Belle's Training Log

[jono]

Hi Jono,

All I can say is I'm not new to this...I've done heavy weights and low reps...believe me, I've done em to death! MAX OT was something I did a lot of last year...one of the reasons my knee stuffed up as I said. You create muscle imbalances when not doing stuff balanced. The problem with joints is, they're like anything else. You don't use it, you lose it. Very sedentary people don't have enough shock on their joints and havn't for a long time. Contrary to what people think, shock on joints does not do the damage. It's the shock on joints and weak bones that are out of condition that does the damage. Joints and bones are like muscle in the sense that they need stimulus to make them stronger. Like muscle you can't go from lifting nothing to benching or squatting 200 lbs overnight. It's the same with joint and bones. You can't just get up and run a bloody marathon or go to lunging 100 reps overnight either. Takes time and endurance to build up to that.

You cannot push heavy weights and expect your bone density and joints to cope with that. Pushing heavy weights, whilst it stimulates some increase in bone density, does not increase it as much as shock on joints and bones. They did a study a while back and found that women jumping up and down on the spot increased their bone density in leaps and bounds. So by shock I mean running and jogging or jumping and explosive movements. Like anything, you have to build up to that also. All you are doing when pushing heavy weight sorry is building muscle and strengthening ligaments some. Your not conditioning them for shock absorbency.

There is more to cardio than smooth movements of an elliptical or cycle unfortunately.

By doing walking lunges at high reps, with each step you take your not just hitting the muscle, your whole body is poised against the shock coming up your leg to the body as your foot hits the floor plus the momentum as you push off with the foot at the front--you use you body and core in all of that too. Some folks do the lunges in a stationary position but all that's doing is building muscle and does not address balance properly or the shock ability of your joints.

Many people don't want to build muscle on the legs jono until they have addressed this type of conditioning...you may have been doing it a while and have possibly always been fit. Others need to ease into it and condition themselves first before they start to build. They just want the endurance and strength together with fat loss in the first place--THEN the muscle gains can come. That only comes with high reps and moving. Yes... muscle burns fat, providing you move your ass when you've built the muscle that is. But for some if your cardio vascular strength is not up to par when you are heavy with muscle it can really put a lot of stress on your heart. So the trick is to build cardiovascular strength and endurance in joints and bones and balance all at the same time as muscular strength. Especially when your as sedentary as I was! I practically had osteo I had been that sedentary and its a big deal when your build muscle in places you dont need it and stuff the functioning of joints up. You can build all the muscle you want but it wont burn off the fat unless you move...and high reps are one way of building muscle and moving at the same time. Instead of criticising it, go do it and see what it does for you. I'll bet your ass you can't walk tomorrow after doing em. That'll show you how out of shape you are on one level anyway. To me, being in shape means in every challenge that could possibly be put to me, not just the amount of muscle I have. As long as I get out of the door and hit the gym three times a week and do my cardio, that's all I give a damn about really.

On to my workout:

All I can say is..I didn't realise how bloody unfit I am... cardiovascularly and endurance wise. All I have done is build muscle and wound up chunky and fat basically, my lifestyle needs to change to get my metabolism back the way it was as a 20-30 yo.

I explained to Tash that I had to break my workout up and just to legs on Wednesday's as my arms hadn't had time to recover and when I'm hitting upper body really hard and doing 3-4 sets, there is no damn way I want to hit them every other day. So legs today and I feel absolutely wiped out with that workout. My legs feel like jelly now, but tomorrow no doubt I will not even be able to lower myself on the bloody toilet. lol. THAT's what it's all about at the end of the day...how I get the DOMS is another story--high reps or low reps, as long as I have DOMS tomorrow, who gives a stuff how I achieved em?

Soo much for high reps not being much cop! All I can say is -try it! You don't know what your missing! LOL!

honestly i think poor form leads to injuries. the only people i have ever known to have knee problems were people with either - pre existing injuries, OR poor form on ex. that created the problem.

another point: under-developed hamstrings also can lead to knee issues.

also having more muscle, you burn more calories jsut resting than would a person with less msucle.

another point i think needs to be made is that DOMS is not a accurate indication of muscle growth. you can grow and get stronger with or without DOMS.

im going to be honest with you here, i really doubt the majority of people here could keep up with me on leg day... i know for a fact trainign partners ive had cant handle it.. im talking heavy weight you could only really do for 2-3 reps.. and pushing yourself MENTALLY to get those extra reps.. for me leg training is 100% mental effort..

legs is probably the hardest muscle group to train HARD. this is the reason that in the amature ranks.. a lot of people legs lag badly.

i can tell you right now that extremly high reps 20-30 ! like you use may work for you, but it doesnt do anything for me. for me a high rep workout is EASY..

im not taking anything away from your workouts. i think you thought i was ? im just saying.. for ME this is what i do, this is what works. and remember, everyone is different.

leg day for me is not about doms, its not about feeling sore, its not about anything else except for - to make sure the next leg day i have.. my legs are bigger, and stronger.

but .. i am a bodybuilder and my goal is to build muscle.

