my dumb question...

If you're already on say 2g test, and you increase it to 3g, does the extra gram really make that much difference? I know that's half as much again, but if your test levels are already umpteen times higher than normal, is that much more really going to make a difference? (Either in benefits, or in side effects?)

I guess what I'm saying is, the law of diminishing returns means you see fewer benefits, right? But equally, if you're going to get side effects, surely you'd already be getting a lot of them at 2g?

[atrollappears]

It may not be recommended practice, but it's produced a good discussion. I'm learning a lot about AAS in general from it. Thanks to all who are contributing.

Here's my dumb question...

If you're already on say 2g test, and you increase it to 3g, does the extra gram really make that much difference? I know that's half as much again, but if your test levels are already umpteen times higher than normal, is that much more really going to make a difference? (Either in benefits, or in side effects?)

I guess what I'm saying is, the law of diminishing returns means you see fewer benefits, right? But equally, if you're going to get side effects, surely you'd already be getting a lot of them at 2g?

Het Pseudo.. There has been some discussion on another forum recently, the question was:

Comparing 4000mg of Test against 1200mg, would there be greater gains, if so would those gains outweigh the side effects?

When comparing high doses the answer depends on how much AR are up-regulated through prolonged High-dose usage..!! Comparing 4000mg to 1200mg there will be no more gains for most people if using gear for a year or so, or less. There is no way AR will be up-regulated enough to benefit from 4000mg… 1.5g – 2g is the absolute maximum dose for gains before AR re-saturation. All that would be gained is more side effects..

If you have been on gear a while, especially if on hGH, the inclusion of hGH will allow you to run more AAS for more gains….

For most people anything over 1.5g is pointless (size and genetics dependent obviously) Not applicable to Rapz..!!

Only if you are a veteran user with extreme goals +hGH would you benefit from or get away with 4000mg per week.. Most people would just get the extra side effects…  

To answer Pseudo directly:  Size, number of years on AAS, plus the number of high dose cycles play a critical part in determining how much AR have up-regulated, therefore how much AAS your body needs to induce or retain gains… Anything over 1.5mg – 2g LEGIT AAS would seem kinda pointless for MOST PEOPLE..!!

I remember bumping up to 2.5g back home in 2010 on genuine pharma gear and the sides crippled me @ 100kgs…!!!!   Mates I knew were on the same dose @ 130-140kgs and managed OK… We’d all been on and off about 25+ years at that point.. Of course the choice of compound(s) has a huge influence on size gained and side effects induced…

Too often I’ve seen young kids copy a cycle posted on the Net by some huge monster of a body-builder with the idea that they will attain that physique if on their cycle. What they neglect to realise is that body-builder may have taken 10-20 years to get to that size and has slowly progressed to that proportion over many years.. Too many people nowadays are wanting a quick fix without putting in the hard yards or understanding the science,  at the expense of their future health…

 

[donz]

Ok so I've read your replies Mr. Troll and just being honest they're quite awesome and I'll follow up to Pseuds question with one similiar in nature...

I've been running since March when I first got on doing 500p/w test-e after about 14 weeks I added tren-a and worked up to 250te/600ta and have been on that since ( and still currently ) when I stop the tren soon I was going to 'cruise' on 250 for a bit then my initial plan was up to 750 ( this is te ) but now I've read this and well I already knew about diminishing effects over time etc but am really confused now if 750 would actually do anything more than 250. Without flamining ( in other words be gentle ) what would your thoughts and anyone elses be on the 750te?

<3

 

edit - not sure if it makes any difference at all but I would be looking at working up to around 110kg area during my bulk, I was at 108 last June but a fair bit too much fat due to reeeeeeeally shit dirty diet. Currently bout 98 same as my pic thingy on the left.

[AZIDE]

Ok so I've read your replies Mr. Troll and just being honest they're quite awesome and I'll follow up to Pseuds question with one similiar in nature...

I've been running since March when I first got on doing 500p/w test-e after about 14 weeks I added tren-a and worked up to 250te/600ta and have been on that since ( and still currently ) when I stop the tren soon I was going to 'cruise' on 250 for a bit then my initial plan was up to 750 ( this is te ) but now I've read this and well I already knew about diminishing effects over time etc but am really confused now if 750 would actually do anything more than 250. Without flamining ( in other words be gentle ) what would your thoughts and anyone elses be on the 750te?

<3

 

edit - not sure if it makes any difference at all but I would be looking at working up to around 110kg area during my bulk, I was at 108 last June but a fair bit too much fat due to reeeeeeeally shit dirty diet. Currently bout 98 same as my pic thingy on the left.

 

my understanding was that you cruise so that your body gets rid of the excessive catabolic hormones that have built up from higher gear doses. otherwise you would just have to keep upping and upping your doses to rediculous levels to make gains. maybe it gives receptors a break too or something?

 

750mg/week test would be fine after a cruise of at least a couple months. you probably dont even need 250/week to cruise on, half that would be ok IMO and may mean better gains when up doses again.

but taper down to it so you dont have heaps of catabolic shit and not much test. thats what id do anyway, im no expert though

[atrollappears]

Ok so I've read your replies Mr. Troll and just being honest they're quite awesome and I'll follow up to Pseuds question with one similiar in nature...

I've been running since March when I first got on doing 500p/w test-e after about 14 weeks I added tren-a and worked up to 250te/600ta and have been on that since ( and still currently ) when I stop the tren soon I was going to 'cruise' on 250 for a bit then my initial plan was up to 750 ( this is te ) but now I've read this and well I already knew about diminishing effects over time etc but am really confused now if 750 would actually do anything more than 250. Without flamining ( in other words be gentle ) what would your thoughts and anyone elses be on the 750te?

Unsure as to what you mean exactly..? I assume you will cruise on 250.... Then you will blast on 750... Am I correct..??  ..... No Tren..!!

How I understand the whole principal behind cruise:

The cruise should be at least equal in length to the blast or longer... As previously stated catabolic hormones become an issue to further gains.. You can either ramp up the dose & the side effects for minimal gains at much expense... Or give your body a rest by cruising....

The whole point of cruise is to get blood and health markers back to normal without loosing your gains themselves.... Blood-pressure, Estrogen, Cholesterol, liver values etc.... On cruise you will loose 2nd'ary charicteristics ie: if running Tren + Masteron, you won't look like your on Tren + Masteron, if on Dbol or Oxymetholone you will loose the water weight but not the lean muscle (you have to be realistic).. Cruise is about health whilst holding onto size + strength...  

Dose is recommended between 125-250mg/week... This is obviously size dependant..!! Really big Body-builders IFBB guys cant really keep gains + size on a cruise dose, unfortunately they cant go below 500mg + hGH before they start shrinking... This is where you get some people thinking they need large doses of multiple compounds to cruise... Slightly over TRT dose is fine for most people, otherwise health markers wont come down sufficiently, and the blast might not be as effective as it could have been if a long enough and low enough cruise was implimented...

Regarding 750mg after sufficient cruise, I'll refer to a comment I've heard recently: Switching compounds is fine if you require different charicteristics ie striated, dryer etc.. compound variation is based upon goals. If your only goal is to make gains.. Run Test year round + use ancilliarys...

750mg is awesome (if legit)... Train hard and eat more.. You don't have to always increase the dose + include more compounds..

[Leeroid]

Some good posts there Daz. Learning a lot!