Plate loaded incline chest press - your opinions

[iwilson]

Right, looking to add a plate loaded incline chest press to the arsenal at my Club.

Most of my pin loaded equipment is from Hoist, the awesome ROC-it series. We have stacks of free weights, Kettle bells, bench's, even an Olympic platform with Olympic plates. But I would like to add some more plate loaded machines that allow user's to go big without needing a spot.

Even the BBer's in the Club rate this gear and can be caught using it from time to time. The heavy stuff in the Club is a mix of Fitness Works, Hammer strength and one plate loaded seated calf raise from Hoist.

I'm looking at the following:

Hoist

If it's as good as the pin loaded gear we already have, it'll be a crowd favourite.

Technogym

Don't see a lot of it in the country, but massive in Europe and starting to make inroads in some of the top Clubs. No weight storage is a negative, but not a show stopper.

Hammer strength

Pretty popular and would complement what I have already.

I'd like to hear from anyone who's using a plate loaded incline chest press at their Club that's particularly good or is using any of the above.

[Luigi]

hammer strength for the win, keep it simple... dont like these "fancy" swinging machines i wouldnt want to be seen using one they look stupid to be honest.

*edit - depends what sort of gym your running, if its just a commercial one for the casual gym goer then yea i could see the swinging ones being popular

[iwilson]

hammer strength for the win, keep it simple... dont like these "fancy" swinging machines i wouldnt want to be seen using one they look stupid to be honest.

*edit - depends what sort of gym your running, if its just a commercial one for the casual gym goer then yea i could see the swinging ones being popular

Thanks Luigi, it's a commercial gym but in a rural town so we cater to all - db's up to 60kg and growing, with BB's competing nationally. I don't see why a commercial Club can't deliver to all. But I never buy gear based on the sweeteners a sales rep can throw in. I buy the best I feel is out there, regardless of the sales pitch. With regard to the fancy machines aka Hoist, from a business perspective, big tick, they give me a point of difference. Secondly they really work - my long term members who repeatably told me not to bother replacing what I had absolutely love the new stuff. I'm in Pukekohe a rural town, full of farming types who'd be happy if I had a pile of rocks in a corner. So don't poo, poo it until you've tried it - if you're ever up my way drop in for a free workout. In fact I'd extend that offer to anyone on this forum - Counties Fitness, PM me in advance - there is real science behind the design of this gear.

Before I bought the Hoist gear I dragged my head personal trainer to a Club in Akl with it, the guy is an ex-dairy farmer who had the exact same attitude as you. He walked out a changed man. The fitness industry has been stuck in a ruck for decades now with regard to the design of strength equipment - the only thing that really changes is fashion, round frames vs. square and this years colour. The big equipment manufacturers have almost become lazy - who say's there ain't still advances to be made that will deliver better results to users...

Anyway I appreciate your comment - do you use Hammer strength in your Club?

[Danomyte]

Hi iwilson,

Our gym dosen't stock Hammer Strength machines, but I've used them in the past and have always been a big fan of them.

I like the simplistic make up of them and easy-to-use appeal. Also, from a maintenance point of view, my understanding is that HS machines are easier to maintain than pin loaded machines (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

But in saying that, the Hoist equipment looks very appealling!!! At first glance, I would say that the 'swinging' while performing the movements would decrease activation of the targeted muscles (again that is at first glance). However, I'd have to try them first hand as to how'd they feel and then form my opinion from there.

Either way, it's always a good thing when you're looking at getting new equipment for your members. Happy Shopping!!!!

[fudoc5]

iwilson,i usually train at counties fitness over the summer period. I recon hammer stregth is a good add on to the gym.its good somtimes to have other options to incline bb bench. BTW: i flew back to puke few weeks back for hols,had a few training sessions there,really like the improvements and upgrades you've made,especially the rubber mats and the weight lifting area. great job,looking forward to training back there this summer. :clap:

[Gym rat]

The only time that I would use hammer strengh machines would be when I travel for example when before I flew back to Dunedin I did a chest train for Chest using all hammer strengh at Les Mills Aucks and overall I enjoy using hammer strengh when I travel.

