Usual Suspect Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 With so many people asking similar questions like 'What should I run for my first cycle', 'Im scared of needles, can I just take Oral Steroids' I thought Id write up a quick beginners guide for taking steroids that is completely based on my own experiences and things I have seen with my own eyes. It may be controversial and you may not agree with me. I am not going to go on about the sides, because that is well documented and you can google that. I will say aside from a little bit of acne, more body hair and your nuts shrinking a little bit the biggest side effect would be your muscles grow massive :twisted: So you have been training at the gym for a while now and you've been considering adding some muscle mass by using Steroids? First of all you have to realise Steroids are not just a drug like Cannabis or P. You cant just pick it up and drop it as you please. It is a commitment. And YES, you HAVE TO USE NEEDLES. Oral only cycles are a waste of time. Yes you will put on size while you are on, but you will generally lose it all when you come off. People talk about waiting till you reach your natural potential before you start using. I'm not exactly sure what point they are talking about but for me I would say you have to tick off the following two conditionsA. You are 20 years or overB. You have your training and Nutrition sortedWhen I say sorted I mean you have to already be in a routine of going to the gym and training your arse off at least 4 times a week and have been doing so for at least 6 months. And you have to have a good understanding on what is good food, its macronutrient profile (Protein, Carbs and Fat), and you're already eating good food at regular intervals.Alot of people will say you should be over 25 minimum. Why? Because you're naturally producing high levels of testosterone? You show me the results of a 23 year old guy with anywhere near natural test levels of a 30 year old guy on 500mg sus a week and I will show you a doctored result. I say 20 because at that age you should be able to make an adult, informed decision whether or not steroids is for you. And some people will say you must have been training for at least 4 years before you jump on. I see lots of guys that have trained for 10 and I still wouldnt say they are ready to jump on. To me its not about how long you have trained, its about how ready you are. I dont like to see it but I have seen guys jump on after 6 months and they have made and continue to make awesume gains. Its just the guys who start training in September and jump on in October so they look good for the beach that piss me off. Okay so you have decided Steroids is a path you would like to go down.RULE NUMBER ONEDont tell Anyone you are using. Okay, aside from a couple of trusted close mates or training partners its best to keep it to yourself. We are talking about an illegal drug here. Penaltys if you get caught with it from the police are pretty minor but it is the social stigma that is the killer. For some reason people think you can just pop a pill or jab yourself and you will look like Arnold. If only it was that easy lol. So all your hard earned gains will be written off. So dont tell your missus. Dont tell your mum. Dont tell your workmates and definately dont tell your boss!If people hit you up about it, tell them you take that as a compliment for your hardwork. If they persist tell them you have considered using and you think you'll wait 'until you reach your natural potential first'. Or tell them you are keen, due you know where you can get some. Anything to throw them off the scent. For some reason if you tell someone that you smoke weed, they are like, boys will be boys, but if you tell them you use steroids you are worse than Fritzel. Go figure. Yes it is commonly used amongst all walks of life, work fields and sports (professional included). I wish we could be more honest about it.RULE NUMBER TWOPlan your cycle out. How long will you be on. What are you hoping to acheive? Cutting? Bulking? Both? Have you got any overseas holidays coming up? Sit down with a calender and write out a plan. Make sure you will have enough money to get everything you will need. The optimum situation is to have everything on hand before you start. Most cycles run anywhere from 10-14 weeks. Thats 3 months so you wanna be prepared.RULE NUMBER THREENo drinking Alcohol. AT ALL. The whole cycle. Okay maybe having 1 beer once or twice throughout the whole cycle wont hurt. But you really cant be getting on the piss halfway thru. Tell people you're on antibiotics if they hassle you. RULE NUMBER FOURBe Prepared to come off. Anyone can go on gear. It takes a man to come off. Yes you will lose a little bit of size and a bit of strength when you come off. But it is important for the body to return to natural for a while. Have PCT on hand. Keep Training. The good thing is when you do go back on the body rebounds and gets bigger and stronger than when you came off pretty quick. You should aim to come off for at least 6-8 weeks between cycles. I would recommend getting your bloodwork tested but thats another topic.RULE NUMBER FIVEIf shit hits the fan, Dont lie to your doctor. If you get sick or infection or something completely unrelated happens, be completely honest with your doctor about your cycle. He wont tell the police or your family. He needs to know to treat you.Okay so next thing you need to do is Decide what cycle you are going to run.This is what I would recommend someone run first