The direction of NABBA in NZ

[Andrew]

well all i got to say about the situation of bodybuilding in NZ is that its FCKED .It has been run down by people with there own agenders for a long time and will take a bit of getting back on the right track .Both NABBA and IFBB have got issues here in this country and its a shame . We used to have great shows here , and i can even remember people been told they couldnt compete because there builds were not of a high enough standard , sheesh now we got shape , athletic , i think they are even going to have a saggy arse devision . People can turn pro here and not even win a national title , what the fcks with that . Sadly it is just one big joke .Hope our aussie mates dont laugh to hard at us . :grin:

And whats your problem with Athletic class?

[Ann]

And whats your problem with Athletic class?

I believe this may have been a poke at NZ BB in general Andrew. So, can you answer the question that I have put to you.

Why is it that no-one has been told of Jim Pitts retirement and that Peter Hardwick will be taking over the presidency - with not so much as even a meeting to discuss it?

Afterall - are you not a representative in the Hawkes Bay Area? Or did Nabba NZ feel as though you are not important enough to discuss this issue with you?

[hawks]

well all i got to say about the situation of bodybuilding in NZ is that its FCKED .It has been run down by people with there own agenders for a long time and will take a bit of getting back on the right track .Both NABBA and IFBB have got issues here in this country and its a shame . We used to have great shows here , and i can even remember people been told they couldnt compete because there builds were not of a high enough standard , sheesh now we got shape , athletic , i think they are even going to have a saggy arse devision . People can turn pro here and not even win a national title , what the fcks with that . Sadly it is just one big joke .Hope our aussie mates dont laugh to hard at us . :grin:

And whats your problem with Athletic class?

You missed the point , the post was not about athletic class but rather a genralisation about bodybuilding in NZ and the state it is in . Unfortunately write something in this forum and people think it is about them . I thought it would have been quite obvious what i was trying to get at . Perhaps i should have written down all the classes there are then everyone could have got offended , To hell with it here we go Nabba PHYSIQUE novice men short novice men tall , open men short and tall , novice women short and tall, open women and tall

FIGURE novice women short and tall , open short and tall , Masters Physique for both men and women , masters athletic , SHAPE , fitness , prob missed somit there lol , Then if you want you can go compete in IFBB there we have the same but in weight classes under 70 , 80 ,90, 90 and over , something called bikini class (wow that must be a wicked class)classic class , cant be bothered going on any more prob missed a few .Now ask yourself this question if you were a person that had never been to a bodybuilding show but saw one advertised and decided to go what would you expect to see , take a second ............ok would it be BODYBUILDERS and people with muscle , i think it would be .Trouble is the shows these days people use it as a 12 week weight loss goal , or its there journey that they have decided to do , not everyone is built to be a bodybuilder . We have ended up with people on stage that have no buisness been there .

[agent86]

Hawks wrote:

FIGURE novice women short and tall , open short and tall , Masters Physique for both men and women , masters athletic , SHAPE , fitness , prob missed somit there lol , Then if you want you can go compete in IFBB there we have the same but in weight classes under 70 , 80 ,90, 90 and over , something called bikini class (wow that must be a wicked class)classic class , cant be bothered going on any more prob missed a few .Now ask yourself this question if you were a person that had never been to a bodybuilding show but saw one advertised and decided to go what would you expect to see , take a second ............ok would it be BODYBUILDERS and people with muscle , i think it would be .Trouble is the shows these days people use it as a 12 week weight loss goal , or its there journey that they have decided to do , not everyone is built to be a bodybuilder . We have ended up with people on stage that have no buisness been there .

In any sport there are different levels of ability and not just the elite. In Ceroc dancing we have: Beginners, Intermediate, advanced B, Advanced B,

Advanved Open, Masters,couples,triples,teams,showcase,Dance with a stranger etc. Sure people like to see the best which is usually on display but it is also interesting to see the competition in lesser categories. If the shows were overloaded I might agree with you but many struggle to get 50 competitors.

The point about selections for International events in both federations is another real issue which needs to be addressed separately. The saga with Nabba is something which needs to be addressed. I agree with Ann that Nabba members are not being informed of events and communication from the executive is terrible.