[musclenz]

My gym has the Hammer Strength Incline Bench Press Machine. Its a good solid piece of equipment that gets a reasonable amount of use by all including the Bigger BBers in the gym. You can load them up heavy. Now, I have never seen the Hoist Range of gear but looking at that "swinging" machine makes me wonder whether in fact it might fit more ergo dynamically with the body & Upper Chest. The disadvantage of the HS is its inabilty to move the seat back angle to "fit" each person. Am I correct in thinking the Hoist Machine may do that better???

[iwilson]

It's a good question - taken from their website.

* Contoured press arm handles provide multiple grip positions

* Starts with the exercise handles positioned at chest level, then rocks rearward to align the handles with the chin mimicking the natural angular or arched movement of a incline bench press

* Designed to reduce the stresses placed upon the anterior shoulder capsule associated with horizontal extension and internal rotation of the arm

* Synchronized converging exercise motion replicates dumbbell presses

The over riding comments regarding the pin loaded Hoist gear we already have is how smooth it is. I put this down to the superior bio-mechanics of the design. From what I understand they have looked at the movement of joints in the context of what is the natural range and direction of motion for a particular joint. This natural range of motion is what a joint has evolved over time to best cope with i.e. the type of joint (ball & socket, hinged or cartilaginous), the placement of ligaments etc. If we use equipment that locks part of our body in a fixed position we can force a joint to move in an unnatural arc, exposing it to stress and the potential for injury. There are many examples of sports where unnatural human motion causes frequent injury - Cricket bowlers and tennis players for e.g.

Anyway a bit of topic but kind of relevant.

One disadvantage of the Hoist is its not isolateral as the arm that moves the seat is tied into both sides. Personally the Technogym press is doing it for me at the moment. Seems a lot simpler compared to the HS. And I know one guy at the Club who's used one the UK and swears by it.

Hey Fudoc5, thanks for the comments, glad to hear we're moving in the right direction. You must have got a bit of a shock when you walked in. Nothing much planned for the ground floor leading into Christmas, a few more kettle bells and maybe taking the DB's upto 70kg although there's only two or three members who can cope with the 60's so it's real hard to justify spending 2 or 3k to incrementally step up to 70's.

[HumanPerformance]

Personally I would go for the Hammer Strength as well. Although I do like alot of hoists machines as well. The club physical in birkenhead where I train some of my clients has a whole Hoist circuit, and yes it is very popular.

I think Hoist machines are exellent and are truly revolutionary in thier concept and design. But the only thing that lets them down is there inconsistentcy. For example the Hoist seated bicep curl is amazing! You can really feel the movement deep in the muscle and the the tension remains on the muscle right throughout the movement, it is undoubtedly the best biceps machine I have ever used ( and I have seen a lot of them being a PT for 15 years). But the chest press machine is absolute rubbish, the range of motion is completely inadequate. The tension comes on halfway through the movement only, and the whole biomechanics make you think " have they even tried this bloody thing'. Thier leg extension again is terrible, but thier lat pulldown machines are very good. I dont know how this has happened, and I find it very strange. My advice would be if you are going to buy the Hoist incline press try it out first. Take you PT along to try it out as well, and ask him what he thinks.

[iwilson]

Thanks for the comments, I actually like the leg extension really get a good burn in the quads. Not sure exactly what you mean regarding the range of motion on the chest press, seems fine to me - but I'm not an expert. But you've got me interested now so I'm going to rig up a strain gauge tomorrow to measure the force curve from start to finish. Might even video it and throw it up on youtube. I think the ab machine is the weakest of the series, since it tempts users to use their arms to perform the exercise (the ideal is to pre-stretch the abs). It does make up for this in being great for the obliques (the seat can be swiveled left or right).

Pin-loaded machines are primary aimed at new users and must adhere by two important rules.

1. Be safe i.e the user should not be able to operate the machine in such a way as to cause injury.

2. Be functionally competent i.e. attempt to ensure the user can only perform the exercise in a manner that targets the correct muscles.

Still really like the Technogym gear, Les Mills refurbished Club in Christchurch will be all Technogym. The brand has had a pretty hard time in the NZ market place in the past due to uncompetitive pricing but the current NZ distributor is pretty aggressive and we'll be seeing more of it in commercial Clubs. Doesn't seem like many on this board have had much experience with it.

