haydz0r Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Hello!I was wondering what the biggest the "average joe (genetics wise)" can get without steroids assuming they train properly, adequate diet/rest etc. Can people post up pics of people at their peak that they know have no used steroids at all. I know there is a lot of variables, but I'm more interested in seeing what others have accomplished without steroids. Its hard to find pics on the internet, because im sure most of the people who say they are all natural have used or are still using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chchardgainer Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 if everyone just lies then how can you tell who got big naturally and who didnt ? naturally you can only go as big as your genes will let you unless you start packing on the fat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 It really depends on your genes, diet, the way that you train and how long you have been training. My husband has been training for 17 years (cruising for about 5 of those). He is just under 6ft 3in tall, so pretty hard to put the muscle on and without the use of gear it is difficult to get that 'thickness' of the muscle that he wants. He wants to stay natural, and I admire him for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBundy Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Average genetics differ way to much to gauge whats possible. Too many factors are involved to be able to compare someone elses gains to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeepsouth_nz Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yes genetics differ and it may be so that you get a 'super athlete' who comes along with amazing genetics every once in a while BUT I personally think you can see a noticeable difference between what is natural and what is not in alot of cases (well to the extreme most definately). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2guns Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 well how can u know when u have reached yr genetic potential? maybe u have stopped gaining and think u have... though had u have done some things different along the way u would have got better results...?u will never know when u have reached your full genetic potential imobesides there is always room for improvment no matter who u are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-311 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I think with proper mass building diet and the right programmes etc as most of us do, that one can get as big as any steroid user following a similar lifestyle with the exact same genetic make up.The one using steroids may show change earlier.But for someone with right time on there hands and the right supp's can in all probability achieve the same results not long after, if not in the same amount of time.Im sure there's been studies made compering the two.Great Topic!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2guns Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I think with proper mass building diet and the right programmes etc as most of us do, that one can get as big as any steroid user following a similar lifestyle. wrong im sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-311 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I think with proper mass building diet and the right programmes etc as most of us do, that one can get as big as any steroid user following a similar lifestyle. wrong im sorryNo need to be sorry.I'll get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2guns Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 lol well its just my opinion but i cant see how its wrong this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigboy Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I think from medical research, the amount of lean muscle mass the human body can put on is rather limited - let's say its 1-4 lbs per annum at best. So in effect, I would say that people illustrate they have exceptional results after only 2 years, then in reality they have acheived what would have normally taken alteast 10 years, if not more in many cases.That's not to say, you can't train well, gain strength, aerobic and non-aerobic fitness, but the notion of gaining kilos of lean msucle mass as per some advertisements without gear in a limited amount of time is erroneous as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamWelly Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I can only base what I know about growth off my own experiences...I have remained completely natural (with the ONLY suppliments I have taken being Creatine, Kre-Alkaline, Glutamine, and Protein powder) yet have gone from a lean 87kg to a still fairly lean (around 13%bf) 114kg in 2.5-2.7 years - A result only normaly found with a fairly heavy roid user I am told. Genes make a huge difference, but so do strict training regimes and adequate nutrition. Giving up the booze completely a couple of months ago is making a BIG difference!Only when you see someone in an extreme condition do you realise the physical difference of a user vs a non user... I dont think 22inch arms are all that natural, but until I hit my peak I will not know how far I can take it - being just 21 I hope I still have a while to go. So in short terms, train hard, eat well, and see how far you can take it. I would take normal sized balls and clean skin over roids anyday 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigboy Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yes - but your only 21. If you can't make a physique between the ages of 15-20 for the average male, there is a bit of a problem, but huge gains of mature adults in only 2 years - the odds are those gains are not entirely natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamWelly Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBundy Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Average build, bone density/diameter, joint size? Average protein synthesis rates? Average hormone levels?You can't generalize people accurately.Also 22 inch arms at 21 = pics or it didn't happen. Maybe you measured the actual length of your arm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamWelly Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Dude re read my post I was saying 22inch arms are generaly not going to be natural. But I can not be sure until I see for my self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-311 Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 lol well its just my opinion but i cant see how its wrong this timeNO...maybe not this time......but I will get you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2guns Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I would take normal sized balls and clean skin over roids anyday put very nicely, u are a fool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronGame Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I think with proper mass building diet and the right programmes etc as most of us do, that one can get as big as any steroid user following a similar lifestyle. wrong im sorryYeah no chance of that, just have to look at olympia contestants and natural olympia contestants to see there is a massive gap. I have respect for both though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I think with proper mass building diet and the right programmes etc as most of us do, that one can get as big as any steroid user following a similar lifestyle with the exact same genetic make up.The one using steroids may show change earlier.obviously you don't know any guys that use steroids. :pfft: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoan_muscle Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I think with proper mass building diet and the right programmes etc as most of us do, that one can get as big as any steroid user following a similar lifestyle with the exact same genetic make up.The one using steroids may show change earlier.obviously you don't know any guys that use steroids. :pfft:Im a big guy and I dont use stereos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariano404 Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 These guys look pretty big to me, and are naturalhttp://www.musclemania.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poos_n_wees Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Im a big guy and I dont use stereosDamn!! So where can I gets me sum of dat stereos.. These guys look pretty big to me, and are natural http://www.musclemania.com/Cool site.. there's an impressive pic and write up of Sanjeev Narayan on there too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 yeah there are some big natural guys, but then check out the guys in the olympia. it's another level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poos_n_wees Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Ok, I've heard the above quite a bit lately, especially in bodybuilding circles. From what I've read on here, the general consensus is that genetics can only take you so far :shifty: What I want to know is.. how do you know when you've 'reached' your genetic potential? How do you know that you've exhaused all your avenues in terms of diet/training/rest? Is there a definitive way to know that you have done all you can with your genetics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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