cycleI have chosen Sustanon 250 because its a fantastic all round testWeeks 1 - 4 500mg Sus per week + 20mg Dbol tabs per dayWeeks 5 - 12 500mg Sus per weekWeek 14 - 15 40mg Nolva per dayWeek 16 - 17 20mg Nolva per dayInjecting 1ml of Sus twice a week. Say Monday night and Thursday night. Take the dbol in one hit before training.Some may say this is too high for some people, but Im of the thinking that you will never explode as much as you do on your first cycle, so you might as well do a reasonable one. If the sides are getting out of control then you can choose to tone the cycle down. If you're eating and training right you would expect to gain around 5-10kg of muscle mass and drop a bit of fat as well. In a good second, third and beyond cycles you can choose to run exactly the same as above or add in a couple of thingsIEWeek 1 - 4 750mg Sus per week + 400mg Deca per week + 40mg Dbol per dayWeek 4 - 10 750mg sus per week + 400mg per week Week 11 - 14 750mg Sus per week + 500mg per weekThen PCTOr increase the amount of Test they use. Up to 1000mg per week is still pretty intermediate, when you go above that you are getting a bit more serious. Some people choose not to run sus (Which is made up of 4 different esters) they will run individual esters like Test Enanthate or Test Propinate. Prop has a shorter halflife so has to be injected more often. Most people choose to inject Prop every second day. Good gains can be made this way.Okay onto some frequently asked QuestionsWhere do I get steroids from?Im not going to name any sources, but I will say it is not that hard to obtain. Like all drugs there are underdosed and fake stuff out there. You just have to be wary.What size needles and barrels will I need?You will need 3ml Barrels and a selection of 23 and 25 gauge 1 1/4 inch needles. I recommend using the 23s in your quads and glutes and 25s in delts.Where do I get all the needles and Barrels?All the main cities across NZ have Needle Exchanges or Aids awareness centres that will provide you with all the utensils you will need. Google them to find their locations. They are discreet and non-judgmental and very cheap (or free).I got my steroids in an ampule. How do I open it and get it out? Make sure all the liquid is in the bottom half of the ampule first. There is a small dot below the lid. Place your thumb there and crack the top back or forward, should click right off. Use a paper towel on your hand if you are scared first time. Suck up the gear into the syringe.How do I get my sus out of the Vial?Wipe the top of the vial with a swap. Put a needle on top of a barrel. While the sheath is still on, pull back until you have air equivalent to how much sus you are wanting to take out of the vial. Remove sheath. Push Needle into top of vial, expel air into the vial. Tip upside down and pull back plunger so that the sus starts filling the syringe. Once you have the desired amount, push plunger back in so all air bubbles are pushed back into the vial. Its not so bad if there are a few tiny bubbles in the syringe.Where should I inject?I recommend going Right delt, Left Quad, Left Delt, Right Quad and repeating. Some people like injecting there glute, but I find it a hassle and if I gets a bit of a pain sitting on it afterwards.How should I inject?Also swap the area first with an alcoholic wipe. Push the needle in all the way. Pull back on the plunger slightly, check for any blood and make sure you havent gone into a vein (blood will run up into the syringe if you have). Push the plunger down at a steady pace until all the gear has gone into your body. I always leave the needle in for a few seconds to make sure it all seeps out then pull the needle out at a steady pace. Then rub another swab over the site and mop up any blood that comes out.What about Clenbuterol?Clenbuterol is one of the most toxic things you can run, but also one of the best agents for dropping fat around. You should start by taking 40mg a day then slowly increase it by 20mg a day till you reach your max. You will know you have reached it cos your body shakes involuntarily and you get the jitters. Back off the next day then go up again. The highest you would want to run is 160mg per day. Run it at your highest level for 2 weeks then come down 20mg a day to 40mg again. Stop using it completely for 2 weeks then start all over again. So hopefully that helps someone. This is just a general beginners guide from my point of view, it gets alot more scientific from here. Good luck and have fun :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 ., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usual Suspect Posted November 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Good spotting LuigiYes don't take 40ml of Clen your first day. That will probably kill you :pfft: *edited* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Good spotting LuigiYes don't take 40ml of Clen your first day. That will probably kill you :pfft: *edited*shot, just remember its in mcg not mg too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsammce Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 A. You are 20 years or overWhy 20 or over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsammce Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 How do I get my sus out of the Vial?Wipe the top of the vial with a swap. Put a needle on top of a barrel. While the sheath is still on, pull back until you have air equivalent to how much sus you are wanting to take out of the vial. Remove sheath. Push Needle into top of vial, expel