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Davo1990

Personal Trainer Courses

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Well said mate - REPs is a crock of S#%T. It's a cash cow basically -- money for nothing. How many physios/dentist/Drs do you know have to re'qualify or attend a minimum number of course every year to keep their qualification valid?

I work in the medical field and I absolutely need to attend courses every year or else I cannot re-register as a medical professional. It's pretty common. Learning does not stop does not stop at uni and I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to go to someone that only learned what they learned at uni 20 years ago!

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I agree Sports Girl that continual eduction is vital, as if your not upskilling, you are falling behind. But I believe how you do it should be largely up to you.

I think what Optimass was referring to was that REPS decide what courses they will accredit and which ones they wont.

I like the idea of a professional standards body, to keep PTs on the same page as other health/fitness professionals, however I think that serving REP's board members should not be able to derive an income from their courses whilst they are on the board as that could be perceived as a conflict of interest(deriving an incoming AND determining which courses provide CEC's).

It's important to remember that many PT's keep their knowledge current by reading and studying literature, not unlike a doctor studying the latest medical journals.

For example I have regularily studied and spent $$$$ on Net fit, Network, Fitness Life, NZ Fitness, etc as well as mainstream BBuilding literature(Flex/Health and Fitness etc) and own a huge collection of literature on Physiology, periodisation, nutrition, Human Kinetics type publications all these mags have articles and research by top industry Trainers, Exercise Physiologists, PHd Grad, and sports scientists. I take nothing as the bible however, I read and make my own mind up based on a mix of what science and myt experience tells me.

Perhaps REPs could provide CEC's on prof off purchase of these materials to suppliment the courses they accredit. Personally I believe, the reading that I have done in my own time as well as at my own expense has given me at least as much, if not more knowledge than the accredited courses that I have attendesd.

The other thing that perhaps need to be addressed by them is anecdotal experience in a chosen field. I can remember vividly a course I attended by Richard Dryden(NZ Weight Lifting Coach) where he stated that he had NO FORMAL HEALTH AND FITNESS EDUCATION, no degree or certificates. Yet he rose to the top job in his chosen field by OBSERVING PEOPLE LIFT and WORKING OUT WAYS TO IMPROVE THE BIOMECHANICS OF THEIR LIFTS.

Thats something they wont teach you out of a book.

Many top and experienced PT's come up with there own, very successful ways of achieving results for their clients that perhaps fly in the face of accepted science. BBuilding is a perfect example: BBuilding and accepted science is often in conflict, however in the last two decades, many tried and true BBuilding training and techniques that were once po howd by the scientific commmunity are now acknowledged as very successful ways of achieving a result in either fat loss and/or muscle gain.

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I agree Sports Girl that continual eduction is vital, as if your not upskilling, you are falling behind. But I believe how you do it should be largely up to you.

I think what Optimass was referring to was that REPS decide what courses they will accredit and which ones they wont.

I like the idea of a professional standards body, to keep PTs on the same page as other health/fitness professionals, however I think that serving REP's board members should not be able to derive an income from their courses whilst they are on the board as that could be perceived as a conflict of interest(deriving an incoming AND determining which courses provide CEC's).

It's important to remember that many PT's keep their knowledge current by reading and studying literature, not unlike a doctor studying the latest medical journals.

For example I have regularily studied and spent $$$$ on Net fit, Network, Fitness Life, NZ Fitness, etc as well as mainstream BBuilding literature(Flex/Health and Fitness etc) and own a huge collection of literature on Physiology, periodisation, nutrition, Human Kinetics type publications all these mags have articles and research by top industry Trainers, Exercise Physiologists, PHd Grad, and sports scientists. I take nothing as the bible however, I read and make my own mind up based on a mix of what science and myt experience tells me.

Perhaps REPs could provide CEC's on prof off purchase of these materials to suppliment the courses they accredit. Personally I believe, the reading that I have done in my own time as well as at my own expense has given me at least as much, if not more knowledge than the accredited courses that I have attendesd.