Communication to our members is something that Nabba needs to address even if it is something like having a regional meeting with the area reps to discuss members problems and ideas.

This backroom dealing is not doing Nabba's reputation any good. Things need to be a lot more democratic including election of ececutive members.

[stephie]

I have to both agree and disagree with you 'hawks'. I agree that NABBA is in disarray at the moment and this is not doing any favours for the sport and it's athletes. I competed in a NABBA show last year and it wasn't the best as far as organisation etc goes. Hopefully this will get sorted soon so we can all get on with training and competing.

However I disagree with your statements about classes, ages etc. I am a figure competitor and I work damn hard to look my best on stage. I have no aim to become a physique competitor but if I wanted to I am sure with the right amount of training and diet etc I could. I don't believe that everyone is cut out to do what we do but I don't think that comments like yours are going to do any favours for the sport in general. I enjoy all aspects of the shows and I love seeing all the different body types, ages etc competing and enjoying themselves. What's wrong with people wanting to set goals, achieve them and then show off what they've done. At the end of the day we all look after and appreciate our bodies whether we are a figure, physique, athletic, shape or fitness competitiors. I have read many posts on this site about how a lot of shows have poor athlete turnouts-yes this may be due to poor promotion and organisation by federations but is also due to the fact that people don't want to compete because they are afraid that they won't fit the 'image' that you are obviously looking for. Sorry but I think any show would be boring if we just had BB/physique competitors-wold hate to see the athlete turn out then!

[agent86]

Have to agree with Stephe about classes. Doesn't matter whether it is physique or Athletic or whatever there are going to be good and bad. I have seen some amazing physiques in Athletic and figure and I have seen some shockers in Physique. I have seen physique competitors turn up in undies with no tan looking as if they haven't been to the gym at all. We don't have pre selection so this is bound to happen

I have total respect for any competitor in any division who puts in the effort.

Let's not generalise and say bodybuilding in New Zealand is all shit because it isn't. There are good shows and bad shows in both federations.

The current problem with Nabba is only affecting a select few who choose to International competitions. The selection debate with Nzfbb affects only a few Elite competitors.

[hawks]

I have to both agree and disagree with you 'hawks'. I agree that NABBA is in disarray at the moment and this is not doing any favours for the sport and it's athletes. I competed in a NABBA show last year and it wasn't the best as far as organisation etc goes. Hopefully this will get sorted soon so we can all get on with training and competing.

However I disagree with your statements about classes, ages etc. I am a figure competitor and I work damn hard to look my best on stage. I have no aim to become a physique competitor but if I wanted to I am sure with the right amount of training and diet etc I could. I don't believe that everyone is cut out to do what we do but I don't think that comments like yours are going to do any favours for the sport in general. I enjoy all aspects of the shows and I love seeing all the different body types, ages etc competing and enjoying themselves. What's wrong with people wanting to set goals, achieve them and then show off what they've done. At the end of the day we all look after and appreciate our bodies whether we are a figure, physique, athletic, shape or fitness competitiors. I have read many posts on this site about how a lot of shows have poor athlete turnouts-yes this may be due to poor promotion and organisation by federations but is also due to the fact that people don't want to compete because they are afraid that they won't fit the 'image' that you are obviously looking for. Sorry but I think any show would be boring if we just had BB/physique competitors-wold hate to see the athlete turn out then!

My main concern is that the quality of physiques , i think figure is great , masters is good , haha i am one myself these days , but people need to be in shape , how many shows do you go to and there are competitors that dont even look like they have trained let alone dieted , i personally trained for 5 years before i thought i was ready to step on stage . What happens is people go to a show and see some one in a class like shape and say to themselfs i could do that , they have no muscle and have only been training for 5 minutes , all this does is cheapens the sport and turns it into something other than a bodybuilding show , I can remember when there was just physique and figure classes and i can tell you there was no shortage of competitors or people in the audaince , they even used to tell some they were not of a high enough standard and to try again next year , now they encourage people that should not be on stage and all they do is make fools of themselfs and makes bodybuilding look stupid . Hell i can even remember a dude winning a show with a prostetic leg , sheesh . Good on him for competing , and he actually looked ok but one leg come on .I guess i like to watch a show thats got good physiques in it is that so wrong.After all it is a BODYBUILDING COMP poor ol REG PARK would turn in his grave if he could see it .RIP.

