Androgenicity

[Kalidane]

For a guy, why take test stacked with an oral with high androgenicity?

Anadrol is super androgenic, and I just don't get why it is effective for growth.

Why not test and a highly anabolic compound? Deca seems legit, maybe anavar

[Realtalk]

Test and deca is best bro, king of mass builders.

[I Declare War]

Regarding the androgenic potency of of Anadrol, you may want to do some more reading.

 

Anadrol is a highly anabolic yet mildly androgenic steroid. It is about three times as anabolic as Testosterone and half as androgenic. It's pretty much on par with Deca and Dianabol when it comes to its androgenicity.

 

Some reading:

http://www.steroid.com/Anabolic-Androgenic-Steroids.php

[Leeroid]

Not too sure whether actually true but I have read that drugs with high androgenicity are good for strength gains and aggression without weight or mass gain. So good for fighters and strength athletes.

[kiwicannon]

Not too sure whether actually true but I have read that drugs with high androgenicity are good for strength gains and aggression without weight or mass gain. So good for fighters and strength athletes.

 

^^This^^^

 

So fark Analdrol!......SuperDrol is where its at :yes:

[Pseudonym]

Analdrol

 

Yeah, I can see how this might increase aggression.

[Kalidane]

Regarding the androgenic potency of of Anadrol, you may want to do some more reading.

Anadrol is a highly anabolic yet mildly androgenic steroid. It is about three times as anabolic as Testosterone and half as androgenic. It's pretty much on par with Deca and Dianabol when it comes to its androgenicity.

Some reading:

http://www.steroid.com/Anabolic-Androgenic-Steroids.php

Thanks for that. Couldn't find that one on my phone.

Re-read it now and am still trying to get my head around.

[Daz69]

Oxymetholone Big Cat:

 

Although the mechanism of Anadrol action hasn?t been studied very well, it?s one of the few compounds that has been tested in so many studies, on so many people, for so many different things, in such wildly varying doses (usually 1-5 mg/kg bodyweight)

 

Anadrol is not a very potent anabolic. People don?t like to hear that, since its commonly used as a mass drug, but it?s a very poor ligand for the androgen receptor because of its bulky 2-methylene group, and there is a reason its run at such high doses, even in clinical studies. Common bodybuilding doses are 50-200 mg per day, but the 1-5 mg per kg I referenced, used in clinical studies, earlier, amounts to 91-455 mg per day for a 200 lbs person. That means if any of us here were partaking in a clinical study with anadrol, none of us would be taking less than 75 mg, most no less than 100 mg, provided you were in the LOWEST dose group. Not a single androgen was ever used in such doses clinically, which speaks a lot to its weaker anabolic activity, relative to other AAS.

 

The main issue with fully elucidating Anadrol?s effect is that it metabolizes into a wild array of compounds that may all have some biological activity at type I nuclear receptors, and therefore we can?t go just by its own structure and say it should behave like this?, like we can for most AAS. It even has some unusual secosteroid metabolites that are entirely unique. But we can make a number of deductions based on both experience and the main metabolites.

 

One such is that Anadrol may actually be more androgenic than it is anabolic. The other is that Anadrol is most definitely estrogenic BUT IS VERY UNLIKELY TO CAUSE GYNO. Let?s start with the androgenic part. The parent steroid will bind as weakly in androgenically sensitive tissues as in muscle, so you would expect its androgenic potential to be on par with its anabolic potential. But one key metabolite of oxymetholone is mestanolone (methyl-DHT, it basically loses its 2-hydroxymethylene group) and like DHT, mestanolone is readily metabolized to its 3alpha-hydroxy form in muscle, but not in scalp, skin, prostate and so on. Of course the metabolisation to mestanolone is only a portion, so even in the high doses, its unlikely to rival taking pure mestanolone (excretion studies suggest about 1/5th is converted)

 