The other thing that perhaps need to be addressed by them is anecdotal experience in a chosen field. I can remember vividly a course I attended by Richard Dryden(NZ Weight Lifting Coach) where he stated that he had NO FORMAL HEALTH AND FITNESS EDUCATION, no degree or certificates. Yet he rose to the top job in his chosen field by OBSERVING PEOPLE LIFT and WORKING OUT WAYS TO IMPROVE THE BIOMECHANICS OF THEIR LIFTS.

Thats something they wont teach you out of a book.

Many top and experienced PT's come up with there own, very successful ways of achieving results for their clients that perhaps fly in the face of accepted science. BBuilding is a perfect example: BBuilding and accepted science is often in conflict, however in the last two decades, many tried and true BBuilding training and techniques that were once po howd by the scientific commmunity are now acknowledged as very successful ways of achieving a result in either fat loss and/or muscle gain.

Exellent points raised here Matrix! Very good post.

Although the qualifications I achieved were through AUT and I thought they were good courses, 99% of the knowledge I have amassed is through research I have done myself. Both from reading and researching the material then applying to different clients to see how it works in the real world. Most good PTS update thier knowledge constantly by following sites like T Nation (one of the best IMO) there you can follow the latest research being done by guys like Charles Poliquin,Dr Lonn Lowery,Dr john Bowden, and get ideas from leaders in thier fields like Dave Tate and Scott Abel.

The thing is by the time this sort of information is known by the mainsteam fitness establishment (i.e fitness colleges etc) and incorperated into thier curriculums it is allready old news and people have allready improved on these systems!!

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Man I wish I'd known this about REPS before I sent in my app.

I'm from the States, with one of the better certs offered by our "colorful" and unregulated fitness industry, and about 10 years worth of training experience (not all of it official, but experience is experience).

I've only been in NZ since May, and was under the impression I pretty much had to be REPS-authorized to work as a trainer here.

I found out about the Les Mills "in house" policy when I spoke to them about working there - then I saw some of the things trainers are doing in there on a daily basis when I'm in there working out, and I just can't have those guys "teaching" me how to do things.

So what are the options if you don't want to deal with REPS and don't want to sit through a superfluous training course (since I'm already qualified and have the working background)?

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Man I wish I'd known this about REPS before I sent in my app.

I'm from the States, with one of the better certs offered by our "colorful" and unregulated fitness industry, and about 10 years worth of training experience (not all of it official, but experience is experience).

I've only been in NZ since May, and was under the impression I pretty much had to be REPS-authorized to work as a trainer here.

I found out about the Les Mills "in house" policy when I spoke to them about working there - then I saw some of the things trainers are doing in there on a daily basis when I'm in there working out, and I just can't have those guys "teaching" me how to do things.

So what are the options if you don't want to deal with REPS and don't want to sit through a superfluous training course (since I'm already qualified and have the working background)?

Send out your CV to different gyms or go in and see them. There are plenty of gyms out there that are allways looking for private contractors (apart from less mills). I lost all respect for les mills PTs many years ago when they started asking the cleaners that worked there if they wanted to do thier 2 week 2000$ course and then work there as PTs :shock:

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I agree Sports Girl that continual eduction is vital, as if your not upskilling, you are falling behind. But I believe how you do it should be largely up to you.

I think what Optimass was referring to was that REPS decide what courses they will accredit and which ones they wont.

I like the idea of a professional standards body, to keep PTs on the same page as other health/fitness professionals, however I think that serving REP's board members should not be able to derive an income from their courses whilst they are on the board as that could be perceived as a conflict of interest(deriving an incoming AND determining which courses provide CEC's).

haha - matrix you don't own a gym do you mate. Couldn't have said it better.

I agree with continuing education SG but thinking that you should gain credits for the amount of hours you have spent training clients. My wife is a nurse and she does attend courses etc but maintains a portfolio of experience for when she is audited by the nursing board. (I think only happens once every 5 years??). And matrix said it right - REPs direct you to their material and leave little option for those not wanting to specialise or perform their own practical study. And, If this type of regulation is so important .... why isn't Graham Henry REPs registers? Surely he must be as he is coaching/training our top team?