:grin: :grin:

[DumBelle]

In my case, it wasn't poor form that cause my knee injuries/problems. I sound intelligent enough to you to figure out a simple thing like form don't I?

lol...Hope so!

In detail:

The muscles imbalance occured because of building the wrong muscles with machines instead of doing free style and compound exercises such as squats and lunges which hit everything in perfect balance and symmetry if you do it right. Then injury occured to MCL due to car door slamming into leg at knee height (have a pajero) stretching and badly bruising the MCL. Knee was unstable but I continued to push on the muscle with high weight and less reps a week later when swelling had sort of gone down. This caused a weakness of the injured inner quad and a over growth of the outer thigh outer quad. A big NO NO. This is because the inner quad should dominate NOT the outer quad. Outer quad pulled knee cap in wrong direction over the bones every time I bent my knee 90 degrees--so in running I made it a lot worse. The knee actually clicked as I bent my leg it was that bad. Thus wear and tear occured on underside of the knee cap and when that is not corrected...osteoarthritis occurs. Only thing that corrects it is physio.

The cure? You need to quit pushing heavy weight for a start as it exacerbates the situation--the only thing your strengthening is the 'OK' muscle--the other one becomes weaker as the other dominates and does all the work. This can happen with every joint in your body not just the knee i.e. the shoulder. You have to do physio to get the inner quad muscle functioning as it should again, and then thereafter you avoid heavy weight like the clappers until your legs are conditioned properly, which is what I'm in the process of doing right now.

[DumBelle]

and I can tell you now, try a high rep workout before you assume they're easy. Point is... high reps are what you do to failure...get it? In other words if 50 reps doesnt even cut it with you, then you need to be going beyond that. It's the same principle as putting the weight up, but you simply put the reps up instead not the weight until you can't do anymore. So technically I dont think you have done a true high rep workout jono. Otherwise you'd know this much and would have really worked your leggies. Your building endurance not strength..so you have to push until you cannot do anymore or at the point of failure.

Thats why I find it funny when folks scoff at it...they really have never done it to even know how it feels the day after.

Example: If your at failure at 50 reps for squats without any weight, do three sets of 50.

Same with walking lunges. Lunge the whole length of a football field if you have to.

Same with step ups....go up and down stadium steps till your legs cannot take anymore..but well before that your heart rate will be phenominal. It is not easy.

Body builders are people that do what they need to do to get their body in the shape they desire. That sometimes involved variety.

[DumBelle]

and the best way to develop good form, is to practice something over and over again without weight first. THEN move onto weights.

[Marcus]

Any workout can be made hard no matter what weights or rep range you use.

Are we discussing how hard a high rep leg workout is or how effective it is???

[jono]

Any workout can be made hard no matter what weights or rep range you use.

Are we discussing how hard a high rep leg workout is or how effective it is???

apparently only ultra high reps is hard.

i said high reps for me is not hard.. why ? because ive done it.

why are some people so quick to judge without all the facts. not everyone is the same

[DumBelle]

Well for me personally I find both very effective. I'm not biased either way. Open mind.

You'll have to forgive me if I assumed you had not gone through a high rep workout because you were talking about the fact you could do 30 reps or so...I wasnt asking you to do what "I" can do or what I find a challenge high rep wise... I was asking you to do what YOU find hard high reps wise for a challenge. Just as you would not ask me to do what you find a challenge high weight wise---no doubt I'd kill my bloody self if I tried. I just felt you had not done a true high rep workout because had you done one, you would not be here right now criticising it to be honest.

I know some of you like to do a few exercises and be out of there, but some of us like to chop and change this stuff and add a bit of interest every now and again. I used criticise high rep stuff myself until I did it. Even Tammy says here she was sce[pticle until she tried it.

Thats because of the bad press there is out there against high rep and ALL of it absolute crap I may add.

It's a totally different bloody type of muscle I'm working here--your not hitting the fast twitch muscle, your challenging the slow twitch and it's a whole different ball game.

I could take offense or make assumptions from most of what you have posted in my journal so it works both ways doesnt it?

As I said earlier, journals are not the place to debate people's workouts and how they approach their routine and why they are doing what they are doing. I'd like not to get into a full debate about what's effective for me right now in my training right here in my journal when I already know what is going to work for me. It's men that go for bulk and size in muscle, very few women do. Let's get it straight, your a man, I'm a woman and I want small shapely muscle and you want big huge chunky muscles. I want to look elegant and you want to scare the other fella's off. I'll work out my way and to get what I want out of it, you will work out yours. All I can say is, for over a year I had this pathetic view that women should work out like a guy, but at the end of the day, I wound up looking like a fat bloody hulk. Not a good look thank you, so I changed the way I do things.