On the estrogenic front things get interesting. First of all we have conclusive evidence that Anadrol DOES NOT AROMATIZE (so to the person taking an AI above, that?s sort of pointless) and does NOT bind the progesterone receptor AT ALL. Renowned organic chemist Patrick Arnold once noted it could bind the ER directly because it has an acidic A-ring, and the data seems to confirm this. Mestanolone, the metabolite, readily converts, especially in muscle, to methyl-androstanediol, and the parent oxymetholone could behave exactly like methyl-androstanediol because the hydroxymethylone group extends far enough to pass for a 3-hydroxyl group. Androstanediol is a physiological estrogen, known to selectively bind the Estrogen receptor, especially in the brain. HOWEVER (and this is a big one) androstanediol is directly created, physiologically, from DHT. Neither DHT nor mestanolone, nor any such product has ever been known to cause gyno. Indeed, it does not appear that androstanediols (saturated A-ring steroids with a C19 and a 3alpha-hydroxy group) are estrogenic in the breast. In fact some of you may have directly taken these products since both androstanediol (3-alpha) and methyl-androstanediol (Methyl-3-alpha) were available as prohormones at some time or another. If you did, you know they were not believed to be estrogenic in the sense an AAS user considers something estrogenic, despite the fact that they are known physiologically active estrogens. Hence it is extremely unlikely that oxymetholone or its major metabolites can cause or aggravate gyno. The plethora of studies seems to confirm this, as one study in 1985 used it to TREAT gyno, and a wide range of studies never once remarked on the appearance of gyno as a possible side-effect, even in doses in excess of 300 mg (including studies using 200 mg for 20 weeks). However since it is distinctly estrogenic in other tissues, it is likely some of its effects are mediated by the estrogen receptor.

 

In regards to water retention, it is unclear if there is a link to its estrogenic nature, but oxymetholone is known to drastically increase blood pressure, an effect likely mediated downstream of ACE causing increase mineralocorticoid action. Use of an ACE inhibitor can alleviate most symptoms associated with oxymetholone use, including water retention and high blood pressure. This is likely why its garnering some attention as a prep drug, since people in prep often use ACE inhibitors and/or diuretics, which nullify increased blood pressure and bloat, allowing the strength effects (since it?s a known neuro-estrogen this could directly relate to its amazing strength effects) to help you without any real side-effects, even in relatively high doses.

 

Many studies remark the liver toxicity of anadrol, but its hard to get an actual read on just how bad it is, and it may be that different individuals respond differently. In some studies lower doses over short periods of time already alarmingly raise liver enzyme levels, while a study with 200 mg for 20 weeks seemed to not have a higher incidence of liver problems than those other studies.

[yeelang]

for me personally anadrol is one of those drugs you just have to try and see if it's for you... on paper it's a mess.

 

the great thing about orals is you can try then out for a couple of weeks and they are cheap.

 

I don't like any drugs that bind that poorly to AR, the gains I'm getting are superficial and don't last the stretch imo.

 

also take anabolic/andro ratios with a grain of salt because it doesn't take into account binding affinity.

[kiwicannon]

I have to agree with yeelang.

 

Anadrol for me was a tough experience great "short term gains" but overall too many sides for me personally. Stacked with dbol at lower dosages worked a real treat! (for me),  however I've fallen in love with Methasterone and will not look back.

[Kalidane]

The tldr seems to be try stuff and see how it goes.

That sure beats theory-cycling from keyboard gym rats!

Good stuff guys

[Daz69]

For a guy, why take test stacked with an oral with high androgenicity?

Anadrol is super androgenic, and I just don't get why it is effective for growth.

Why not test and a highly anabolic compound? Deca seems legit, maybe anavar

 

Its good for increasing intracellular water, hence its potential for quick gains in skeletal muscle volume... 

 

Awesome stack: Test 750-Deca 800-Dbol 80-Oxymetholone 100....

[Daz69]

Not too sure whether actually true but I have read that drugs with high androgenicity are good for strength gains and aggression without weight or mass gain. So good for fighters and strength athletes.

 

I've noticed aggression was high on oxymetholone..!! Anavar also..

[kiwicannon]

Its good for increasing intracellular water, hence its potential for quick gains in skeletal muscle volume... 

 

Awesome stack: Test 750-Deca 800-Dbol 80-Oxymetholone 100....

Like i said Dbol + A50 great synergy! but shit the bed my eyeballs would be bleeding at dat der doses bro!

 

How long would you run the Orals at those doses? is that Peak doses? or straight off the bat?.....

[Daz69]

Like i said Dbol + A50 great synergy! but shit the bed my eyeballs would be bleeding at dat der doses bro!

 

How long would you run the Orals at those doses? is that Peak doses? or straight off the bat?.....

 

3 months on was my usual cycle length... orals split into 4 doses/day....

Best not to look at liver values..lol 

[Kalidane]

And I heard madmen was cancelled