air into the vial. Tip upside down and pull back plunger so that the sus starts filling the syringe. Once you have the desired amount, push plunger back in so all air bubbles are pushed back into the vial. Its not so bad if there are a few tiny bubbles in the syringe.How do i get Deca out of the vial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsammce Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 This is what I would recommend someone run first cycleI have chosen Sustanon 250 because its a fantastic all round testWeeks 1 - 4 500mg Sus + 20mg Dbol tabs per dayWeeks 5 - 12 500mg Sus per dayWeek 14 - 15 40mg Nolva per dayWeek 16 - 17 20mg Nolva per dayInjecting 1ml of Sus twice a week. Say Monday night and Thursday night. Take the dbol in one hit before training.Some may say this is too high for some people, but Im of the thinking that you will never explode as much as you do on your first cycle, so you might as well do a reasonable one. If the sides are getting out of control then you can choose to tone the cycle down. If you're eating and training right you would expect to gain around 5-10kg of muscle mass and drop a bit of fat as well. In a good second, third and beyond cycles you can choose to run exactly the same as above or add in a couple of thingsIEWeek 1 - 4 750mg Sus + 400mg Deca + 40mg Dbol per dayWeek 4 - 10 750mg Sus + 400mg Deca Week 11 - 14 750mg Sus + 500mg TrenThen PCTOr increase the amount of Test they use. Up to 1000mg per week is still pretty intermediate, when you go above that you are getting a bit more serious. dude, do u mind? zoomg... i read this shit and face palm myself. this is a beginners guide to fucking themselves up lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usual Suspect Posted November 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Zomg Tom Im sure you can figure out how to take other stuff out of their vials lolWhat is it that you don't agree with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usual Suspect Posted November 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 A. You are 20 years or overWhy 20 or over?As I said in the post, I think you are adult enough to make the decision to go down the steroid path at 20. I personally would think twice before helping out an 18 year old, but if he was fully committed then yeah, go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigga Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Read the start and I think it's great. A really good idea and informative post mate. Cheers for putting the time in to writing it all I'm sure other people in the know can contribute to what you wrote. liked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsammce Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 i just think people should start on a lower dosage for first cycle say 250mg/week. if you got your eating and training right then u gonna explode on it, u use 500mg for ur first cycle then u are saying use dbol deca and tren for your 2nd and third. u telling beginners 1000mg of test is a moderate (intermediate) dose of test. so then where do u go when u are 1 year down the track after your two or 3 cycles? not to mention the bill ull be footing.2 years ago i used grams of gear wasted so much money. people get obsessed with taking as much gear as they can afford and stacking this with that. i now using 500mg test with 200mg deca and getting best results iv ever had coz my eating is on point and so is my training. all 1000mg of test plus whatever else u running to compliment it is juts gonna make u feel like shit and give some newbie the sides of his life.as for 20 years of age, well i dont agree with any age within reason. some one might be 18 and have been doing bodybuilding for 3 years and then there is someone whos 20 and been doing it 3 months.. also i know some 18 year olds who are more adult thatn 25 year olds lol so if your gonna say an age at least have a decent reason and say mid to late 20's when natural test is starting to decline.at end of day its just someones opinion, and most of the time its people telling other people to do exactly the opposite to what they did lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclenz Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Good basic useful information but I would recommend using Enanthate over Sustanon in a first cycle. Its less complicated being a standard long acting ester of testosterone, where Sustanon 250 contains 4 esters of testosterone (propionate 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate 60 mg, and testosterone decanoate 100 mg). This mixture includes short, medium, and long-acting esters. As much as it gets the test levels up quickly with the short esters you are not getting as much long term ester in with only 100mg deconoate. So effectively you need a higher dose of Sust to achieve this. 500mg Sust PW is the bare minimum. Additionally, there is some debate as to whether you should be pinning Sust more regularly to achieve stable blood levels. Ideally, due to the short acting esters half life of 2-3 days, it is often recommended as being delivered EOD. This is obviously not ideal for a beginner who want to pin once or twice PW. Generally its more expensive ml for ml vs Enanthate. Some will argue against this I know but thats my 2c worth. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclenz Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 i just think people should start on a lower dosage for first cycle say 250mg/week. if you got your eating and training right then u gonna explode on it, u use 500mg for ur first cycle then u are saying use dbol deca and tren for your 2nd and third. u telling beginners 1000mg of test is a moderate (intermediate) dose of test. so then where do u go when u are 1 year down the track after your two or 3 cycles? not to mention the bill ull be footing.2 years ago i used grams of gear wasted so much money. people get obsessed with taking as much gear as they can afford and stacking this with that. i now using 500mg test with 200mg deca and getting best results iv ever had coz my eating is on point and so is my training. all 1000mg of test plus whatever else u running to compliment it is juts gonna make u feel like shit and give some newbie the sides of his life.as for 20 years of age, well i dont agree with any age within reason. some one might be 18 and have been doing bodybuilding for 3 years and then there is someone whos 20 and been doing it 3 months.. also i know some 18 year olds who are more adult thatn 25 year olds lol so if your gonna say an age at least have a decent reason and say mid to late 20's when natural test is starting to decline.at end of day its just someones opinion, and most of the time its people telling other people to do exactly the opposite to what they did lol250mg of Sust will not cut the mustard. It barely kicks the HPTA out due to the mixed esters in the compound. Its basically what your Doc prescribes for Hormone Replacement Therapy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
train hard Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 some good info in there for newbies . The only thing i would say is that i believe you get better results with steroids if you can build a solid foundation first naturally and your body is well trained this can take a few years regardless of your age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsammce Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 i just think people should start on a lower dosage for first cycle say 250mg/week. if you got your eating and training right then u gonna explode on it, u use 500mg for ur first cycle then u are saying use dbol deca and tren for your 2nd and third. u telling beginners 1000mg of test is a moderate (intermediate) dose of test. so then where do u go when u are 1 year down the track after your two or 3 cycles? not to mention the bill ull be footing.2 years ago i used grams of gear wasted so much money. people get obsessed with taking as much gear as they can afford and stacking this with that. i now using 500mg test with 200mg deca and getting best results iv ever had coz my eating is on point and so is my training. all 1000mg of test plus whatever else u running to compliment it is juts gonna make u feel like shit and give some newbie the sides of his life.as for 20 years of age, well i dont agree with any age within reason. some one might be 18 and have been doing bodybuilding for 3 years and then there is someone whos 20 and been doing it 3 months.. also i know some 18 year olds who are more adult thatn 25 year olds lol so if your gonna say an age at least have a decent reason and say mid to late 20's when natural test is starting to decline.at end of day its just someones opinion, and most of the time its people telling other people to do exactly the opposite to what they did lol250mg of Sust will not cut the mustard. It barely kicks the HPTA out due to the mixed esters in the compound. Its basically what your Doc prescribes for Hormone Replacement Therapy sus, enanthate, cypionate... doesnt matter... i doubt a hrt patient would use 250mg/weekly... more like monthly..i used 250mg of sus for 8 weeks for my first cycle and gained 8kg while losing bodyfat. one of my family members has just done the same but for 10 weeks and gone from 90kg to 100 with same bodyfat.250mg/week of sus will raise ur test levels way above normal. even 100mg of test a week will give u higher than natural levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbig Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 i just think people should start on a lower dosage for first cycle say 250mg/week. if you got your eating and training right then u gonna explode on it, u use 500mg for ur first cycle then u are saying use dbol deca and tren for your 2nd and third. u telling beginners 1000mg of test is a moderate (intermediate) dose of test. so then where do u go when u are 1 year down the track after your two or 3 cycles? not to mention the bill ull be footing.2 years ago i used grams of gear wasted so much money. people get obsessed with taking as much gear as they can afford and stacking this with that. i now using 500mg test with 200mg deca and getting best results iv ever had coz my eating is on point and so is my training. all 1000mg of test plus whatever else u running to compliment it is juts gonna make u feel like shit and give some newbie the sides of his life.as for 20 years of age, well i dont agree with any age within reason. some one might be 18 and have been doing bodybuilding for 3 years and then there is someone whos 20 and been doing it 3 months.. also i know some 18 year olds who are more adult thatn 25 year olds lol so if your gonna say an age at least have a decent reason and say mid to late 20's when natural test is starting to decline.at end of day its just someones opinion, and most of the time its people telling other people to do exactly the opposite to what they did lol250mg of Sust will not cut the mustard. It barely kicks the HPTA out due to the mixed esters in the compound. Its basically what your Doc prescribes for Hormone Replacement Therapy sus, enanthate, cypionate... doesnt matter... i doubt a hrt patient would use 250mg/weekly... more like monthly..i used 250mg of sus for 8 weeks for my first cycle and gained 8kg while losing bodyfat. one of my family members has just done the same but for 10 weeks and gone from 90kg to 100 with same bodyfat.250mg/week of sus will raise ur test levels way above normal. even 100mg of test a week will give u higher than natural levels.Thats some good sus you got there :nod: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimass Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 Great thread - good discussion. :nod: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsammce Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 250mg of Sust will not cut the mustard. It barely kicks the HPTA out due to the mixed esters in the compound. Its basically what your Doc prescribes for Hormone Replacement Therapy sus, enanthate, cypionate... doesnt matter... i doubt a hrt patient would use 250mg/weekly... more like monthly..i used 250mg of sus for 8 weeks for my first cycle and gained 8kg while losing bodyfat. one of my family members has just done the same but for 10 weeks and gone from 90kg to 100 with same bodyfat.250mg/week of sus will raise ur test levels way above normal. even 100mg of test a week will give u higher than natural levels.Thats some good sus you got there :nod:sus250 is sus250.... well apparently so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbig Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 haha yea apparently lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjim83 Posted November 20, 2010 Report Share Posted November 20, 2010 i just think people should start on a lower dosage for first cycle say 250mg/week. if you got your eating and training right then u gonna explode on it, u use 500mg for ur first cycle then u are saying use dbol deca and tren for your 2nd and third. u telling beginners 1000mg of test is a moderate (intermediate) dose of test. so then where do u go when u are 1 year down the track after your two or 3 cycles? not to mention the bill ull be footing.2 years ago i used grams of gear wasted so much money. people get obsessed with taking as much gear as they can afford and stacking this with that. i now using 500mg test with 200mg deca and getting best results iv ever had coz my eating is on point and so is my training. all 1000mg of test plus whatever else u running to compliment it is juts gonna make u feel like shit and give some newbie the sides of his life.as for 20 years of age, well i dont agree with any age within reason. some one might be 18 and have been doing bodybuilding for 3 years and then there is someone whos 20 and been doing it 3 months.. also i know some 18 year olds who are more adult thatn 25 year olds lol so if your gonna say an age at least have a decent reason and say mid to late 20's when natural test is starting to decline.at end of day its just someones opinion, and most of the time its people telling other people to do exactly the opposite to what they did lol250mg of Sust will not cut the mustard. It barely kicks the HPTA out due to the mixed esters in the compound. Its basically what your Doc prescribes for Hormone Replacement Therapy That because you are a Gorilla!! :pfft: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantygirl Posted November 20, 2010 Report Share Posted November 20, 2010 Really interesting read. I have never and will never use gear however, I fully respect other who wish too, I do get pissed off with people (especially females) who preach about their natural physique, how stupid do you think we are!!!! Anyway, its good to read how it all is done, how much would a first time cycle cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbig Posted November 20, 2010 Report Share Posted November 20, 2010 price will vary depending on source and etc but a females cycle would be cheap az lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usual Suspect Posted November 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 As Mrbig said prices vary according to who you know, quality and supply.I have seen 10ml vials for as low as $40 and have even run human grade stuff that cost $60 per ml! (got wicked growth though).Using my recommended first cycle of 500mg sus per week for 12 weeks, frontloaded with 20mg dbol ed for 4 weeks and finish on half a pack of Genox or similar: Generally a first time user won't be buying directly from the source so they will be paying about $300 per 10ml vial of sustanon 250 vet grade (will need 3) $150 for the dbol and $150 for the PCT. Needles and barrels and swaps will be max of $50. So you are looking at $1250 for your 4 month cycle (12 weeks on + 4 weeks PCT). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantygirl Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 wow its fairly pricey, I guess those big boys must spend a small fortune keeping up with it all. So do they have to keep up year in year out taking the gear? what happens to their muscle size if they stop using but keep training? I could imagine it would screw with your mind if you felt you were shrinking. Great informative stuff on this thread, thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbig Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 its fairly pricey if your a dumbass what was quoted above is a ripoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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