[musclenz]

Still really like the Technogym gear, Les Mills refurbished Club in Christchurch will be all Technogym. The brand has had a pretty hard time in the NZ market place in the past due to uncompetitive pricing but the current NZ distributor is pretty aggressive and we'll be seeing more of it in commercial Clubs. Doesn't seem like many on this board have had much experience with it.

Had heard they were using Technogym & its regarded as top range gear. Technogym supplied the equipment for the Beijing Olympics so must be reasonably high spec.

[iwilson]

Had heard they were using Technogym & its regarded as top range gear. Technogym supplied the equipment for the Beijing Olympics so must be reasonably high spec.

Wouldn't get to excited about Beijing, money talks! But while I lived in Europe Technogym was absolutely everywhere. Life Fitness and Technogym pretty much own Europe. Startrac and Precor are more common in the States. Problem with Life these days is they were gobbled up by a company called Bunswick, who have bought up loads of top brands. Navman was one of them which they pretty much wrecked. They also own Mercury (marine outboard motors), loads of boat companies, 10 pin bowling equip, Billards equip and Life Fitness/Hammer strength. When a company loses focus on it's core brands, products suffer. I have the highest regard for Life Fitness NZ, great team, excellent support but they can only work with the product they're given. I just hope Bunswick continues to support the brand and gives them the resources they need to continue to build on the great base they've developed.

[Pseudonym]

The Hoist seated bicep curl is amazing!

But the chest press machine is absolute rubbish

Thier leg extension again is terrible

but thier lat pulldown machines are very good.

...

My advice would be if you are going to buy the Hoist incline press try it out first.

:nod: Couldn't agree more. Club Physical Te Atatu splashed out recently and bought about 15 Hoist machines for their circuit room. A few of them are great, but a lot absolutely suck.

As with HP, I like the bicep curl machine - it works well for front delts, too (unfortunately the cable is too short for me to do side raises properly though). Their dip machine is also very nice.

But the chest press is very weird. And the ab crunch machine is downright dangerous - go too far forward, and it folds you in half and squeezes you like a sandwich press! :shock:

[Daniil]

I have only this to say: we have that one machine in our gym called "Composite Leg Press", it moves you as you press, similar to the first machine pictured. And it's "Out of Order" so often! Moral of the story: more complex = more prone to break.

[Luigi]

yea iv tryd technogym stuff, not plate loaded though the ones i tryd were pin-loaded ..... nothing to rave about ... it was good but didnt feel any difference between that and any other machines i have tryd, plus i dont like the name

[iwilson]

Very odd the comments about the Chest press. I've spoken to my trainers, members etc and no one has said there is anything unusual about it.

So I did a little experiment today and rigged up a load cell to measure the force curve. I picked up a cheap set of mechanical scales from the warehouse. Then placed a piece of 4 by 2 across the handles, placed the scales on the wood and my hands on the scales. By observing the change in reading of the scales as I performed the exercise I could get a good idea of what was going on.

Firstly we need to remember some variation is normal and in fact most strength equipment by design have a varying force profile. Mostly through the use of cams.

As you can see the cam on this leg curl machine is elliptical in shape with a very off-centre connecting shaft. This will result in steeply changing force curve that is designed to work with the fact that during the leg curl the ability of the muscles involved varies a lot due to the changing leverage as the leg moves through its range of motion.

So I'm expecting to see some change - but not what is described below.

...the range of motion is completely inadequate. The tension comes on halfway through the movement only

So I shot a small video today. Firstly demonstrating the range of motion and secondly using my bit of wood and scales to see if there is a significant change in tension. So here it is....

I know it's hard to read the actual numbers on the scales but the numbers don't really matter it's the rate of change. For your information the scales registered a peak load of around 44kg and a low of around 38kg. The low point was at the start and the increase was steady, there was no huge increase in tension at any point. I have to wonder if there was a problem with that particular machine?

[HumanPerformance]

Perhaps your right iwilson, maybe the particular machine I have tried is faulty somehow. Although if pseudonym says the the in Te Atatu "feels strange" I might try that one when I am over there next and see if its any better than the one ive tried.