[hawks]

Have to agree with Stephe about classes. Doesn't matter whether it is physique or Athletic or whatever there are going to be good and bad. I have seen some amazing physiques in Athletic and figure and I have seen some shockers in Physique. I have seen physique competitors turn up in undies with no tan looking as if they haven't been to the gym at all. We don't have pre selection so this is bound to happen

I have total respect for any competitor in any division who puts in the effort.

Let's not generalise and say bodybuilding in New Zealand is all shit because it isn't. There are good shows and bad shows in both federations.

The current problem with Nabba is only affecting a select few who choose to International competitions. The selection debate with Nzfbb affects only a few Elite competitors.

HAHAHA we must have gone to the same show

lmoa the undies i remember that, and thats my point no way should he have he been allowed on stage , fckn funny though. But at the end of the day the officials allowed that, personally in nabba i think they should do away with height classes , get rid of athletic and have weight classes so the smaller athlete could compete in physique against others the same size , shape should go , and keep to the basics.Any one that is not of a high enough standard should not be allowed to enter a national comp .

[Sinan]

I can remember when there was just physique and figure classes and i can tell you there was no shortage of competitors or people in the audaince... I guess i like to watch a show thats got good physiques in it is that so wrong.After all it is a BODYBUILDING COMP

For what it's worth, I totally agree. It's a bit like education and all the political correctness that surrounds a lot of competitions these days, everything is dumbed down so that anyone can have a go. Everyone's a winner, baby.

Fair enough I suppose, but if I go to a bodybuilding show, I want to see bodybuilders and muscles, not a beauty pageant or evening dresses. No disrespect to these people, it's not their fault.

Has bodybuilding become so unpopular that these shows have to be padded with this fluff? If yes, is it because of (not only the politics) but the fluff? Do people look at what bodybuilding is now and think I won't bother competing because it's a joke? Catch 22.

[agent86]

I think that the question of classes is a good subject but it is a little off the subject of the thread which is Nabba Calendar. Maybe a new topic could be opened up. I know it has been touched on in other the NZFBB bikini class thread.

I am really interested in what is going to happen with reference to the Nabba Calendar. Will it happen as posted on the Nabba website or will the International shows be canned?

There is also a clash with NZFBB with dates for the Nationals on 2nd October and the Wellington show on 11th September hence the lateness of NZFBB calender.

[hawks]

I can remember when there was just physique and figure classes and i can tell you there was no shortage of competitors or people in the audaince... I guess i like to watch a show thats got good physiques in it is that so wrong.After all it is a BODYBUILDING COMP

For what it's worth, I totally agree. It's a bit like education and all the political correctness that surrounds a lot of competitions these days, everything is dumbed down so that anyone can have a go. Everyone's a winner, baby.

Fair enough I suppose, but if I go to a bodybuilding show, I want to see bodybuilders and muscles, not a beauty pageant or evening dresses. No disrespect to these people, it's not their fault. Awesome mate , glad to see i am not the only one that looks at it this way PHEW was getting a bit concerned , lol :clap:

Has bodybuilding become so unpopular that these shows have to be padded with this fluff? If yes, is it because of (not only the politics) but the fluff? Do people look at what bodybuilding is now and think I won't bother competing because it's a joke? Catch 22.

[hawks]

I think that the question of classes is a good subject but it is a little off the subject of the thread which is Nabba Calendar. Maybe a new topic could be opened up. I know it has been touched on in other the NZFBB bikini class thread.

I am really interested in what is going to happen with reference to the Nabba Calendar. Will it happen as posted on the Nabba website or will the International shows be canned?

There is also a clash with NZFBB with dates for the Nationals on 2nd October and the Wellington show on 11th September hence the lateness of NZFBB calender.

