Need some help

[bleat]

Hey guys and girls,

I've been lifting in an attempt to bulk for a about 7 months now. Reasonably intense dedication- I'm at uni so things (social + academic) occasionally come up which bite into my desired routine, but I stick with it and like to think I'm pretty dedicated.

My diet's in ~check (from what I've read). Typically training day includes:

Meal 1:

6x Weetbix

Apple

Workout-

Meal 2:

PWO shake containing:

1 cup oats

2 Scoops Whey

3 Tbs flaxseed oil

Meal 3:

Maccas Hamburger x2 (okok could be better I know but I will get there!)

Meal 4:

Can Tuna with 3 rolls

Meal 5:

Dinner- Meat + Veges

Meal 6:

Another shake- Same as PWO.

There is some definate room for improvement I know, it's mostly due to time which is a pathetic excuse so I will fix it however...

In the 7 months I haven't experienced an increase in weight.

I'm 19 years old 6'3'' @ 75kg. Not sure of my bodyfat- It's low. I don't look as thin as that sounds so it's odd, light bones who knows! But it's irritating that despite all I have put myself through I haven't gained weight. I've gained muscle and definatly lowered my bodyfat% and look a lot more solid than I used to but not as much as I would have liked and the scales haven't changed.

I've read a LOT, and it doesn't make sense that this isn't working. My strength in terms of how much weight I can lift has more than doubled but I just getting more ripped not packing on slabs of muscle as I would like to!

My workout is a 4 day split: Tris/Chest, Bis/Back, Legs, Abs/Shoulders.

I'm planning on going to the doctor and asking him to test my test levels. I'm lactose intolerant so have had to take soymilk most of my life. All I can think of- in my desperation- is that the soy has lowered my test levels to the extent that I gain like a woman. However before I do is there anything anyone can recommend?

I'm not sick of training at all, my strength is going through the roof at the moment- I've just started on creatine and it's doing a wonderful job!

Sorry for the mess of a post this it- it's all over the place, hopefully you can understand the jist of it, ie:

-I've been 'bulking' for 7 months

-It isn't working

-Think I have done everything right: Diet, Training, Supps

-Unsure of what to do.

Any advice would be appriciated.

Cheers

[Marcus]

Hi Bleat,

Firstly, good on you for having a decent length bulking cycle. Even though it may not be working for you yet, in order to gain some decent weight to that frame you will need to bulk for 7-12 months, I believe.

Diet-wise, I think you need to do the following:

Meal 1: You need some more protein here. Either some whey or whatever else you can get your hands on.

Meal 2: Here I would take a banana or two straight after you train, i.e on the way home, & then 15-20mins later have your shake. Also bump your whey serving up to 4 scoops for your PWO. You need to be taking a lot of protein in at this time. Either that or chop a can of tuna as well.

Meal 3: Eat more. More protein. Have this meal about an hour after meal two. Since it's your first bulk I wouldn't worry about eating clean here.

Meal 4: If it's a 30g protein tin of tuna - cool. If not make it a 30g protein tin. I don't think you need to be 3 rolls however, but I'm not sure of the size.

Meal 5: No problems here, just focus on eating more meat & less potatoes/rice etc to prevent too much BF gain.

Meal 6: I'd make it a quarter cup (or less) of oats. 3 scoops protein powder.

These changes should ensure you gain weight, providing there is nothing behind the scenes that your doctor might pick up.

What's your training like? Are you training hard & to failure with good form?

Hope this helps.

[Cornfed]

Hard to say for sure, but the following might work:

1. Add more calories to your diet. If you're not currently getting fat, there should be room for improvement on that front. A tactic to kickstart weight gain that certainly works the first time you do it is to drink a cup of full cream mixed with ginger ale twice a day, although if you're lactose intolerant then I suppose this wouldn't be an option.

2. Become lazy and lethargic outside of the gym. Never run when you could walk. Never walk when you could sit. Never sit when you could lie down. Never think when you could watch daytime television. Get plenty of sleep. Try not to care about anything. Limit other sporting activities.

3. Make sure your workouts are based primarily on doing full range of motion reps in the major compound exercises. Apparently a particularly good exercise to stimulate weight gain is "breathing squats". This is when you do a set of twenty full rom squats taking one breath for the first five, two for the second five, three for the third five and then as many as you need to complete the twenty. One set of those per week at the right weight should be enough.

I'm not sure what you could do about low test apart from injecting it. Perhaps constantly jacking off to Internet porn would help (seriously).

[Growth]

If your not gaining weight on a bulk then you arent taking in enough calories. I would add at the very least anoth 250cals, and give it a week, if you start to gain hold that level, if you dont increase it by another 250cals, keep increasing the weekly amount by 250cals until you start to see a weight change.

Its unfortunite that you have to use soy product. If your a male you want to stay away from all soy products. You might as well go to the doc to get your bloodwork done, get the test levels taken etc.

[jono]

as mentioned, you're probably not taking in enough callories. also there should be protien with your first meal. you could just put some brown rice and chicken in a container and take it to uni, and eat some whenever you get the chance.. (prepared the night before).. this would help add more calories.

[bleat]

Cheers for the reponses guys, much appriciated

Meal 2: Here I would take a banana or two straight after you train, i.e on the way home, & then 15-20mins later have your shake. Also bump your whey serving up to 4 scoops for your PWO. You need to be taking a lot of protein in at this time. Either that or chop a can of tuna as well.

What's your training like? Are you training hard & to failure with good form?

Hey Marcus, thanks for your input.

Really 4 scoops? Each scoop is 23g of protein, I didn't think I could absorb that much protein in one sitting? Combined with the protein from everything else that's well over 100 grams per shake!

Training has been alright since I started, nothing spectacular, but I'm prettty happy with it. I recently started using creatine a few weeks ago and the gains in strength after are great. Whether they are psychological or not I don't care- although it's a damn expensive placebo!

2. Become lazy and lethargic outside of the gym. Never run when you could walk. Never walk when you could sit. Never sit when you could lie down. Never think when you could watch daytime television. Get plenty of sleep. Try not to care about anything. Limit other sporting activities.

3. Make sure your workouts are based primarily on doing full range of motion reps in the major compound exercises. Apparently a particularly good exercise to stimulate weight gain is "breathing squats". This is when you do a set of twenty full rom squats taking one breath for the first five, two for the second five, three for the third five and then as many as you need to complete the twenty. One set of those per week at the right weight should be enough.

I'm not sure what you could do about low test apart from injecting it. Perhaps constantly jacking off to Internet porn would help (seriously).

Hehe I'm as lazy as possible, I have to walk around a fair bit to get over town to work/class etc. But at home I'm either on the couch, the dinner table, or on the computer. But I'll be lazier

I'm not sure what you could do about low test apart from injecting it. Perhaps constantly jacking off to Internet porn would help (seriously).

"I'm going into my room to uh 'train'- don't disturb me" :pfft: I'll do what I can!

But yeah I'm nearly 20, towards the end of this year I will have been training solid for a year, so I might give PHs a shot depending on what the doctor finds when I go in for a test.

If your not gaining weight on a bulk then you arent taking in enough calories. I would add at the very least anoth 250cals, and give it a week, if you start to gain hold that level, if you dont increase it by another 250cals, keep increasing the weekly amount by 250cals until you start to see a weight change.

as mentioned, you're probably not taking in enough callories. also there should be protien with your first meal. you could just put some brown rice and chicken in a container and take it to uni, and eat some whenever you get the chance.. (prepared the night before).. this would help add more calories.

Cheers guys, I'll go home tonight and cook up a huge ass meal of rice and chicken and put it in boxes for the rest of the week. As a matter of fact I'm going to go and get some tubberware right now so I remember.

Cheers all

Oh, something else I considered could possibly be a factor is that I've been what I suppose people would call suffering from depression for the past 6 months- Don't let the overuse of exclaimation marks fool you Would that alter some sort of chemical balance to bugger it all up?

[Pseudonym]

Woah! Hold it right there!

I strongly suggest you forget about using PHs until you've got a few more years of solid training under your belt. I know they're tempting (jeez, do I know!) but:

- You're still young, and your hormone levels are still fluctuating naturally.

- You need to build up a decent base first for PHs/steroids to be truly effective anyway.

- If you're not gaining anything (even fat) on a bulking diet, the problem is with your diet, and no amount of pharmaceuticals will change that.

Go and find a chemist that does a basic zinc test... Zinc is an important player in the production of testosterone. You might find you're zinc deficient, which could be slowing your progress. I had a zinc deficiency a while back, and I think it really held things up for me.

Other than that... be patient. We'll find this sticking point, and get you back on track sooner or later. It's just a process of elimination.

8)

[bleat]

Woah! Hold it right there!

I strongly suggest you forget about using PHs until you've got a few more years of solid training under your belt. I know they're tempting (jeez, do I know!) but:

- You're still young, and your hormone levels are still fluctuating naturally.

- You need to build up a decent base first for PHs/steroids to be truly effective anyway.

- If you're not gaining anything (even fat) on a bulking diet, the problem is with your diet, and no amount of pharmaceuticals will change that.

Go and find a chemist that does a basic zinc test... Zinc is an important player in the production of testosterone. You might find you're zinc deficient, which could be slowing your progress. I had a zinc deficiency a while back, and I think it really held things up for me.

Other than that... be patient. We'll find this sticking point, and get you back on track sooner or later. It's just a process of elimination.

8)

Ha I was thinking that would get a reaction out of you!

I'll go and get a zinc test this afternoon, I'm drafting up an improved diet as we speak so I'll post back this evening with the results

[Pseudonym]

...and I took the bait!

I don't want you to think I'm against using PHs/roids completely (I'm not, will probably try them myself at some stage) but they shouldn't be the first thing you reach for when you hit a plateau.

BTW - the zinc test should be free, but not all places do it. They give you a thimble-full of mouth-wash stuff, and if it tastes so foul you spit it back in their face, your zinc levels are fine. :pfft:

[Marcus]

Really 4 scoops? Each scoop is 23g of protein, I didn't think I could absorb that much protein in one sitting? Combined with the protein from everything else that's well over 100 grams per shake!

What sort of protein are you using? I think you'll find that 23g is per serve, which is usually 2-3 scoops, not per scoop. Unless you have one big scooper!

And forget about taking PH's until you have at least another 20kgs + on your frame.

[deegee]

You are not eating anywhere near enough food.

You 6'3" and 19, still growing. You need to take in maybe another 2 meals a day. Up the complex carbs somewhat and just EAT.

2 Hamburgers for a meal of someone your age hieght is just something you eat while making or thinking about what to have next. Not a meal initself.

You are obviously at maintanace or just above.

it should be a struggle just sitting down and pushing the food in. More and bigger meals.

get a good multi vit that should be enough if you are worried about that.

You are not really ready for steroids/Ph's at the moment I dont feel they would do you any good. You need to get more food in.

PS Eat more!

[Tammy]

I would say you are a hard gainer. You basically need to eat until you are sick of eating. Increase the carbs, fats and protein!! Good luck!!!

[Growth]

Agree with the others on the Phs and or steroids.

The general guidelines are that you should be at the very minimum, 21 years old, at the minimum.

You should already have alot of bbing experience, ie 3+ years of solid weight lifting.

Basically you want to max out your potential before you start using them, that way you will get the best results.

[Cornfed]

I realize that posting this suggestion may be sacrilege in a bodybuilding forum, but have you considered that you might be better off staying the way you are rather than getting a great deal more muscular?

[carma]

I agree with the others about the food. I think you definately need to increase, protein, fat and carbs.

Wish yourself lucky, some of us would love to be able to eat heaps like you.

Cornfed... What are you talking about 'maybe he should stay the size he is?? I say grow, grow, grow!!!

I'm sure you'll see some gains if you increase your food and continue training hard.

[bleat]

Thanks all, I suspected I need to improve my diet, but from everything I've read about about how to bulk, ie- Work out your maintenance level and add several hundred calories onto that a week, it isn't working. I know that before I started trying to bulkup I was eating much much less than I currently am.

I do have a lightening fast metabolism, but it's occuring to me that perhaps I'm just eating this food and sending it back out without absorbing the nutrients? My understanding becomes pretty hazy round about now so perhaps that doesn't make sense. I just don't understand why my weight hasn't gone up since consuming more than I used to- taking into account calories burnt at the gym.

I'll give it 100% for 6 months and see where it gets me so I'll start a workout journal tomorrow. What should I buy to keep an accurate track of my progress? The scales at the gym are pretty old school so I was thinking some digital ones so I can measure myself first thing in the morning. Also kitchen scales as it would be nice to know how much I am eating so I can increase or whatever. I'll chuck up what I did/ate each day and if you guys from time to time could bitch at me to eat more or lift harder it would be appriciated

Cornfed: You haven't been paid to say that by my mother or my ex have you? Both of them, especially the latter are/were against the idea of it :S