[DumBelle]

abd before you say women cannot gain as much as men can..no they cannot, but women CAN look a bit dykish if they push it too much. I like more of a figure physiche for myself and that's what I'm after.

I explained that when I push like your doing now, I gain too much but dont lose much body fat--there is rather a lot to lose, so I'd rather move my booty.

[Tammy]

Definitely think that peoples bodies respond totally differently, you put two people on the same diet and training regime and you will get 2 totally different results. It is all trial and error. I know for me personally that using low reps, heavy weights and eccentric training has worked wonders in gaining muscle, but until I sort my lower body injuries out properly I cannot do that style of training for my lower body anyway, and as I presently train by myself (and all other females in my gym think I am bloody insane, it is not likely that I will train with anyone anytime soon!!)

I just want to find out what my body responds to at the moment and reproportion my body so that I am not holding so much body fat in my lower body (oh and I want my abs back!!!).

From what I can gather, DumBelle obviously gains too much muiscle for her liking using high weight, low reps style training - (some of us would consider her to be lucky). So it is important to remember what each of us is training for when we reflect on each others journals.

Happy training everyone - whatever style it may be!

[jono]

best of luck with your goals.

.. :grin:

[Marcus]

best of luck with your goals.

Likewise.

[DumBelle]

From what I can gather, DumBelle obviously gains too much muiscle for her liking using high weight, low reps style training - (some of us would consider her to be lucky). So it is important to remember what each of us is training for when we reflect on each others journals.

Happy training everyone - whatever style it may be!

Well it's not just that... I built some muscle, and lost some fat, but I just didn't feel fit. Know what I mean? I couldn't have felt any worse in fact. I didnt even feel flexible. The more I bulked, the less flexible I felt. At one point I literally felt like I walked like a bloke. It felt weird. I enjoy feeling firmer though, but not too bulky. It scared the crap out of me when my traps popped up. lol. Oh and then my lats popped out. LOL!

I'd show you pics of what happened but they're packed up on floppies at the moment as I'm moving..been packing up stuff so that I'm not rushing around like a loon on the last minute and I reformatted my PC two months ago so they arn't on my hard drive. But just trust me on this one. When your with a Mr Bean, you dont wanna look and feel like I did. lol

[DumBelle]

Just uploaded my avatar, but you can't really see what I'm talking about.

I think I'm just used to being straight up and down with no curves and to suddenly develop them, well it takes a lot of getting used to.

I have a lot of work to do and for now I'd rather not bulk anymore than I am at present. I've gained a little since that pic with taking time out, so need to get back to that stage again before I start pushing weights heavy.

Even there I had a fair bit of body fat to shift though.

[deegee]

so what are your current goals? loose some bf? or are you just getting back into a better shape cardio vascular wise?

Anyway good ;uck with your goals and hopefuly we can track your progress.

oh and you go out with a mr bean? is he funny ?

[DumBelle]

Well for me increasing my cardiovascular strength is foremost at the moment. I feel tired a lot at the moment, and I dont think pushing weight was improving that situation.

I know that when I get my cardiovascular up and my energy levels are back at the levels they were at ten years ago that fat loss will just come naturally.

So there is a method to my madness. My metabolism has changed only because of my lifestyle changes. Not age. So that is reversible to me. I'd like to be fitter and look better at aged 45 than I did at aged 35. That's my long term goal. Short term is kind of getting my health back on track, getting my flexbility back, improving my physical conditioning and feeling good about myself.

I don't expect to get to any sort of weight as it is very difficult to workout what I really should be weight wise. I did weigh 7.5 stone in my thirties at 5ft 2" but I was in no way fit. I now expect to be happy at 9 stone as I have some mass.

[DumBelle]

I have moderate sorenes in the legs today and a lot of it is in the right places such as the inner quad. I like the wider stance and toes turned out because it hits this spot every time and this has really helped where re balancing my quad muscles out are concerned.

Backs of my knees and calves are also a little sore but hamstrings have not been hit for the last few sessions of my leg workout so I thing I'll be putting some seated leg curls into the mix next week and some SLDL's.

That'll probably hit the lower back also as Tash seems to have only given me upper back in the workout. Other than that I don't see any other tweaks I need to make to my routine for a few weeks.

Went for a walk for an hour this morning before it started to rain.

[DumBelle]

Friday's workout went well with the weights I pushed.

1500 Metres on Rower

Assisted Pull Ups (66 lbs) 3 x15 Shaking towards the last few reps.