Like HP I gain knowledge through sharing ideas and having my ideas challenged on sites like this, reading and practising. and yet is is not recognised.

Reps publish the following benefits:

•The ability to work at a REPs Registered Exercise Facility (The majority of facilites in New Zealand will only employ REPs Registered Exercise Professionals). Having owned a club that was REPs registered by association I can safely say only 50% of my trainers were REPs registered and it didn't affect the quality of what they offered individually. Interestingly, Aerobics instructors that were provided under agreement were rarely REPs registered. REPs never followed this up as they collected a nce fee.

•Personal Trainers (PTs) have public liability and professional indemnity insurance included with registration (offering peace of mind and protection for the trainer, their clients, and any facility they may use)

How many claims have been made on this insurance last year .... ZERO. Haven't they heard of ACC? The rules don't apply here as they do in the states. REPs have been scare mongering new PTs for years with this in order to get sign ups. In over a decade I can't give one example of where a client has sued a trainer for negligence - and even if they di it would be very hard to prove.

•REPs operates an online search engine for PTs, as well as a profile/picture for each trainer, and an easy email link for members of the public wishing to enquire about using a PTs services

Thats really nice but people generally look for local gyms and their web sites to find a trainer. As a rule within 15km of where they live or where they work. Your average punter doesn't think ... I need help but before I join a gym I'll go onto the REPs web site and find me a good trainer.

•Information on key industry happenings and events through regular communications

neat!

•Discounts on ongoing education courses run by dozens of organisations

Especially those fronted by board members.

•50% discount at the National Conference GetNZ Active

Have to admit the conference is a good thing as is Business Grow but who actually goes to these events and pays full price? I.e they inflate the price to show discount for members.>

•50% discount at BusinessGrow

•Free professional email address @registeredtrainer.co.nz (more info here)

wawawa :pfft:

•Access to products and services and special rates (eg Telecom)

Most deals made can be negotiated indipendantly for better rates.

•Access to all Network Australia publications in electronic format (including magazine and resources for personal trainers and group exercise instructors), valued NZ $150. This also provides access to the FILEX conference in Sydney at members' rates (saving over $100).

Filex is a draw card but I would negotiate better deals through contacts in Oz easy enough > magazines etc you can buy of the shelf thse days ....

For the amount of money being accumulated there needs to be more benefit.

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Man I wish I'd known this about REPS before I sent in my app.

I'm from the States, with one of the better certs offered by our "colorful" and unregulated fitness industry, and about 10 years worth of training experience (not all of it official, but experience is experience).

I've only been in NZ since May, and was under the impression I pretty much had to be REPS-authorized to work as a trainer here.

I found out about the Les Mills "in house" policy when I spoke to them about working there - then I saw some of the things trainers are doing in there on a daily basis when I'm in there working out, and I just can't have those guys "teaching" me how to do things.

So what are the options if you don't want to deal with REPS and don't want to sit through a superfluous training course (since I'm already qualified and have the working background)?

Send out your CV to different gyms or go in and see them. There are plenty of gyms out there that are allways looking for private contractors (apart from less mills). I lost all respect for les mills PTs many years ago when they started asking the cleaners that worked there if they wanted to do thier 2 week 2000$ course and then work there as PTs :shock:

haha - I think if you're starting out LM isn't a bad option as you are guaranteed to get infront of clients but for an experienced trainer - contract is the best way to go. To be fair to LMs you learn to sell yourself - yo have to otherwise you get eaten up by the established trainers.

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Truth told the insurance part was the bit I was concerned about. I know it's different here, but being from the States I'm a bit gun-shy about getting sued :wink:

If it's really a non-factor then I'm gonna have to have a think on whether or not to bother. Thanks for the insight!

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Truth told the insurance part was the bit I was concerned about. I know it's different here, but being from the States I'm a bit gun-shy about getting sued :wink:

If it's really a non-factor then I'm gonna have to have a think on whether or not to bother. Thanks for the insight!

Assuming you don't break any bones and can demonstrate the correct technique you wont have any issues. You can still push a client hard and not cripple them.

I would always tell the client to feel sore after the sessions for up to 5 days ... sometime more dependant on how/what we trained. i think a lot of trainers lose clients because they dont explain this well enough ... but like I say .. have never known anyone to be sued :)

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"I would always tell the client to feel sore after the sessions for up to 5 days ... "

Thats a classic quote Optimass and sooo true.

Even a fairly low intensity leg day to an enthusiastic beginner can bring on some crippling DOMS.

I just explain the principle of adaptation and that the pain and stiffness will lessen each time...until the next change of programme.

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Truth told the insurance part was the bit I was concerned about. I know it's different here, but being from the States I'm a bit gun-shy about getting sued :wink:

If it's really a non-factor then I'm gonna have to have a think on whether or not to bother. Thanks for the insight!

Assuming you don't break any bones and can demonstrate the correct technique you wont have any issues. You can still push a client hard and not cripple them.

Oh that's no problem at all. My whole strategy is based around injury prevention and stress management from the outset.

Same for form. I cringe at some of the things I see happening at Les Mills.

The only person I hurt regularly is myself :lol:

but like I say .. have never known anyone to be sued :)

Good to know.

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ive skimed threw this forum quickly so forgive me if i ask a dumb or repeated questio. but i would love to take in the knowlege of the pt indistry/coarse, but just for personal growth not for career choice. so is there anywhere i can get the reading material books or anything close so i can fill my head with a bit more kowlege with out having to folk out to get qualification that i have no intension in using (living and settles in a small town with out numbered pts anyways)

any info would be cool, thanks :)

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The Southern Institute of Technology offers a Certificate in Sports Training and Recreation by distance and I think it qualifies for "zero fees" (all up it looks like ~$140 for materials and admin costs).

I don't know how good the course is, but it covers nutrition, physiology and anatomy, coaching, psychology and exercise prescription. Being a level 3 Cert, and apparently not accredited I don't know that it would be of much worth in terms of employment, but it might provide some useful info.

I'm tempted to enrol in a few of their courses just for personal education, rather than the qualification. With zero fees, it doesn't look like too much of an investment if I just want to get the info and not worry about any assessments.

As I said, I'm not quite sure about the quality of their courses and, if what I've seen on iTunes U is any indication, they look a little basic.

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im at NZIS.

good course.

i enjoy it, and ive been around doing work experience (as gay as that sounds) and NZIS seems to be quite reputable from what ive heard by other gyms etc. and plenty of work from ex students.

colledge of fitness is aparantly a shambles.

anyone remember that dude up in acukland who was charging people $400 for a drivers licence, without testing them? basically colledge of fitness styles with the pt course. same principal.

rock NZIS, you will enjoy it. staff are awsome, helpful and very educated.

they know their stuff

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You should ask people close to you these things. You never know how might be busy with his PT course right this minute 1day! :)

ahaha ,oh tru bro :doh: , cherz mate, wil do :wink:

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the owners of max (nzcf) were making $100,000 a year from just personal training 20 years ago how many P.T's over here make that now?

Great, so they mastered the sales and marketing aspect of the job, that is more than half the battle to being a successful PT.

Success being measured by fiscal standards not by capability.

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When we were looking for the right course I enquired with Max.

Prompt service, materiall posted out quickly. follow up phone call and a DVD of Rowena rabbitting on for ages about nothing really. Just her voice and OTT attitude would've sent me round the twist! When the dude phoned to see what feedback he could get out of me I told him this and said :" well you wouldn't like the Max College of Fitness then...its like that all the time!" :lol:

"perhaps this is not the course for you"

He was right

That blonde chick is out there man :roll: :lol:

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the owners of max (nzcf) were making $100,000 a year from just personal training 20 years ago how many P.T's over here make that now?

Great, so they mastered the sales and marketing aspect of the job, that is more than half the battle to being a successful PT.

Success being measured by fiscal standards not by capability.

and your a pro bodybuilder who trains clients out of someone elses gym not to be an asshole but success speaks for its self being a succesful P.T is about changing peoples lives for the better if your making over 100k a year thats a few lives your changing people aint guna pay if they aint getting wat they want but of course no 1 will want to do things the max way cauz that wont work aye

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the owners of max (nzcf) were making $100,000 a year from just personal training 20 years ago how many P.T's over here make that now?

Great, so they mastered the sales and marketing aspect of the job, that is more than half the battle to being a successful PT.

Success being measured by fiscal standards not by capability.

and your a pro bodybuilder who trains clients out of someone elses gym not to be an asshole but success speaks for its self being a succesful P.T is about changing peoples lives for the better if your making over 100k a year thats a few lives your changing people aint guna pay if they aint getting wat they want but of course no 1 will want to do things the max way cauz that wont work aye

Not really sure what my Pro status has to do with anything or where I choose to work? Is that meant to be a shot at me for not owning my own gym, PT studio, or PT School?

Either way it sounds like your using the fact they say they made $100k as a measure that they are good at PTing, I say it only proves they are good at selling and has no bearing on their PT skills.

Believe me I have seen first hand, as many of you have, of clients that keep on training with their PT and never look any different- so YES people will keep on paying without the results.

I speak from experience as a previously UNSUCCESSFUL Pt (financially) because I was not in the right market for my services, and wasn't selling myself the right way, this had no reflection on my skill to train or transform.

My knowledge of their (NZCF) set up is this: they hired a former employee of mine who I had fired, he was a complete muppet who not only had a drug and alcohol problem, but as a "qualified PT" from there course, used my name as a reference to get a job there- maybe their course wasn't a good enough reference to hire him from?

Further to this his idea of training was to do 1 set of bench presses a week to "keep his strength up"- did he learn this from them, then in doing so, he kept on getting injured.

Secondly, I had numerous of their students come into the fitness store I managed and they themselves frequently bagged the content of the course.

One went as far as to have three sessions with me after course hours, as he had flown in from the south island and in his words - verbatum "I've learned more from you in three hours than I have from that course in two weeks full time".

this is what I base my opionion on, if you think that changing lives is a successful PT that is your belief, mine is that you should not only "assist in achieving the clients goals" but also be fiscally successful- just as you should in any career you plan to make a living out of.

Personally I'm not making $100k (although I do know a number who are), but I am doing the amount of trade I need to be very financially independant and give me the quality of life I seek- part of the formula to SUCCESS.

The other part, achieveing clients goals- I'm doing even better at!

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ah yes your right about nzcf it was a shamble that is why it doesnt exist anymore az it wasnt being run properly and the coaches were not delivering the course properly but since it has turned to max international college for fitness professionals it is a very different place az its not so easy to get qualified anymore nzcf only use to do a single practical evaluation no written assesments no assignments so becoz of that people would just sit thru their classes take someone for a session and then be deemed q fully qualified p.t but now its a very in depth course it still is the fastest way to become qualified but by far not the easiest and the people who dont wanna put in the effort will fail not because the course was crap but because they were crap and yes the training style is very different to the conventional way people get taught but it works very well if your friend was continually getting injured then i think he was doing something very wrong but yes it isnt the place for everyone but the people that do complete the course and do what they were taught will become very successful in every aspect of personal training all I say is dont knock something until you have tried it

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ah yes your right about nzcf it was a shamble that is why it doesnt exist anymore
............................I don't know about Max so cannot make a call on their current standards so will defer to you on that, my last knowledge of NZCF was 19months ago when my former empolyee was working there.
if your friend was continually getting injured then i think he was doing something very wrong .
.........................I would suggest he was getting injured not because of technique but because he was jumping into his heaviest weights with no warm up :shock: - I understand this is what he was taught, if not then he should not have been qualified (as you have acknowledged) or their one set system is flawed.

If that is their system of one set (he was going for 10 reps) I leave to you to confirm.

all I say is dont knock something until you have tried it
................want to go for a ride down the motorway on a 1000cc motorbike without a helmet and blindfolded?- don't knock it til you've tried it :wink:

I know if i jumped into doing my ten rep max with no warm up, i'd also get injured, don't need to try to find that out.

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