[iwilson]

The problem sounds like slack cables. Most pin-loaded equipment is cable operated, after initial installation the cables will stretch over a period of time and will need re-tightening. If not done then the symptoms you've described will occur i.e. no initial load and a sudden increase in tension as the slack is taken up. A lot of Clubs don't have anyone performing regular maintenance and will only call someone in if something actually breaks.

[iwilson]

I'm now not surprised by the lack of experience with the Technogym gear. According to the distributor, the only examples of this line are being installed in Les Mills Christchurch this week! Pretty exciting to think I may be the second. The full line consists of 10 pieces. Until the extension to the Club is finished I have room for maybe two pieces. Incline chest press is one, not sure of the other. Already have a decent plate loaded leg press, plus a pin-loaded Hoist version.

Full line up follows...

Chest Press

Incline Chest Press

Wide Chest Press (decline)

Row

Low Row

Pull down

Shoulder Press

Rear Kick

Calf

Leg Press

[Pseudonym]

You know, I actually don't care how it moves. There's just something so cool about a shiny new piece of exercise equipment. Hardware porn. :grin:

[iwilson]

You know, I actually don't care how it moves. There's just something so cool about a shiny new piece of exercise equipment. Hardware porn. :grin:

So it's not just me then

Just got word that Hoist are bringing out a line of plate loaded gear that is iso-lateral the same as Technogym and Hammer strength. Rep coming out on Thursday - watch this space...

[Danomyte]

You know, I actually don't care how it moves. There's just something so cool about a shiny new piece of exercise equipment. Hardware porn. :grin:

So it's not just me then

Just got word that Hoist are bringing out a line of plate loaded gear that is iso-lateral the same as Technogym and Hammer strength. Rep coming out on Thursday - watch this space...

AWESOME equipment there iwilson!!!!

I'm with you Pseudonym, NEW GEAR = HARDWARE PORN!!!!!

[iwilson]

Update - order has gone in for 1 x Technogym incline chest press and 1 x Technogym wide chest press (decline).

My thinking as follows, the Hoist Roc-it pin loaded line we already have is extremely popular with new members. Advanced user's when given the choice of the Plate loaded Roc-it line and the Technogym plate loaded line have overwhelmingly chosen Technogym. The reason being primarily because it fits with their image of what a plate loaded machine should look like. It's simple and they know it will work. The plate loaded ROC-IT line is an unknown and as advanced user's they tend to have been around gyms for a few years and are suspicious of anything radically different. Imagine some weird dumbbell for e.g. :shock:

From my perspective that's fine and my job is to serve my members. But I have devised a test. Blue Fitness the distributors of Hoist have been kind enough to agree to participate in a little experiment. They're going to install a plate loaded ROC-IT incline chest press along side the Technogym version. I'm going to run a poll and invite my members to vote on which piece they think is better. At the end of the voting period I'll abide by the result and will equip the Club with rest of the line from the winning manufacturer on the condition it's a clear cut victory. If not then I'll make a decision based along business lines i.e. bang for buck. The odds would however seem to be stacked in Technogyms favour, which is good for me since if they lose I'd be out of pocket big time!

So Hoist would seem to be an outside chance at best, but here's the kicker. In an email from Blue Fitness they mentioned some testing that had been done by 24 Hour fitness in the States.

...24Hour Fitness just conducted a test of a wide range of different

manufacturers Plate Loaded Chest Press units that they where interested

in purchasing, and the new HOIST RPL line won out for superior

biomechanics.

hmmm

[HumanPerformance]

Jesus. You have to be the most thorough gym owner I have ever seen!! (and ive been working in them for 20 years). Letting your members test drive equipment then choose what they like the best is awesome. Good on you for taking such an interest in what your members really want. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Danomyte]

Jesus. You have to be the most thorough gym owner I have ever seen!! (and ive been working in them for 20 years). Letting your members test drive equipment then choose what they like the best is awesome. Good on you for taking such an interest in what your members really want. :clap: :clap: :clap:

AGREED!!!!

I think it's a great move towards customer satisfaction and retention. Great job.

Also, maybe making a sub-forum for gym equipment could be a great resource for all on here.

For myself, working in a gym, this information is invaluable.

Cheers iWilson :clap: