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i was speaking to brian on sunday and he said that it is still in process but there are a couple of issues on why it isnt being put threw straight away (ie a main one being that the testing policy has to be agreed via voting of the board, and there are some members on the board that are not in favour of the testing , so at this point he is still unsure when it will come into play ("but i am workin on it", he says)

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Lets call a spade a spade - NZFBB dumped the WADA based testing on its ass. To adopt anything else is a sham (just check the so-called drug testing in some American PLing feds).

NZFBB should either test to what is clearly the gold standard (or as close to this as they can get) or don't waste everyones time with a BS inhouse approach!!

Personally I couldn't give a rat's ass if NZFBB choose to accept "use" or not, it seems pointless however to adopt a substandard approach to testing as everyone know BS when the smell it!

One way or the other guys!

Nate

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Wont a message like: "no testing this year" also send the wrong message?

Something more preferable would be: "We don't condone drug use and it's against the IFBB rules resulting in a ban; there might be testing, there might not be"

No, it needs to be clear and open information to all competitors.

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every nzfbb competitor should know the rules on drugs(first timers inc, as it is all over the net in official websites,forums etc). even if they bring the testing in its still not gona stop users entering, its just gone make them smarter on how to get away with it. :?

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every nzfbb competitor should know the rules on drugs(first timers inc, as it is all over the net in official websites,forums etc). even if they bring the testing in its still not gona stop users entering, its just gone make them smarter on how to get away with it. :?

I disagree to an extent, in that a solid drug testing programme (includes random no notice testing & whereabouts requirements) deters "users" entering. IPF PLing in NZ / Australia is an example of this - sure there are "users" who enter, but they are by far the minority and usually only compete in Novice comps where the likelihood of testing is decreased (although occurs reasonably frequently). Once athletes progress they are subject to tighter controls (i.e. athlete whereabouts etc) - I note that some IOC / WADA sports bodies are requiring top athletes to be available for 1 hour a day in a specified place (aka top NZ Oly lifters).

Of course this system falls apart if the sports governing bodies do not support it, hence all the BS currently being seen with the former Eastern Bloc countries in PLing.

As a result at National / Oceania level PLing is a much more even playing field - very few "geared up" athletes, and those that use are probably limited to short periods of fast acting compounds with little in the way of traceable metabolics (in simple speak - using small amounts of test for short periods in out of competition, running the gauntlet of being testing OCT). The same would probably apply to BBing in NZL, in so much that there is no money in the sport and athletes could hardly afford to have designer drugs made to order aka BALCO. Non drug testing organisations such as CAPO or NABBA then pick up the overflow of "users" or those that simply don't like the concept of drug testing and/or other characteristics of the organisation.

In short, it's not perfect (and never will be) but seems to offer a huge benefit for PLers that want drugfree competition. The same could be said if NZFBB endorsed a full WADA approved code.

A half way approach offers no value to anyone.

Again, I don't really care which way it goes, but suggest the middle ground is a step forward for no one.

Nate

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don't know if this is correct but i got told at the gym that the guys competing in powerlifting can't even use trib products if they are competing.

nate??

Yeah they can use anything not on the WADA list (or specified as related to). The idea that Trib could push one T:E ratios beyond the norm has been floated (and to be fair the ratio has come down over the years from 12:1, 6:1 and now 4:1), but I can't see it happening. Even if it did the secondary testing (isotopes) would show it was endogenous test not exogenously administered test.

In saying that a "take at your own peril" policy exists when it comes to supplements - a study was done showing masses of otc products which contained banned substances, and they wouldn't make this accessible to athletes........ kinda crazy really.

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hey i am interested in finding out what the oficial word on the $cost of testing is??

per test and to have the testers on site at a show?

also if someone has the figures that make the copmparison between the

wada and other drug testing methods,

purely interested!

Unsure - but I'm pretty sure the SPARC funding you receive (if WADA compliant) would cover it.

Some US PLing Feds seem to argue that costs are prohibitive and so some have opted for inhouse (aka BS) programmes. Some use lie detector tests, unaccredited laboratory testing etc.

Pretty clear cut from where I sit, if NZFBB are serious about drug testing get back to being a WADA compliant organisation - all the works been done to be compliant by NZ Powerlifting (btw a far less resourced organisation than NZFBB) just ask for the supporting docments.

Otherwise get on with being a non tested organisation (and blend in with the NABBAs). The only upsides I see for this is we get to see more freaks & those poor bastards trying to get Pro cards don't have to go through the BS they have in the past.

Nate

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hey i am interested in finding out what the oficial word on the $cost of testing is??

per test and to have the testers on site at a show?

also if someone has the figures that make the copmparison between the

wada and other drug testing methods,

purely interested!

Unsure - but I'm pretty sure the SPARC funding you receive (if WADA compliant) would cover it. Some US PLing Feds seem to argue that costs are prohibitive and so some have opted for inhouse (aka BS) programmes. Some use lie detector tests, unaccredited laboratory testing etc.

