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ISOLATION MOVEMENTS FOR CHEST


trainlikeadog

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I don't think you lads are training hard enough if you are able to do so many different exercises for 1 muscle group. Surely you should be so nuked doing your bench barbell press that you might be able to squeeze a couple of sets of an isolation exercise in for variation and to release a little lactic acid.

This ain't PL

It aint rocket science either. Follow the movement patterns of the muscles, eg biceps are a supinator and elbow flexor why do you need to do 4 or 5 variations on the same movement?? IMO do the exercises that give best bang for your buck, squats, deads, presses, rows, vertical pulls, basic curl and pushdown and you have all bases covered. Lift with maximal loads to recruit more muscle fibres. Ive never understood the bodybuilding training methods and why thats become the norm for nearly every person training in the gym.

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I don't think you lads are training hard enough if you are able to do so many different exercises for 1 muscle group. Surely you should be so nuked doing your bench barbell press that you might be able to squeeze a couple of sets of an isolation exercise in for variation and to release a little lactic acid.

This ain't PL

It aint rocket science either. Follow the movement patterns of the muscles, eg biceps are a supinator and elbow flexor why do you need to do 4 or 5 variations on the same movement?? IMO do the exercises that give best bang for your buck, squats, deads, presses, rows, vertical pulls, basic curl and pushdown and you have all bases covered. Lift with maximal loads to recruit more muscle fibres. Ive never understood the bodybuilding training methods and why thats become the norm for nearly every person training in the gym.

Different angles/movements recruit different fibres

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sorry pete TT is right a muscle works like a light switch either all the fibres are activated or none of them it is impossible to work a certain area of a muscle without working the whole thing

like the whole work my peak of the bicep bullshit either you have genetically shorter muscle bellies which will give more of a peak or you have longer ones which look like footballs

I was shocked when I actually studied the human anatomy at how much bs is out there once you learn the functions a muscle performs and what movements they do across the joint you will understand better

Like TT said a bicep does elbow flexion and supination so regardless of how you do a bicep curl the entire bicep is recruited not just the inner head or outer head etc

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sorry pete TT is right a muscle works like a light switch either all the fibres are activated or none of them it is impossible to work a certain area of a muscle without working the whole thing

like the whole work my peak of the bicep bullshit either you have genetically shorter muscle bellies which will give more of a peak or you have longer ones which look like footballs

I was shocked when I actually studied the human anatomy at how much bs is out there once you learn the functions a muscle performs and what movements they do across the joint you will understand better

Like TT said a bicep does elbow flexion and supination so regardless of how you do a bicep curl the entire bicep is recruited not just the inner head or outer head etc

Does the same apply to triceps?

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sorry pete TT is right a muscle works like a light switch either all the fibres are activated or none of them it is impossible to work a certain area of a muscle without working the whole thing

Wrong! Different exercises activate more fibres in a certain area than others e.g incline BB press vs flat BB press

Yes the whole muscle is engaged (all the heads), just not all the fibres

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sorry pete TT is right a muscle works like a light switch either all the fibres are activated or none of them it is impossible to work a certain area of a muscle without working the whole thing

like the whole work my peak of the bicep bullshit either you have genetically shorter muscle bellies which will give more of a peak or you have longer ones which look like footballs

I was shocked when I actually studied the human anatomy at how much bs is out there once you learn the functions a muscle performs and what movements they do across the joint you will understand better

Like TT said a bicep does elbow flexion and supination so regardless of how you do a bicep curl the entire bicep is recruited not just the inner head or outer head etc

Does the same apply to triceps?

anatomically yup it is an elbow extender think of a tricep kickback

because all the heads insert at the same point the entire muscle must be activated including all the fibres during an exercise where the elbow extends ie pushdowns, dips etc

Yes there have been studies done on working different angles of muscles with electrodes to see if there is a difference and there was a minor percentage increase but not significant to really make a difference

Just lift heavy 1-2 compound lifts followed by an iso for a good pump

then Rest Eat and Grow

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I like where this is going. Incline presses and the such are said to work the clavicular fibres and declines to work the sternal fibres, preacher curls to hit the low biceps etc etc, If you lift heavy enough, enough times you will recruit more motor units and youll tax all the fibres. Id like to read some studies about why getting a pump is good for growth. I personally think its horse shit look at the lighter weight classes of oly lifters, ripped to shreds and muscled up big time, dont think they do any work to pump up.

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http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_hypertrophy_specialist

quote from the article:

BC: Many strength coaches hate on "pumping" training, saying that there is no evidence that trying to achieve a pump leads to increases in hypertrophy. Are these coaches correct?

BS: Before answering the question, it's important to look at the etiology of the muscle "pump." Basically, the pump is caused by a buildup of fluid within the cell, facilitated by the accumulation of metabolic byproducts, which function as osmolytes.

[Editor's note: Osmolytes are organic compounds that maintain cell volume and fluid balance.]