Lat Pull Downs (Close grip) 1x15 - 20.5 kgs & 2x15 - 18kgs

Lat Stretch

10 Minutes Intervals On Elliptical

Leg Press 20kg's - 1x15 and 2x15

Tricep Curls 18kg's 3x15

Bicep Curls - 12kg's 3x15

I was going to skip the leg press today as my legs are still quite sore from Wednesday's workout, but I decided to do it in the end. Since I'm not going to be working my legs until Wednesday and I am trying to force some adaptation, I started off with 25 reps and then went back down to Tasha's recommended 15 reps for the last two sets.

I do feel a little weak in the arms almost two hours after the workout so feel I hit my arms well. Normally I do higher weights in bicep curls but felt fatigued towards the workout and dropped the weight right down as the Chin Ups seem to have already hit the biceps some leaving me with less pull. I'm not looking to more bicep growth anyway at the moment but more to train my upper back and shoulders some as my back seems to have been sadly neglected. I like the chin ups as it is a nice over all exercise which seems not to be giving my left shoulder any problems so far. I was supposed to just half my weight, but I went a little lower than half my body weight to start off on those 'assistance wise' and I seemed to cope ok. I'll stick with 66lbs for a few sessions though. Hopefully as I lose a little BF, this weight will plummet downwards by next month.

Going for a little snooze as I feel wiped out.

[DumBelle]

Been reading Tom Venuto's "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle," this morning and it's quite a good read. I'd recommend it to anyone who is working at fat loss. I'm not even a third into the book and already I am liking the guy. LOL.

I was reading it and had my 8 yo make me a cup of tea and nigh on puked when I drank some...little sod had put the kitten's pet milk in it and it tasted like cr@p. One week to go and they're back at school.

[DumBelle]

Arms, shoulders and back feel good today. Not as sore as legs were anyway. In fact my legs are still sore today so I am assuming it was the leg press yesterday. They feel as if they will be right by Monday though. I forgot to do chest press yesterday in my routine and will have to remember that on Monday.

Stocked up on supplements last night when shopping and bought some stevia tabs to give those a shot.

Supplements:

Body Trim tabs - Morning and Lunch

Gingko Biloba - Morning and Lunch

Women's Vitality Multi (Blackmores) - Lunch

Tyrosine - With Supper

Zinc, B6 and Magnesium - With Supper

Vitamin C - 2g before and 1 gram after a workouts

[DumBelle]

I have to laugh about my son putting kittens milk in my tea yesterday...costs a bloody fortune at the vet's. Cat is on better food than me at the moment. :roll:

She's cute though so I guess she's worth it.

I picked her up from some bushes and she was only 4 wks old when I found her but she is thriving pretty well on Purina 1 dried kitten food softened up with some of the pet milk. I did buy a little bottle to feed her just milk but she just kept chewing on the teat, so I started putting it in a saucer and she just laps it up. Waste of $9 really. lol.

Bottle may come in handy for some time later I guess.

Here she is... she's asleep here and she is now about 5-6 weeks old so vaccinations next week. She was absolutely loaded with fleas when I got her but advantage put paid to those.

[DumBelle]

After reading through the first few chapters of Tom Venuto's book I had to put it down and set proper goals for myself. Not just, "I want to lose fat," and be stronger but more detailed goals which I have done here for now as a reference for when I have my bad days.

In 90 Days:

1. I want to increase my cardiovascular fitness so that I can run for half an hour instead of walking for an hour.

2. I want to be able to do 15 pull ups without assistance and if I can do more I will be wrapped.

3. I want to have such strong legs that when I can do 60 Walking lunges and more before I become fatigued.

4. I want to fit all my size 10's pants and I will welcome not being able to fit into skimpy size 10 tops.

5. I want to look good in the mirror and have people respect me and my opinion when it comes to fitness and know that if I can do it, they can.

6. At the next Christmas function, my sister will not jokingly say "Show us your muscles" because she knows I train because she will be too busy picking her jaw up off the floor after I walk into her home. This will put paid to her, starvation diet mentality.

7. I wont feel tired all the time, and my libido will be something to match my physique-lol-hot!

8. I want to be 22% body fat and less...not 30% body fat and all in the wrong place!

9. I want to be less than 9 stone but look solid and well built.

10. I want a size 22" waist.

11. When I eat, I want to automatically select the right foods in category A and not be looking for something else which is category F!

(I'm sure a certain person is gonna like goal number 7 anyway).

Now I have committed myself to those goals,

[jono]

22" waist = very small :grin:

mine around 31 right now.. damn

good to see you have some specific goals

[deegee]

nice to see the goals how much is 9 stone

[DumBelle]

A stone is 14 lbs so 9x14=126 lbs

[DumBelle]

divided by 2.2 = 52.5Kgs