Pretty clear cut from where I sit, if NZFBB are serious about drug testing get back to being a WADA compliant organisation - all the works been done to be compliant by NZ Powerlifting (btw a far less resourced organisation than NZFBB) just ask for the supporting docments.

Otherwise get on with being a non tested organisation (and blend in with the NABBAs). The only upsides I see for this is we get to see more freaks & those poor bastards trying to get Pro cards don't have to go through the BS they have in the past.

Nate

Don't think NABBA is up for any SPARC funding, Nate. :pfft:

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Unsure - but I'm pretty sure the SPARC funding you receive (if WADA compliant) would cover it.

Some US PLing Feds seem to argue that costs are prohibitive and so some have opted for inhouse (aka BS) programmes. Some use lie detector tests, unaccredited laboratory testing etc.

Nate

And yet when the NZFBB was compliant and having 31 PASSED tests in one year...SPARC didn't front with the money they were meant to...your right Nate- something BS going on and it's not at the NZFBB end.

Its standard business practice, if you adhere to the terms of an agreement and the other party doesn't comply with their side of the bargain- you either go to the market or do it yourself.

Running tests that are proven by their own systems to be DRASTICALLY effected by fat loss (as proven within the Oly lifting community) and dehydration (where there has been a recorded 40% VARIENCE in test levels over 4 days!!)...., a very questionable "gold standard".

Implementing testing for officials and coaches, way to hammer at the volunteerism that our sport stands on- how many of you competitors would be happy to have your performance and result effected by whether your PT or nutritionalist drank too much red bull one day?

Looks like we might be on the right track to ensure that we are in charge of our own ship.

I throw my support behind Brian, Moe, Terry, B2, Kaye, Willie, and Darryl (think I've got them all) to decide what is best for the NZFFB and NZFBB athletes.

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LOL MuscleNZ - that could be the next Tui Ad - "NABBA gets SPARC Funding - Yeah Right!"

Mike K - I was not aware of issue around NZFBB & SPARC re: Funding. Doesn't change my view though - NZFBB should either go WADA (regardless of SPARC funding) or dump the testing on it's ass.

Does IFBB Pro still do the diuretic testing, was a big thing after Momo died, haven't heard much since. Interesting take on a policy, more like a health policy, which is what Worlds Strongest Man have. Haven't heard much about this apart from Mariusz getting disqualified one year (Ecstasy according to the rumour mill, but he didn't appear to be overly happy or pulling out crazy dance moves in between dishing out big sweaty hugs :pfft: ). The policy can also be used to stop participation if athletes are at medical risk.

Let us know how it all pans out?

Nate

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LOL MuscleNZ - that could be the next Tui Ad - "NABBA gets SPARC Funding - Yeah Right!"

Mike K - I was not aware of issue around NZFBB & SPARC re: Funding. Doesn't change my view though - NZFBB should either go WADA (regardless of SPARC funding) or dump the testing on it's ass.

Does IFBB Pro still do the diuretic testing, was a big thing after Momo died, haven't heard much since. Interesting take on a policy, more like a health policy, which is what Worlds Strongest Man have. Haven't heard much about this apart from Mariusz getting disqualified one year (Ecstasy according to the rumour mill, but he didn't appear to be overly happy or pulling out crazy dance moves in between dishing out big sweaty hugs :pfft: ). The policy can also be used to stop participation if athletes are at medical risk.

Let us know how it all pans out?

Nate

Its not too funny, one of the points of the testing was that it gave the NZFBB an in with the Lion Foundation, who subsequently a few years back then went and threw money at the NABBA Nats, seems like the testing was a toothless tiger at getting good corporate $$.

Pro contracts do have clauses about any type of drug testing they want to implement at any time, and on occaision have, I don't believe they have continued with diuretics testing at this time - not that it'd bother me, don't use them myself.

The health issue is a funny one, I was at a seminar not long after Ephidrine was taken off the banned list (at great relief to me and my sinuses- I've had CT scans trying to figure them out) and was told if it appears that athletes are using them frequently again, they reserve the right to put it back on the list despite their statement that it was no longer considered performance enhancing!

Rumour has it Marius put a couple of the tractor tyres on turn tables and started scratching on them, might be something in BZP

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The health issue is a funny one, I was at a seminar not long after Ephidrine was taken off the banned list (at great relief to me and my sinuses- I've had CT scans trying to figure them out) and was told if it appears that athletes are using them frequently again, they reserve the right to put it back on the list despite their statement that it was no longer considered performance enhancing!

I think you mean pseudoephedrine Mike, ephedrine is still banned as it is a fantastic beta agonist, pseudo just clears sinuses and keeps p-fiends gainfully employed :pfft:

The same statement was made about caffiene, right to reclassify if being abused - which was shotly before that interview with the Aussie athlete who was candidly talking about throwing back a few No Dose tabs before competing!! Funny thing caffiene protocols are on Australian Institute of Sport site - surely they dont endorse a useless product, and if not I'm pretty sure it becomes performance enhancing!!! Ban lattes in Ponsonby - cheating bastards!!! :P

Rumour has it Marius put a couple of the tractor tyres on turn tables and started scratching on them, might be something in BZP

LMAO

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don't know if this is correct but i got told at the gym that the guys competing in powerlifting can't even use trib products if they are competing.

nate??

Yeah they can use anything not on the WADA list (or specified as related to). The idea that Trib could push one T:E ratios beyond the norm has been floated (and to be fair the ratio has come down over the years from 12:1, 6:1 and now 4:1), but I can't see it happening. Even if it did the secondary testing (isotopes) would show it was endogenous test not exogenously administered test.

In saying that a "take at your own peril" policy exists when it comes to supplements - a study was done showing masses of otc products which contained banned substances, and they wouldn't make this accessible to athletes........ kinda crazy really.

If you are old like me veryold.gif 57 then you have no problems with Trib rolleyessign.gif. I test my levels every year they have risen by about 25-40% per year I have been on trib all that time. But it could have something to with the training increasing my levels according to the doc. I asked Drug Free Sports about Trib there response because its advertisment stated it increased Testosterone Levels then they would not ok some one to take it.

As Nate stated "take at your own Peril" wtfbanner.gif

hey i am interested in finding out what the oficial word on the $cost of testing is??

per test and to have the testers on site at a show?

also if someone has the figures that make the copmparison between the

wada and other drug testing methods,

purely interested!

It costs about $550 per test busted2.gif

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Wont a message like: "no testing this year" also send the wrong message?

Something more preferable would be: "We don't condone drug use and it's against the IFBB rules resulting in a ban; there might be testing, there might not be"

At the moment everyone knows its not going to be tested. They also know if they compete outside of Canada and NZ in an IFBB sactioned show that they won't either.

I may be over simplifying things when I say; Tested shows will bring in smaller athletes which will in turn bring in smaller $$$. Moe has set the standard and brought opportunity to the sport in NZ again. I haven't been more excited about the sport since BJ was on stage.

http://mefeedia.com/entry/bj-johns-of-nz-1997-ironman-ifbb-pro/14232415/

Keep the drug testing out of the sport. If you cannot fully eliminate it and you know that you never will, what is the real point? It's not like its the olympics or anything > people expect it! - why not invest the money into educating young athletes on the pros and cons of steriod use? By doing this atleast they are potentially reducing the risk for some individuals.

IMO - everyone that has ever competed has thought about it, read about it and made their own descisions about how they choose to train and compete. But they all did this knowing the sport wasn't clean and never will be. It's like migrating to NZ, refusing to speak english and then penalising the existing population for not seeing it your way.

I have competed naturally and been beaten on a number of occasions by guys who have obviously been loaded. It never deterred me ... and I just accepted it - they were better than me on the day. :nod:

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Wont a message like: "no testing this year" also send the wrong message?

Something more preferable would be: "We don't condone drug use and it's against the IFBB rules resulting in a ban; there might be testing, there might not be"

At the moment everyone knows its not going to be tested. They also know if they compete outside of Canada and NZ in an IFBB sactioned show that they won't either.

I may be over simplifying things when I say; Tested shows will bring in smaller athletes which will in turn bring in smaller $$$. Moe has set the standard and brought opportunity to the sport in NZ again. I haven't been more excited about the sport since BJ was on stage.

http://mefeedia.com/entry/bj-johns-of-nz-1997-ironman-ifbb-pro/14232415/

Keep the drug testing out of the sport. If you cannot fully eliminate it and you know that you never will, what is the real point? It's not like its the olympics or anything > people expect it! - why not invest the money into educating young athletes on the pros and cons of steriod use? By doing this atleast they are potentially reducing the risk for some individuals.

IMO - everyone that has ever competed has thought about it, read about it and made their own descisions about how they choose to train and compete. But they all did this knowing the sport wasn't clean and never will be. It's like migrating to NZ, refusing to speak english and then penalising the existing population for not seeing it your way.

I have competed naturally and been beaten on a number of occasions by guys who have obviously been loaded. It never deterred me ... and I just accepted it - they were better than me on the day. :nod:

1.Exactly.

2.Education is the key to safe & sensible use of gear.

Good Post Optimass

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Keep the drug testing out of the sport. If you cannot fully eliminate it and you know that you never will, what is the real point? It's not like its the olympics or anything > people expect it! -

i dnt see why the users just cant stick to the nabba ? its like some of them are worried about being up againt other big guys ,were as they know they got it in the bag if they stick with nzbb?

i thought the nzbb was suppose to give the natural guys a shot(obviously not at the big time, but at least to not get blown off the stage by monsters). :?

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