Studies show that intracellular hydration (i.e., cell swelling) can mediate hypertrophy both by increasing protein synthesis and decreasing proteolysis. Thus, there is a physiologic basis by which the pump may augment hypertrophy and it would be imprudent to dismiss this potential role.

BC: Does this mean that we should solely seek "da pump" during our workouts or should we also be thinking about setting PR's and progressive overload?

BS: I certainly wouldn't say that we should "solely" seek a pump during training. Any training protocol, including those targeting hypertrophy, must have progressive overload to bring about adaptation. It's a central tenet of exercise and is by all accounts, immutable.

That said, the cell swelling effect of a muscle pump would seem to provide an additive effect to the hypertrophic response and this role should not be dismissed.

so it may help with "non functional" hypertrophy, which for bodybuilders is all good, not so much for powerlifters or oly lifters wanting to stay in a particular weight class.

As far as oly lifters go, im guessing its due to the explosive nature of their training with maximal or near-maximal weights that probably recruit more fast twitch fibres, which have the most potential for growth.

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I personally have trained many different ways and have had my best results doing a HIT style of training moving more weight with an overall better condition I love to do a pump set or 2 at the end of the workout mainly because it feels good and gets heaps of blood to the muscles

is that pump set going to make me bigger probably not but I enjoy doing it so I do it

I like TT think all this angle stuff is bullshit no matter which angle you perform the exercises the movements across the joints are exactly the same

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heh ill take the t nation article with a grain of salt. two types of hypertrophy, sarcoplasmic=build up of the fluids in the muscle cells, gives the pumped look, myofibrillar=growth of the actual muscle fibres, gives that thick dense look. If type II fibres have the most capacity for growth, wouldnt it make sense to train them specifically. In the time ive been lifting (not very long I should add) Ive had a sole purpose on getting stronger in some form, and feel its helped me develop shit loads of muscle. When I started pl'ing I was 70kg at 10% start of 2009 couple of months ago I was 115kg and 20% bf not a bad gain over 20months or so. Be good to see what its like when Ive dieted down.

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anatomically yup it is an elbow extender think of a tricep kickback

because all the heads insert at the same point the entire muscle must be activated including all the fibres during an exercise where the elbow extends ie pushdowns, dips etc

Yes there have been studies done on working different angles of muscles with electrodes to see if there is a difference and there was a minor percentage increase but not significant to really make a difference

Just lift heavy 1-2 compound lifts followed by an iso for a good pump

then Rest Eat and Grow

Yes but it's their origins that cause the difference in this case, the long head crosses to the scapula meaning it is more stretched than the medial and lateral heads in an over head position which means it contracts more forcefully in this position (force - length relationship)

Same thing occurs with the long head of the bicep on an exercise like the incline DB curl

In regards the the pump, I've read of (haven't really read a whole study) it increasing satellite cells or something. Personally I've found with proper nutrition, hydration, technique and intensity that a pump comes easily while lifting heavy

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I agree with you in the stretching part but I dont think its that much of a difference because im still performing the same movements across the joints

and the muscle engages from the insertion not the origin

I just do which ever exercise I can lift the most weight on causing more motor unit recruitment and placing the entire muscle under maximal stress

and the only thing Im lagging is overall size which will come in time im not fussed about the shape because I know it wont change even tho I wish it could lol

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I agree with you in the stretching part but I dont think its that much of a difference because im still performing the same movements across the joints

and the muscle engages from the insertion not the origin

I just do which ever exercise I can lift the most weight on causing more motor unit recruitment and placing the entire muscle under maximal stress

and the only thing Im lagging is overall size which will come in time im not fussed about the shape because I know it wont change even tho I wish it could lol

Yes, the muscle shape wont change except with added mas but muscle group shape can change (think quad sweep) and to achieve this you need to be analytical

I know the muscle engages at the origin but it still doesn't change the fact that the more a muscle is stretched, the harder it works, other wise 1/4 squats would be forgiven because of the extra weight you can use.

Now some people have great genetics and just doing basic exercises will allow a muscle to grow evenly but for 90% of people, that isn't the case. Many PLers turned BBers have so many holes in their physiques that the normal person wouldn't pick up on until you see them below 6%BF standing next to a dedicated BBer in just their spandax. The PLer will still have mass, don't get me wrong

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In relation to chest movements on this topic, some of us are training for various things. Im happy pumping out 5 sets of 110kg 8-10 rep range then carrying on with my other chest execises. 3 x a week I have to blend in my weight training with Muay Thai 1 on 1 sessions with my trainer, plus doing yoga/balance classes 2 x a week, a lot of people on here are more focused on bigger size, well..im all about symmetry, fitness and strength, size happens over time and frankly I dont give a shit about size anymore, I weigh 88kgs and guys balk when they ask how much I weigh? My body gives that illusion that I look 96-100kg and during sparring/clinching/wrestling im enjoying throwing heavier guys than me to the ground, must be doing something right when people approach me to set up a day to train chest with me, people are fascinated with the way I train at the gym (forgot to mention that I superset chest/back training) So each to their own.

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