To be honest i dont think alot will happen , i do not think there will be a democratic vote for a new president , I am going to try and make it to the meeting on the 30 th of this month , if nothing changes i think the calander will stay the same but the shows NZ NABBA is showing as qualifiers for the worlds and universe wont be qualifiers , i think as many people as possible need to make this meeting and bring about a change in NZ NABBA so it can move forward and be aligned with the real Nabba . The crap that the old nabba has been doing needs to come to an end.

[agent86]

Hawks wrote:

To be honest i dont think alot will happen , i do not think there will be a democratic vote for a new president , I am going to try and make it to the meeting on the 30 th of this month , if nothing changes i think the calander will stay the same but the shows NZ NABBA is showing as qualifiers for the worlds and universe wont be qualifiers , i think as many people as possible need to make this meeting and bring about a change in NZ NABBA so it can move forward and be aligned with the real Nabba . The crap that the old nabba has been doing needs to come to an end.

I am trying to find out who is allowed to attend the Congress meeting as someone else has asked this question. Is anyone out there keen on being

leader of Nabba? Any news MuscleNZ? I think things should be put to members before the Congress not be kept quiet and arranged behind closed doors.

[Outlaw53]

Trust me, things are pretty much the same over here in Australia, its just that we have been putting up with it for a lot longer now, so we're kinda used to it.

There is no voting here in Australia.

Our federation presidents run their respective federations, none of them can be voted out ever, we are stuck with what we've got.

NZ looks like it is simply following Australia, mores the pity.

If you have any aspirations of competing in a World title overseas then you will have to be prepared to grab your ankles and follow each federations directives, otherwise you won't be going anywhere.

Of course if you are happy to just compete at home then you have more power over where and when you compete.

Despite the fact that most of you appear unhappy with Jim and Moe, you can still support other NABBA + NZFBB shows by simply competing in the shows that Jim + Moe are not promoting.

Thats what many Australians are starting to do.

Its taken us Aussies awhile to work it out, but many Aussies are now choosing to compete with promoters, not federations.

In other words they are avoiding the shows that are promoted by those promoters who they don't like, instead they are competing in shows where they believe the promoter is looking after the competitors.

NZ competitors should do the same, vote with your feet.

We have lots of cross-competing here in Australia now, competitors are no longer just supporting one federation only, they are competing in both NABBA + IFBB, much to many of the promoters displeasure, but the fact of the matter is the promoters can't do anything about it.

Of course if you want to compete overseas or get a Pro card then expect to kiss some arse, otherwise compete where you want to.

Promoters these days are only interested in two things - power + money.

The best way to get power is to make sure you can't be voted out.

The best way to get money is to make sure every competitor wins a trophy and a title.

This is why there are so many classes these days.

Lots of first-time and novice competitors bring in lots of bums-on-seats which in turn brings in lots of money.

You Kiwi's had better start getting used to watching trophy-presentations, because all bodybuilding shows will be heading this way in the future.

Bodybuilding as it used to be is pretty much gone, you can forget about watching massive line-ups with quality physiques, trophies for every one is the exciting new future of bodybuilding.

Nice to see that you guys in NZ have finally caught up with the rest of the world. (I just wish you hadn't have).

[Grover]

Well that sums it up

To change tac

"Country Calssic Invitational" by invite only?

[Ann]

Hi Outtie, there are many points that you have made that are relative to what is happening here at the moment.

Lots of first-time and novice competitors bring in lots of bums-on-seats which in turn brings in lots of money.

Very true - and no-doubt this will continue to grow and be very beneficial to the bodybuilding fraternity... which is what this sport does need.

However, when family and friends support these competitors, what it brings with it is a misunderstanding of bodybuilding, a misbelief in what is needed to compete, and a disregard and disrespect for those who have put years and years of hardwork, training, and patience into a sport whose very being is about the creation of the perfect body - The Ultimate Grecian Physique. Nevertheless, this is not what this particular subject is about, but it is part and parcel of what has been happening for many years, and what will continue to happen - in which it then becomes very much a trophy and paper title.

There are many valid points that you have made, every one of them arousing curiousity from various parties that are involved.

What can be done - who knows. All we can do here, is as you said, " Vote with your feet!" It may sit favourably with those who are requiring change, which is necessary for all who are not afraid to express their opinions openly and frankly. However, this will not sit well for those who are preoccupied with one's own interests and situation.

I for one, will support those who love the sport, are unselfish, and have the competitors welfare at the forefront. This may sound unattainable or perhaps even a fanciful hope, but one that maybe, just maybe - be possible.

[NZresident1]

Nations rep for NABBA/WFF

Australia / New Zealand / Oceania

Graeme Lancefield

NZ rep for National and Regional shows

Jim Pitt

Seems to be straight forward or is it the ones at the top who need to look at themselves.

As to Worlds and Universe NABBA NZ are showing the same as AUS maybe because shows here run at National level only and then people who qualify register with NABBA World president and go and compete, seems simple enough get on with Body building shut down the politicians.

[Outlaw53]

Hi Outtie, there are many points that you have made that are relative to what is happening here at the moment. [

Very true - and no-doubt this will continue to grow and be very beneficial to the bodybuilding fraternity... which is what this sport does need.

Hi Anne baby.

I always enjoy your posts, plenty of passion and honesty, keep it up.

I used to think that attracting lots of new people to the sport was a good thing too, but now I am not so sure.

These new people are not really supporting bodybuilding.

I would conservatively estimate that around 90% stick around for a year or two, after that they disappear forever.

They just take what they can early on, then when they can't compete with the bigger and more experienced competitors the drop out under the guise of "I'm not prepared to take drugs like all those bigger guys"

Translated this means - It was okay when I won a few easy titles, but once I realised how much dedication was involved and how little reward there was I decided to opt out and use the old "I don't wanna take drugs excuse"

What usually happens to these two-comp champions is that after winning a few comps (which they looked shithouse in but won anyway because no one else showed up) they then become experts in the sport.

After doing two comps you will see them starting to train competitors for comps rather than competing themselves, (as they are already acknowledged champions).

Their knowledge is far beyond anyone else, after all, they have never lost a comp.

You will see them and their team of "champions" rocking up to shows in their shiny new matching tracksuits, really looking the part.

Never mind the fact that this is only the third bodybuilding comp that they have ever been to and that they have no idea who legitimate champions like Mike Debenham and Jo Stewart are, these newbies are experts, just ask them, they will tell you how good they are.

They are very important people too and their time is very valuable.

They will only talk to you if you book in for an appointment and you will need to have very deep pockets if you want to be personally trained by them.

They are full of their own self-importance and are purely using bodybuilding as an opportunity to make an easy dollar.

They contribute nothing to the sport whatsoever.

People like this are running riot over here in Australia.

If you have not noticed them in NZ yet then get ready - its only a matter of time.

I know I sound pretty cynical but this is how things are over here in Australia.

Federations and promoters who are running "Trophy-Presentation" comps are to blame, they are breeding grounds for people who have absolutely no passion for bodybuilding and are simply using bodybuilding for their own personal greed.

Look at all the wonderful things you have to look forward to Anne.

[Outlaw53]

Well that sums it up

To change tac

"Country Classic Invitational" by invite only?

No, I just added the Invitational bit just to make it sound flash. (lol)

The Men's Open class requires that you have won an Open State title to qualify.

Once I know that an Open competitor is interested then I mail/email them an official invitation.

The other five classes require no qualifications.

We have some really good promoters over here in Australia.

I would encourage all of you to consider any show that Mark Ryan (QLD), Mike O'Mara (WA) or Phil Primmer (NT) are running.

You will be well and truly looked after.

Of course the CCI has a sensational promoter too, but I'm too modest to say who he is. :grin:

Seriously, if you guys are looking for shows to do in Australia, keep an eye out for the promoters listed above and you won't be disappointed.

[AllenNZ]

Outlaw53 Quote:

We have some really good promoters over here in Australia.

I would encourage all of you to consider any show that Mark Ryan (QLD), Mike O'Mara (WA) or Phil Primmer (NT) are running.

You will be well and truly looked after.

Of course the CCI has a sensational promoter too, but I'm too modest to say who he is.

Yes I have been to Mark Ryan ( QLD ) Nabba comps and of course the one and only best show CCI thats run be the big Outlaw53

mate we will be back over this year for yours and Mark Ryan and will see you at the pro show in 8 weeks.

[hawks]

Hi Outtie, there are many points that you have made that are relative to what is happening here at the moment. [

Very true - and no-doubt this will continue to grow and be very beneficial to the bodybuilding fraternity... which is what this sport does need.

Hi Anne baby.

I always enjoy your posts, plenty of passion and honesty, keep it up.

I used to think that attracting lots of new people to the sport was a good thing too, but now I am not so sure.

These new people are not really supporting bodybuilding.

I would conservatively estimate that around 90% stick around for a year or two, after that they disappear forever.

They just take what they can early on, then when they can't compete with the bigger and more experienced competitors the drop out under the guise of "I'm not prepared to take drugs like all those bigger guys"

Translated this means - It was okay when I won a few easy titles, but once I realised how much dedication was involved and how little reward there was I decided to opt out and use the old "I don't wanna take drugs excuse"

What usually happens to these two-comp champions is that after winning a few comps (which they looked shithouse in but won anyway because no one else showed up) they then become experts in the sport.

After doing two comps you will see them starting to train competitors for comps rather than competing themselves, (as they are already acknowledged champions).

Their knowledge is far beyond anyone else, after all, they have never lost a comp.

You will see them and their team of "champions" rocking up to shows in their shiny new matching tracksuits, really looking the part.

Never mind the fact that this is only the third bodybuilding comp that they have ever been to and that they have no idea who legitimate champions like Mike Debenham and Jo Stewart are, these newbies are experts, just ask them, they will tell you how good they are.

They are very important people too and their time is very valuable.

They will only talk to you if you book in for an appointment and you will need to have very deep pockets if you want to be personally trained by them.

They are full of their own self-importance and are purely using bodybuilding as an opportunity to make an easy dollar.

They contribute nothing to the sport whatsoever.

People like this are running riot over here in Australia.

If you have not noticed them in NZ yet then get ready - its only a matter of time.

I know I sound pretty cynical but this is how things are over here in Australia.

Federations and promoters who are running "Trophy-Presentation" comps are to blame, they are breeding grounds for people who have absolutely no passion for bodybuilding and are simply using bodybuilding for their own personal greed.

Look at all the wonderful things you have to look forward to Anne.

WELL SAID :clap:

[SportsGuru]

Hey all, I understand and have read up on all the frustrations that you all have with nabba as it currently is in this country! I can assure you there is a lot of positive work going on behind the scenes to ensure that 2010 is a year for a change for the better, lots of people are helping to push forward and we need your help!

At this stage I would open up lines of communication from current members and those considering competing predominantly from the south island as this is the area that I represent but I am quite happy to pass on your writings to the representatives from your area, these are to be presented at the AGM on the 30th of this month

There are a few things I do ask before you put pen to paper,

please only pm me your thoughts if you are literate, know what the word constructive means, and are prepared to put your Real Name, region and contact details.

there are a few main points of contention with the current structure and please keep your writings on topic,

I Promise that as things become more apparent we will let you know more details.

Kingsley Hannah

[agent86]

Wellington Nabba is going to hold a meeting on Sunday 24th for any Nabba people to discuss what our reps will discuss at Congress and hopefully to have some news about Leadership.

Will advise place but probably be at 10:30 am.

This is also a chance to have your say on anything related to Nabba including the running of our Wellington show.

[agent86]

Nabba Wellington Pre Congress meeting for Nabba Members will be held on Sunday 24th January, 10:30 am at Cafillac Cafe, High St , Lower Hutt. Have a coffee, food and chat. Maeve and Neville will take selected remits to Congress the next week.

[NZresident1]

Hmmm seems reps need to be informed that as far as I am aware NABBA NZ is an incorporated society and you the rep are the commitee member, all acts by reps are goverened by incorporated rules of the society, just a heads up here maybe you need to read up on the rules that govern you as a rep. :doh: