How do you deal with failure?

[Pseudonym]

This isn't some philosophical post (although that could be interesting too). I'm talking specifically in a powerlifting sense...

 

Doing my 5/3/1 powerlifting training, and have gone through 4-5 mesocycles with increasing weights, I'm at the point where things are now getting quite challenging. The surplus on my AMRAP sets has shrunk to almost nothing, and it was only a matter of time before I got a "Not Achieved" mark on the scorecard.

 

It finally happened the other night. I was meant to do 3 squats, and I failed after 2. I was not happy.

 

In retrospect, I probably should have rested a bit, and had another crack at it. (Is that allowed?) If I'd got it, my program wouldn't have thrown me into a deload week as it now has.

 

This week was supposed to be my 1RM week (or rather, 1+, because it's an AMRAP set). Instead, the progam has scaled everything back to deload weights... but still left me doing the prescribed 1+ reps. That'll be piss-easy, and frankly, seems like a total waste of time. I don't feel fatigued - so extra rest is not the answer. It's simply that I'm now starting to push my limits, so occasional failure goes with the territory.

 

So the question is: how important is this deload thing after failure? Is it something I can choose to ignore and just carry on with the program?

[maccaz]

Go by feel. If you're sure you dont need deload you dont need it. Could potentially pick up where you left off and redo that session and if all good continue as planned.

Could have just been an off set. It happens

[shatterr]

Time to double your efforts or quit

[Skeletor]

I always go by feel to. Sometimes you do just have a bad days lifting. Sometimes a whole week. I tend to follow programs that if I miss lifts I can attempt the whole week again next week and if I still stuff up then I drop back a few weeks and come back again like a wave going in and out. I normally pass the mark I failed at last time and move on. The deload is in there for a reason though. Sometimes you dont feel like you need a break when in fact you do. If the program calls for it then follow it I say and attack it again

[teamfatboy]

Put it into perspective/ the bigger picture.

Was it down to fatigue, nutrition, external stressors?

The chances are that there's clues to the shy, even tho at some points we all fail. It's the downside of having those great days where every rep pops up nicely.

[BeastBuilder]

When I ran 5/3/1 for about five mesocycles (Don't quote that, I think, might have been four or six) plus a four week peak for a comp (Same layout as 5/3/1) I put about 100kg on my total (510>600+) plus around 10kg of bodyweight (Early 90s>100+).I also never missed any reps, always ended up smashing the rep goals. So 5/3/1 agreed with me big time so take this as you will. It was when I was posting here so there's a record in my journal somewhere just ceebs finding it on my phone but have a look if you want.

When I ran 5/3/1 I never missed a deload. It's there for a reason and if you take it out you're no longer doing 5/3/1 really. Few people who were running 5/3/1 at the same time as me skipped dealoads as they were impatient and ended up stalling out.

Trust in the programming, especially one like 5/3/1, they don't just throw things in randomly for the sake of it.

It's more of a case of one step back but three steps forward I think the way it's set out, and over a long period it pays off.

With the missing reps if it says to deload, do it. You'll just come back the next week hungrier and more mentally into it as you'll want to nail it. Body and CNS will be fresh, could be fatigued now even though you feel fine.

Could just be one bad session but you're here for the marathon so be paitient and follow the guidelines.

Worst case, take a deload for a few days (3-5), retest your maxes and restart the whole process again. I guarantee you're maxes will be higher than five months ago.

And to make sure it doesn't happen again, eat and sleep more, solves everything haha.

[OnlyHuman]

If the issue is under recovery. Re-setting your numbers makes perfect sense (let you catch up with recovery because the stressor will be less than your ability to recover).

 

Do you think the volume was enough to drive your progress?

 

Do you think the assistance exercises picked were applicable to your percived weaknesses? 

 

You recon you got stronger? 

[Pseudonym]

Thanks everyone. Yeah, I’ve been very happy with the progress I’ve made under 5/3/1. Lifts are increasing across the board, and my weight’s jumped up too. So overall, I’m stoked.

I don’t remember whether I was particularly tired – although it’s a distinct possibility.

Don’t get me wrong – I fully accept the need for deload weeks. But what I’m wondering is whether the app that I’m using to track everything (Wendlerised) is treating them correctly.

According to Wendlerised, this mesocycle would look like this:
Week 1: 5 reps @ 65%, 5 reps @ 75%, 5 reps @ 85%
Week 2: 3 reps @ 70%, 3 reps @ 80%, 3 reps @ 90% (and here I only achieved 2 reps)
Week 3 would have been: 5 reps @ 75%, 3 reps @ 85%, 1 rep @ 95%
Instead, it’s set the deload by rolling the numbers back to the weights I pushed 3 mesocycles ago – which are now quite light indeed.
And then week 4, as the pre-programmed deload week, is STILL a deload week:
Week 4: 5 reps @ 40%, 5 reps @ 50%, 5 reps @ 60%

So essentially that means I have a failure week, followed by 2 deload weeks in a row. Does that look right?

 

Do you think the volume was enough to drive your progress?
 
Do you think the assistance exercises picked were applicable to your percived weaknesses?

I'm not sure what you mean about the volume? I thought the idea of 5/3/1 was this worked without lots of volume?

 

My assistance stuff is more general bodybuilding training. And as for perceived weaknesses, the only weakness I perceive is that I'm piss-weak!

[OnlyHuman]

Volume decides the magnitude of effect. Big volume ... big training effect (but takes longer to recover from). At some stage the volume applied won't be enough to disturb your body's homeostasis enough to force adaptation. Generally .... over time volume of work should increase in order to drive adaptation. Eg: Sheiko (templates) across classifications increase volume in order to drive progress. 

 

Bodybuilding assistance work can be helpfull. I wish I done more of that in the past. 

 

 

So IMHO if you were just under recovering ... re-setting makes sense. If you stopped progressing but you were recoveriung from your workouts... I would slightly change the program to one of the updated versions from Beyond 5/3/1 by Wendler. Eg First set last or multiple sets of first set last. This would increase volume (even if you reset your numbers). Just my humble opinion. Good luck !!!!

[Pseudonym]

Isn't it the progressive overload (ie, continually lifting heavier) that forces adaptation in 5/3/1? I thought the whole point of this training method was because (as you say) eventually there comes a point where increasing the volume becomes impractical - workouts take too long, recovery is too slow, etc.

 

I'm a bit confused about how overload and volume relate to each other.

[OnlyHuman]

Overload is the main drive of adaptation. However, overload is not only just about lifting heavier weights...

 

Lifting the same weight for more reps  or sets (volume overload)... or decreasing rest between sets (increasing work density) are types of overload as well. So is increasing time under tension with the same weight/reps/set up (pausing the first rep for example) .... you simply asking the body to do more work = a type of overload.

 

What you might think about is the fixed amount of increments they ask you to increase every cycle. Eg 2.5 kg jump when your work sets are 60 kg or 120 represent a significantly different percentage of "change" thus stimuli.  

 

Changing to a slightly different version of 5/3/1 might be what you need (or not...) It certainly wouldn't mean that you abandoned your program. You would still be doing 5/3/1 by Wendler just an IMHO good luck what ever you decide to do. 

[tyreguy]

Going to drop back weight 15-20kgs on 1rm for Back Squat.

I feel this will help.

The next cycle for squats at week 3 had me doing AMRAP @150

See how I go anyway.

[donz]

Im currently doing my first ever program that I got from this guy in Aus, he said to make sure i never fail on a rep and if i think i might come close to drop the weight slightly but to always hit rep-range is more important.

 

Before now I've just yolo-lifted, if i felt strong just try lift more haha failed heaps of lifts that way, probably why lack of progress since last year

[Gym rat]

Since I am cutting and if I fail with a certain weight that I am using. Get six reps think I could be happy with that were normly get ten with reps because of having more food in me

[Dinahlady]

Didnt read whole thread but thought if you find you are failing to meet the sets/reps very often then you should drop the weight back/reassess. If its just one time then its probably all good, but if it keeps happening... 

[HarryB]

I think you blame the process and whatever you do don't look at the things you should be doing to make the programme work.